I still don’t really get it – walking is damn predictable. You can forget throws if you never dash unless on wakeup. And if you build your game around one aspect (i.e. wait to poke + SA3) an opponent who isn’t retarded will adapt very fast and fuck you up.
I can’t believe you guys are afraid of the jump in against Ken. SRK = parry or if they don’t throw an attack they’re gonna go low or throw – you can predict which based on the match and their style. Throw in your attacks once you get their rhythm on a jump in.
I gotta say that a slow Ken seems at a disadvantage to a fast, tricky Ken. Playing this character safe and lame is not the way to score big. It would take some serious vids to change my mind about Ken being better played slow.
And this isn’t to say you guys don’t know your stuff: this is just from my experience. Every slow Ken I’ve ever played is cake and prediactable; the fast ones can actually fight. Guess it could be different in other regions.
Have you ever seen daigo play? Just a matchvid to begin with… Walking can be predictable as hell, but so are checkmates during chess. The resemblence lies in the fact that the parrying the pokes has no good effect but your own downfall. Another thing, there’s 3 dragon punches(4 if you count in the ex), and people can vary them. And it’s easy to see wether an opponent goes for an attack or for a parry. If he goes for attack you’ll see it and dp has enough priority and speed to counter it. If he doesn’t attack you’ll see him awaiting an unblockable like c.mp xx SA3, or a throw. What Ken also can do is dash either forward or back and take action from there. The next possibillity for ken is to do an ex-hurricane in the air. I prolly missed a few but you should get the idea.
And walking steady Ken doesn’t imply slow Ken, he can land the same amount of attacks in the same timeframe without dashes. Next to that, walking might be predictable, but there you can block. Once dashes get predictable you’ll face a super. So which one do you want?
why are u guys limiting urselves so much when u post? You guys are basically saying, CHOOSE walking or dashing but u cant have both. No smart player will keep dashing in like an idiot. You mix up both. But to totally take dashes out of the equation is retarded.
Just because Daigo plays one way doesn’t mean it’s the BEST way to play that character for everyone, or the best way period. I know two people personally who’ve beaten Daigo in tourneys and they dash like mad. But saying “Daigo does this” or “This guy beat Daigo so it’s better” means nothing.
It’s all about individual players maximizing their ability, and I really don’t think every Ken on the planet can play like Daigo, so in a deep game like 3s copying his style might not be the best idea. If you’re gonna be a walker/poker you need the smartest brain and the fastest relexes ever because you aren’t creating opportunities like an active, dashy, jumpy Ken does. Most players will lose like that against other skilled opponents with Ken. He’s a beast that thrives on combos.
If a shoto was best eligle for this game plan, I’d say it’s Ryu. He’s slower, has no good cross-up but has great pokes and a kara throw/SRK. And you can try and poke all day to combo into SA1 like Ken’s SA3 if that’s the style you like.
And I can’t say I agree w/ Reaver’s assessment of Ken’s anti-air. Once you parry the dragon once it’s easy to parry the other hits. And it seems an ex-hurricane is a waste of bar – it’s not like Ryu’s where it’ll stay in one place, which is actually a good AA. And if you jump in and you don’t get attacked, the jumper just can parry low + throw (to twart their throw and prepare for c.? xx SA3 at the same time). A jumping attack shouldn’t considered an automatic faux pas until your particular opponent consistently outsmarts you on your jump ins, and if you’re a good player you can take the chance that you might end up w/ the advantage.
Maybe if all the people saying dashes are no good would post the last big tournament they won I would feel a lot better walking. A lot of NEW people play with Daigo and got there feet into the scene a bit and want to play ken like the best ken player… but just cause Daigo plays like that doesn’t mean we all can. Daigo has mad good reflexs and his mind works different. I think that dashes is fine for most characters in mid jump. Certain supers are fine also like if you know I got Yun number 3 and full screen away. I think that is you want to chase someone then you’ll probably lose to someone like Yun who’s dashing around all over the place because of walking! Srk and ex srk=parry all day for me and when you land guess what… combo to super! Walking is too much of a wait for a character who can put down anyone almost anyway he wants too. It does vary depending on who you play and how good they are but if you play two kens walking then that seems like a lot of fireballs in the match. Imagine two kens not jumping at one another and walking to one another… that’s a long battle right there and who wants to watch that? Explain please how walking is better than dashing.
But the rewards for a succesful dash are getting closer and gaining eventual momentum. The rewards for landing a cr. forward are MUCH greater. The reason people still do that stupid jiggling back and forth to land cr. forward thing is because it works in 3s. Dashy, jumpy Kens aren’t just creating opportunities, they’re also giving them away which isn’t a solid playstyle.
Have you ever played old school SF? You don’t need dashes to apply psychological pressure. You’d be surprised at how many opportunities will open by just walking towards your opponent in any SF. Simply walking towards your opponent is pressure -you’re invading their space and pushing them towards the corner. You’re in control because they have to pay attention to your movement and see if you’re in or out of range. You’re playing with them because they’re afraid to misjudge the distance and whiffing anything against Ken is scary as hell. You’re really messing with their heads without commiting to any move. Technically speaking, this is the ideal offense in 3s.
Now dash in and you immediately lose said control for a set period of time. Your opponent already knows the range and recovery of your dash so there’s nothing unpredictable about it per se. You can’t change those variables, it’s always a gamble when you commit to a dash and your opponent is able to react to it. Walking on the other hand is never a gamble, you can stop and hold d/b at any time. It can be a lot more deceptive because you have more control and can block instantly. Chun has a great dash too, so why don’t you see Chun players use it that much? Because she doesn’t need it to control the flow of the game.
Everything always comes down to risk/reward. The rewards dashing offers are good, but walking offers similar rewards with virtually no risk if your footsies are solid enough. I don’t think anyone is saying that dashing is bad, obviously it’s not that simple. Dashing has more speed and confusion potential, but it’s not all that useful aside from throw games. It’s just that walking is more reliable and works just as well. I don’t see what’s so hard to understand about it.
I played SF from the start, I know what ur talking about. But not dashing is limiting Ken. If some ppl dont like to dash, fine. I personally dont care. But as I said earlier, dashing against a lot of lower tier characters opens them up more then just jiggling.
Hahahaha, man I left this thread a LONG ass time ago, and now scrubs realize the potential of walking ken? Thank you BillyKane for explaining so nicely, I couldn’t have explained it better myself. Still though I still dash, as in dash back low forward when they are waking up, and dash for mobility, like if I hit an ex fireball. But say against Ken v Ken though, I am not going to dash AT ALL a little outside of his s.rh range or jump. As for you Paul Lee, fuck you, choi and ricky for making it so easy for pyro to get 1st. It was free money. You’re good, why didn’t you want free money?
That’s one of the things I mentioned. There is a time to dash. For example, when I play Dudley, or when I play my friend’s Dudley, I don’t dash a lot because we both whiff s. rh (option select a lot). So in this case, I would just prefer to walk up to him and start an offense off that. Same thing against people that like to whiff or jump straight up as a means of controlling their space. I never once said it’s bad to play a walking Ken. But let’s not kid ourselves and pretend that the top Ken players don’t dash as a means of offense. Cause I’ve seen the vids, and unless I somehow managed to dl only the ones where they dash, then yeah…
they dash cause they scrub out, and can’t think of options, dashing is the last option to playing a solid footsie game and when you dash and get hit by something…you just feel like a scrub. in high play though like tourney’s usually you’re nervous so like short short, dash in short short may work like ONCE, but i would use short, walk up short short, cr strong, throw, stand strong, short, whiff jab, etc. anyday
Doesn’t short, dash, short short face a roundhouse during the dash?
Ken’s EX-hurricane can actually be stronger then Ryu’s when it’s applied correctly. That means only when you jump in it won’t be a waste of bar, and afaik it’s instant hit.
The fact that parrying a dp might be easy doesn’t mean Ken can’t fuck you. You try to see wether you get one hit or 2 hit, and next to that, he can still see when you’re gonna parry.
You’re right in one aspect. It would open them up quicker, and this only applies to a player who lacks patience. Patience is key. Walking Ken and walking Chun apply so much pressure.
I dunno about that one. If you have a really solid ground game, a lot of characters can’t even get in on Ken without taking stupid risks like hoping for that miracle parry into combo.
Dashing has its applications, of course. But to dash simply to “open them up more” is silly if you already have a good thing going. That gets you killed against characters like Chun.
Ken’s dash is great, use it, but use it intelligently. That’s obvious. I don’t think people should just be like “no more dashing” or whatever, but at the same time, people need to realize that Ken’s dash is not the only way to start an attack or to cover ground or set up your throws or whatever. The better Ken players dash less often than crappy Kens because crappy Kens need the randomness to win, and dashing all over the place gives you randomness.
