On wake up, it seems blocking low is the best option. Other options seem to be parrying and srk. I am not sure throwing or any other move is actually all the useful on wake up. Are there any other that I dont know about? How do you guys feel about wake up parrying? It seems really risky. Is it worth the risk to guess parry on wake up?
What about opponent wake up? What are some of kens best moves to go for on opponent wake up besides c.mp -> super, short short supper, throws, ticks throws, chain combo, yadda yadda.
I often see high level ken players do something like c.short, standing jab, throw/srk. I have not really figured out how this works and seems like a bad idea unless it is some sort of tick throw? I dont know. I have heard that the srk combos but have never seen it done.
Basically, I am looking to improve my ken on wake ups. Any tips or advice? thanks.
Wake up jap srk might be a good idea. My friend tells me it has 0 start up, so if anyone can confirm that, that means that jab srk would be a really good option given you don’t abuse it. It knocks down, has 0 start up, and does decent damage. Strong and fierce srk might be options, too. They have to be close, because only the last hit will knock down. If you don’t get the knock down, you will eat damage after your recovery. Also, if you manage to hit with a strong for fierce srk, you can cancel in to super. Wake up throw is good because it will either tech a throw, or if you’ve abused the srk and trained your opponent to parry or block, you’ll throw him or her.
On a downed opponent, close strong fierce is a good meaty, or well I think so. I see it a lot on videos and it leads to super or jab srk. On an opponent that doesn’t have a dragon punch like move, b + forward (command overhead) or meatied UOH (or at max range so that the hit is late) is good because if it connects on a crouching opponent, you can link into super. If you’re feeling cocky, jump in and try a cross up j. forward to close strong fierce.
As for the c. short standing jab, you can use that to hit confirm into a jab srk (or tick into throw I guess). I really don’t know about that, so hopefully someone will come up with something to say. That’s about all I can think of. I hope that helps.
Low short standing jab is something I think I’m too fond of actually. Here’s basically what it does. On crouching opponents it basically acts as a tick throw but the whiffed jab makes them stay in a blocking animation even though they’re not blocking anything. And you don’t have to follow up with a throw either, short short or standing strong are good followups. It is an auto-hitconfirm if they wake up blocking high because the srk is buffered into the jab. Otherwise treat it like a normal tick.
So basically the idea is, if they are crouching, throw, if not, combo into srk.
It is pretty fast combo and I am having problems pulling it off on the xbox. I am sure the arcade and maybe even ps2 versions are a bit easier. is there some trick to getting this to work? Hit confirming the srk after both hits connect seems pretty… impossible.
Another way to look at it is just doing the srk if they are standing, which I guess is the same thing.
Wake up jab srk is a bad idea to abuse and should only be used if the opponent is dashing in, jumping in, or if you’re anticipating a throw. Good players can easily hit you meaty and then it’s a free combo right there.
For added pressure, use whiff uoh and then quickly go for the low short or throw or whatever you feel like. Also mixing up the distance is also a good idea so you’re not standing right next to them on wake up pretty much being bait for a wake up super.
Since you’re new, just practice the combo without worrying about the hit confirm at first. Just go to training mode and do it like 100+ times(no joke). Once you don’t have to worry about your execution, then put it on random block and it’ll be much easier to confirm since you’re not worried or thinking about what your hands are doing. Right now it sounds like you can’t do the combo period…that’ll make anything with that combo seem impossible. It’s really easy after some practice, and it’s pretty much the only way you can confirm a dp after a low move.(unless you’re one of the few sf players that can do it after low forward)
As for the original thread topic:
When you’re on the ground:
Blocking low and watching out for overhead/throw is pretty much the best option you can go with. If you have a gut feeling you’re opp. is going to try and hit you or throw you, then wake up DP. Don’t parry throw…that shit is for scrubs. And if you do wake up parry for some reason, make it worth the risk you took and strong dp>super or something…not just throw. Also, if you decide to wake up DP, use fierce instead of Jab. Jab dp is faster than fierce dp by 1 frame, but it is disadventagous when compared to fierce dp in many situations. For instance, you’re opp. is in a crouch next to you, you think he’s gonna walk up throw so you wake up jab dp, he walks forwards, and luckily parries the first hit and whiffs throw…but he’ll still have time to bust your ass. There are TONS of times where someone blocks the first hit of a fierce DP but gets hit by the rest on wakeup. Just remember, when you’re on the ground you’re at a disadvantage…the opp can attack before you and stuff whatever you want to do and go into a mix ups. The best way to neutralize these advantages is to block and watch for throws. However, don’t let someone walk all over you, wake up dp every once and a while if you keep getting knocked down to keep them guessing as well…even if it’s blocked, it still serves a small purpose of keeping the opp. guessing and hesitating before they attack again when you’re on the ground. There are other wake up options you have once you feel out your opp. more, but these are just basic against everyone strats.
one other thing about c.short s.jab… it can be an anti-anti-tick if they’re blocking low and you’ve trained them to expect the throw. after whiffing the jab you could throw out the SRK while they counter your tick.
i actually didn’t realize c.SK s.JP was a hit confirm until this thread, so thanks guys.
well yeah… if you know what your opponent’s gonna do you could probably parry it.
iirc the heavy shoryuken has better priority than the other shoryukens, so tacking the SA3 on lets you funnel more damage into a high priority attack. what i can’t remember is why you’d use wakeup fierce shoyu xx SA3 over plain old wakeup SA3, since afaik SA3 has good invincibility in the front anyway.
mm, i don’t think so. Ken’s low forward can only be reversed if the opponent comes out of blockstun before Ken recovers. in this case the jab shoryu keeps the opponent in blockstun.
if Ken did c.FK xx hadoken however, the opponent can come out of blockstun between the c.FK and hadoken and reversal the c.FK before the hadoken connects. there’s a YouTube of a match that demos this - Ken A does c.FK xx hadoken, while Ken B does a SA3 to reverse the c.FK. the first few hits of the SA3 connect but the hadoken eats Ken B up.
Someone gave someone else some bad info:P HP Shoryuken has 3 frames start up, it’s still the best wakeup move because Ken ducks under a lot, except crouching attacks, so if your opponent sweeps you on wakeup, he remains standing and you will fall down. s.HK and presumably s.HP seem to counter Ken’s HP shoryuken, but are not used as often as a meaty move:)
As a wakeup strat I would like to add the simple jump, can be backwards forwards and neutral, general idea is that it avoids throws with the least amount of risk.
DanD: here’s a more fun one, after wakeup opponents have 5 frames of throw invulnerability, so those frames you can’t throw. But instead of doing a tick throw, try doing nothing for 3 frames, and then throw. If you do that right your opponent will most likely option select/throw tech your throw attempt after a few times, which you then can stuff with MP,HP combo. This kind of throw game is a LOT more effective then tickthrows because your opponent has no visible setup that allows him to time a tech.