Wake Up Options and Strategy

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
1

This is a thread about wake up game of Chun li.

Her wake up and the wake up of the opponent

For me a wake up is when you down or when you are in hit airborn and touch the ground after on your feet (with a flip). So the same thing apply to the opponent.

But before i have to link this thread.

Safe Jump-in Guide

“You can time a jump-in meaty enough so that it will force the opponent to block if they don’t reverse, but if they do reverse, you can land quickly enough to block their reversal”

First thing to know is learn to use them and learn to recognize them because the famous reversal ex sbk can be beaten by those safe jumps.

Chun li is Knockdown or in a flip mode

The first thing is to list option about what you want to do

With damage on your opponent
[LIST]
[]Crouch Medium kick cr mk on wake up
[]Hazan Shu
[]Ex SBK
[]Ex Hazan Shu
[]Ultra
[]Super lk version[/LIST]

With no damage on your opponent
[LIST]
[]Block
[]Tech throw
[]Crouch tech throw
[]Backdash
[]Focus backdash
[]Jump
[]Crouch medium kick
[]Ex Hazan Shu
[/LIST]

Damage options will work only if the opponent doesn’t block because try to attack or throw you but some throw and some attacks can beat your damage options

-----Crouch medium kick

I send you to the thread about that

[cr mk on wake up

But the good thing to know is you can dodge some jump attack and punish cross up too.

**Its works **if the jump attack is not deep because crouch mk lower the hit box of chun li.
A normal jump can hit you deep so even you do a cr mk, you can be hit but the good news is that a cross up jump attack is different.
If he wait, he can whiff so he better to hit early and not deep

A good example here at 06 : 23
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm7567595](http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=203709) or http://gamenyarth.blog67.fc2.com/blog-entry-4926.html?id=sm7567595 (if you don’t have nico nico account)

At the beginning of the first round :
Chun li and blanka jump and meet in the air, chun li lose and go in flip mode. Blanka land before and rejump to cross up her like a meaty cross up.
She choose to do cr mk on her wake up (flip mode) and dodge the attack and hit blanka in the same time when he land.

The purpose, is to avoid the meaty cross up because even it’s easy to block, when you are in block stun, you are like a prisoner. Blanka can continue a combo on the ground and start some mixup so the purpose is to escape block stun.

It’s good to know when for example, you don’t have a lot of life and your opponent try to put in block stun to do some cheap damage after that.

Ken, blanka, Dictator/Bison, Gen love that

----- Hazan Shu LK

Hazan shu is like a short jump. The start up of the move cannot be throw so if you predict a throw, instead of try to jump or tech throw, you can use that and punish the whiff throw.

Its works because a throw works only if you are on the ground and with a hazan shu you are airborn since the beginning. Even a meaty throw cannot grab you i think (if you do a reversal of course)

The purpose is to avoid a grab and punish quickly cause an hazan shu ( LK version) hit in 23 frames. No throw can recover before that

The bad thing is that if you predict wrong and your opponent did an attack you will lose. If he block you are safe (except versus gief)

That is very useful versus abel who love use tornado throw and tornado throw ex.
Specially when you land after a flip mode

----- Ex SBK

I don’t know what to write about this move.

I use it often when my opponent is in the air when i wake up but often a cross up jump beat this move or worse he have time to land and block.
So now, i started to notice how my opponent jump on me before i use it.
In fact you have to use this move only if your opponent doesn’t jump meaty on you.
Of course this move beat throw, and some attack so you can use it also on grounded opponent but you never know if he will block.

About safe jump, i know that’s often after a throw or a sweep because you cannot quick standing so your opponent know exactly when you will wake up.

For example, if you ryu throw you (forward grab) and take a step back and jump after, it’s definitely a safe jump. Even for ken

Another example, if chun li grab you (forward throw) and take a step in forward then, it’s a safe jump too.

And Dictator, if he grab you (back throw), dash forward, jump, it’s a safe jump too.
If he do the same thing but with the forward throw, it’s a meaty cross up which stuff ex sbk too.

The best will be to list all of them :slight_smile:

----- Ex Hazan Shu

I like this move to punish some meaty fireball on your wake (when the opponent is in the range of course)
This move have 14 frames of invincibilty so it’s the best move to escape far meaty attack and strike in the same time

The good is that the move doesn’t need charge and when you don’t have an ultra, a lot of shotos love do a meaty fireball and forget this move.

The bad is that if you whiff you can be punished

This move hit only grounded opponent

----- Ultra and Super (lk)

About the super lk version, this move have 3 frames of invincibility.
It’s not a lot but it’s better than only 1 frame ( MK and HK version)

Watch out about the ultra. If fei long or boxer try to cheap you on your wake up, her ultra will lose even if you launch right after them.
Chun li is invincible during 7 frames and fei long and boxer during 11 frames

Always on chun li’s wake up

No damage options : Some escape normal attack, some escape cheap damage, some escape block stun and others escape throw

----- Block

Nothing new but to block you have to know where to block.

Some characters like boxer can jump on you while you recovery and you just don’t know where he will land. You know only when you wake up and since boxer has rapid fire jab, if you guess wrong, you take a big combo.

I have a good friend who play boxer and explain me those ambiguous jump

Here is an example
[media=youtube]vEvfb-9YE4k[/media]

at 00 : 20, just after the headbutt, boxer jump and they are near the corner, you can think he will cross up viper but that not the case and you can see it only when viper wake up. So the reason viper eat those jab is i think cause she block in the wrong way

At 01 : 52, just after the throw, boxer dash, and do a step before he jump. He land just when viper wake up and now it was a jump cross. Viper eat all the jab (again) and take a big combo with super. After that he do dash and a step but this time this jump don’t cross up and again Viper eat all the jab.

My friend tell me also he can choose to cross up or not if he jump empty, jump with HK or jump with HP. Jump with hp travel more that jump empty

Here is a video with gouki vs Sagat. I don’t know if it’s works on chun li but i wanted to point this too.
[media=youtube]DquI8rgPK7U&feature=related[/media]

At 06 : 20, the first round show how gouki/akuma can be ambiguous with his jumps. Cross or not cross up

----- Tech throw and crouch tech throw

The good thing is you can block and escape a throw in the same time

The bad thing is that some character like Rufus and cammy can trap you with an instant jump dive kick who will result in a whiff throw and a whiff crouch lk.

In fact those techniques are vulnerable to a jump, a backdash or an instant back jump attack (chun li can do that) and of course special throw faster than a normal throw or which cannot be thrown

Example : Tornado throw (cannot be thrown), SPD (faster), Ultra and super of zangief (faster), demon flip grab version of gouki (cannot be thrown)

----- Backdash

The backdash of chun li takes 22 frames, it is invincible during the 8 first frame and she is airborne after the end of the invincibility

Since you can backdash on wake up, you avoid meaty attack, cheap damage and throw.
For example, ryu want to beat you with cheap damage because you have 0 life. He choose a dragon punch to force you to block but with a backdash you avoid this.

Until you are not in block stun, you are not forced to block. But once you choose to block, you cannot escape except if the combo end.

The purpose of the backdash is a way to keep the control of your character.

But you can be punished.

When a character safe jump on chun li and she choose to do back dash, the opponent have the time to land and hit her with an other move.
So be careful on safe jump again.

Here an example with Daigo vs Nemo
[media=youtube]e-TFyq7J16Q&feature=related[/media]

Quality is not good but you can see at 02 : 20, daigo hit nemo with his super, he wait a little (he whiff a dragon lp) and jump on nemo with HP.
It’s a safe jump and nemo choose to backdash but instantly a dragon hp come out when Daigo landed

Of course, its works only if the safe jump is timed well. On a normal jump (not meaty), if you choose to backdash, ryu cannot hit you with a dragon punch

Here again an example with Daigo vs Nemo (again) at 02 : 20 (again lol )
After his super he wait and jump on nemo but this time nemo block the jump. So daigo grab him. He wait a little and jump again (safe jump) but i think he jump too late cause nemo did a backdash and this time the dragon punch whiff.

And a last example with Chun li vs Akuma

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm7905551 or http://gamenyarth.blog67.fc2.com/blog-entry-4926.html?id=sm7905551 or http://gamechariot.com/08movie_SF4.html ( best quality, the 2nd video but the video will disappear soon )

In the first round, after his first sweep gouki do a demon flip meaty and grab her.
After the grab he wait a little and redo a demon flip meaty.
This time Chun li try to escape with a reversal backdash but Akuma punished her with a sweep when he land

----- Focus Back Dash

The trick is that you can wake up with a focus and choose to back dash after.
Of course focus give you some damage but unlike the back dash, a focus back is like a block (without the stun) + a back dash.

The purpose ? What Daigo did to nemo just before don’t work anymore. Because his jump attack will not whiff so ryu stay a little more in the air because he hit chun li.

That’s good also versus cross up because when some cross up you on your wake up, you cannot back dash, you have to forward dash and forward dash, doesn’t have invincibility.

But with a focus back dash wake up, you do a focus and to absorb the cross up and after that you can back dash cause your opponent is now in the other side.

Is it a way to avoid block stun when some like close you.

Here an example Chun li vs Dictator (no pro players, it’s me in a tournament in my place)
[media=youtube]led45uo9ZNQ&feature=channel[/media]

At 03 : 40, Dictator try a cross up and i escape with a focus follow by a back dash.
You can see when i do the focus, chun li is in the “wrong” way but after she did a backdash.

At 07 : 58, Dictator grab me and put me in the corner. He jump forward on me, so like that i am sure it’s a cross up and i do again

At 08 : 25 Dictator grab (forward version) and dash, step and jump. So his jump will cross up.
Perhaps a normal back dash works but with focus back dash, you have more security i think because if your backdash become forward dash, you will be in trouble

----- Jump

There are forward jump, back jump and straight jump.

When Chun li try the cross up DF HK on you, you can wake up, jump up and avoid it.
You can punish throw with an instant back jump attack on your wake up if you predict it.
Don’t know if jump forward is useful but i already seen Daigo (Ryu) use it on his wake up

----- Ex Hazan Shu

In fact you can use his invincibility startup to avoid cheap damage in the case or :

  • You cannot backdash safely
  • You forgot to charge for the Ex SBK
  • You cannot jump safely
  • When Ex SBk cannot save you

Some example, chun li do an ultra on you, and you forgot to charge so no ultra or Ex SBK. With hazan shu you avoid the ultra safely
If you try to jump, you will be hit in airborn. Same thing apply to a meaty ultra or special like the ex messiah kick, a far fireball, the ultra of blanka at the beginning, etc

Of course it’s only if you have 0 life or if cheap damage will beat you

----- Crouch medium kick

Sometimes, the crouch medium kick will just dodge but don’t hit your opponent. So don’t expect to hit always

Ok i think i have list the options i know when chun li is knockdown

Now what can she do when his opponent is down ?

PS : i speak french usually… :sweat: so sorry if you don’t understand well.

2

You knocked down your opponent, what next ?

Ok, You just succeed to score a Knockdown on your opponent, you are happy but a little worried in the same time because you don’t know what to do.

Here is some options.

I will try to organize them in several group.

[LIST]
[]Fake options[/LIST]
[LIST]
[]Safe options[/LIST]
[LIST]
[]Risky options[/LIST]
[LIST]
[]Jump options[/LIST]
[LIST]
[]Ground options[/LIST]
[LIST]
[]Character specific options[/LIST]
[LIST]
[]Reaction options[/LIST]
[LIST]
[]Mr Nemo options :china:[/LIST]

Again what i means by wake up is when your opponent is knocked down or in flip mode (airborn)

Fake Options

For me fake options is when you do something with chun li to bait the opponent.

You forced him to do something without hurt him really. It’s a trap in fact.

_ _ _ _ _Hazan shu Whiffed

It’s all about the timing but the purpose is to make your opponent think that Chun li is in bad position because of this whiff.

After a cr lk, cr lk, Ex LL, if you do a instant Mk hazan shu, you will land close to your opponent but you recovery just in time to block any attack or throw normal if your opponent choose to quickstand

Of course don’t use this versus characters like, Abel, Gief and Honda because you cannot tech throw special move

But versus ryu, you have time to block a reversal dragon which is one the fast move in the game.

An other example, i have seen on a video

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm7567595 or http://gamenyarth.blog67.fc2.com/blog-entry-4926.html?id=sm7567595 (same video of the first post but other example)
Chun li vs Blanka

At 06 : 49 Chun li air throw blanka and do an instant Hazan Shu Lk.
At 07 : 20 Same setup again

She is close to Blanka, first reflexe if i was blanka, is not to use a roll attack but instead try to throw her or use electricity or start a combo.
But it’s a trap and she has the “advantage” after, so she can use a meaty attack and beat a throw attempt or electricity.
Though in those example, Blanka stay in guard

At 09 : 00 she use that setup (air throw follow by hazan shu) versus dictator to bait a psycho crusher

_ _ _ _ _Focus attack cancel into dash

Nothing new, everybody knows that but i just seen a video recently of a “new way” to use that.

Generally, we do a focus and back dash to fake an attack

Problem with that, often you don’t take the risk to start this focus to close to your opponent so your opponent can safely do a backdash to avoid your focus if you don’t fake it.

But if we are closer of him, can he take the risk to do a back dash to avoid the focus? I’m not sure.
But in the same time, if we are closer, our fake focus backdash can be punish even if we have the invincibility of the backdash so it’s risky for both of us.

And here is perhaps the solution :

In fact in this video

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm7983624 or http://gamenyarth.blog67.fc2.com/blog-entry-4926.html?id=sm7983624

You can see Dragon Boy (playing with abel) use his focus at close distance but instead of backdash to cancel it, he forward dash

At 18 : 35 he made that two times in a row !!! and boxer was trapped each time

Amazing when i first was this.

But if you compare Forward dash vs backdash :

"If the dash (back or forward) was canceled from a Focus Attack (Lvl 1 or 2), the game will subtract 1 frame from the character’s dash. In other words, it reduces the recovery of the dash.

That’s means with chun li back dash = 21 frames instead of 22 and Forward Dash = 14 instead of 15

The most important is the difference of the recovery. With forward dash you recovery faster though you are not invincible.

I think the trick is : Since your opponent don’t see you backdash he can be fooled by that and try to punish you. Of course it’s about timing and it’s better to use that versus people with a slow reversal like :

Dictator with a scissor kick which has 10 frames to hit or Psycho crusher with 14 frames.

Boxer with head butt between 8 and 12 frames or ultra with 10 frames

But you can perhaps try that versus ryu with an other timing, why not ?

When use that ? I think sometime you score a knockdown and you are already close to him (like abel did it), i think it’s the best moment to try that

_ _ _ _ _A Whiff Throw

Though i don’t use that, i think that can be cool when you are out of idea. You whiff and it’s the best way to push your opponent to punish you.
I think it’s good versus abel, and gief cause they will try to use their special throw move to beat you

It’s a way to suggest them an attack.

Jump options

Chun li is good to start combo with jump attack but how jump when she is so slow in the air ?

_ _ _ _ _ Safe jump

Again here is the link about Safe jump
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=180482

Safe Jump is all about timing. You have to jump in the right time to bait the opponent attack and block it.

What is cool about safe jump is if he try to punish you, you have the time to block but in the same time, if he do nothing he is forced to block.

It’s completely different of the whiff hazan shu for example.

This time you attack him for real and he must block or use a reversal move to escape or try a backdash.

What is the setup ?

First of all :

With Chun li, i didn’t succeed to safe jump easily on character with a move who hit in 4 frames :

Akuma (Dragon and ultra)
Dhalsim ( super and ultra… O_o)
Guile (Flashkick and Super with LK)
Ken ( all his dragon except his Ex version which takes 5 frames to hit)
Dan ( Dragon an super)
Gouken ( high counter)

2 Exceptions Gief and claw when i succeed to safe jump of them though their move lariat and scarlet terror come in 4 frames. In fact those move have no invincibility and the jump attack stuff them :smiley:

ABout abel, his tornado throw Ex will beat any safe jump and i think a SPD Ex of gief too.
About the ultra of Dhalsim, the trouble is that dhalsim is not invincible so your jump hit him and yous stay more longer in the air, plus you are pushed back you eat his big fireball.

Same thing about Dash ex with boxer, even if this move is slow, you hit boxer and stay a little in the air so he catch you before you can block.

So the setup is : throw forward, walk forward one step and jump forward with an attack.

Normally, with this timing, you can safe jump on every move with 5 frames and more. So Sagat cannot do anything with his tiger uppercut.

**
Edit: I just found a way to safe jump on move with 4 frames to hit. But it’s very special.**

Always after a throw, instead of walk, just crouch quickly and jump forward.

The first method (5 frames safe jump) is more easy and the second method is if you want to jump on Guile (Flashkick), Dhalsim (super), Ken (dragon lp and mp) and Boxer ( Ex dash straight)

_ _ _ _ _ Jump Safe or Secure Jump

We just seeing, we cannot safe jump on some characters.
So instead of safe jump on them, why not jump safe ^^ ?

I was looking at a video of Uryo with Chun li (yes the famous viper ^^) and after a throw forward on ryu, he just dash forward and jump with lk.

You could see that here at 07 :00 http://zoome.jp/sf4_esaka_navel/diary/22/

If ryu try a reversal dragon, the jump lk beat him (Ex dragon will whiff tough) because at this moment chun is on the top of head of ryu. She is at the limit of the cross up so the dragon reversal go in behind her and ryu is vulnerable to his head.

If i resume, with this setup you beat all the dragon (ryu, ken, akuma, Dan)

You can use that on Sagat and the cool thing is you can use HP instead of LK. If he try a tiger uppercut, it will whiff.

I think it’s work on Guile too.

But the bad news is if the choose to block, you touch them too early and when you land you don’t have the advantage. Don’t try that on gief, he will SPD you as soon as you land

Other setup to jump safely on Shoto is to jump with the first timing ( step + jump) but instead of attack in the air, just jump empty.

When you jump empty, the game let you block as soon as you land so like that you can block any move which hit you in 3 frames.

Here is the proof : [media=youtube]Jfu7b-1zYMI[/media]

At 00 : 40 Dictator throw back ryu, do a dash forward and jump with hp. He trade with the dragon reversal lp of ryu. It’s normal because you cannot safe jump on Ryu. But

At 01 : 13, he do the exact setup and instead of attack he just empty jump. Ryu do a reversal dragon and Dictator block it.

You can even escape Ex tornado throw, Ex SPD, Ultra of Gouki with an instant Hazan shu when you land.

You are safe on the ultra of Dhalsim too because you don’t touch him.

In fact it’s the best secure jump but unfortunately, you jump empty so no threat for your opponent.
It’s a jump to bait a dragon but if he guess you empty jump, he can just throw you when you land.

Si i was wondering, how bait a dragon but in the same time jump safely.

So here is the last setup i found. You throw forward again, you jump forward instantly and you attack in the air with a big attack.
With this setup you land before he wake up so your attack whiff and you have to hope your fake attack will suggest him to do a reversal dragon.

_ _ _ _ _ Cross up DF + RH

After a Knockdown (forward throw or Cr RH), i think the best is to dash forward and use this cross up. I notice with this timing, you move is not meaty but you escape dragon reversal.

In fact this move (for me) is not good when it hit meaty cause the dragon reversal will touch Chun li but with dash forward, this timing put you just on the top of you opponent when he wake up so you are safe from Dragon.

_ _ _ _ _ Instant Jump Back HK

Instant overheard :slight_smile:

_ _ _ _ _ Instant Jump Forward / Up Stomp

I heard, you avoid Reversal dragon with that and it’s an overheard too.

Nice versus player who love stay in defense

- - - - - Safe Options

For me, it’s when you use an option to attack your opponent and it’s “safe” for you. It’s safe when you don’t take a lot of risk.

For example you trade or you win but if you trade it’s in your favor.
Or you safe jump, etc

Safe options are more characters specific and it’s depends of the Ex meter of your opponent.

_ _ _ _ _ Kikoken

I just see a Chun li use a good option.
After a cr lk Ex LL, throw an instant Mp kikoken follow by an hazan shu.

If your opponent choose to quickstand, the kikoken will be meaty and force him to block. And since he is in block stun, he cannot punish your hazan shu.
So it’s a safe options. Because when he quickstand, he don’t know a hazan shu will come so. If he eat the kikoken, your hazan shu will combo.

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm7567595 or http://gamenyarth.blog67.fc2.com/blog-entry-4926.html?id=sm7567595 ( same video that the other example with blanka but this guy or girl is pretty good lol ^^)

In this video, Chun li use that after a crouch HK, but he works also after a cr lk EX LL if your opponent quick stand

- - - - - Risky Options

Anything you try with Chun li lol

- - - - - Ground Options

It’s not my cup of tea, but it’s about meaty attacks

- - - - - Reaction Options

I’m not sure about that, but when i look the match between Nuki and Daigo in the Daigo Concept 2, it’s look like Nuki stay near Daigo when he wake up and do meaty option when he is sure daigo will not use a dragon reversal.

It’s look like Nuki know the timing of a dragon reversal or know how ryu wake up and know when to input a throw or a cr jab after the threat of the dragon reversal is avoid.

Like that if a dragon come, he is on block. I don’t know if it’s possible though

:cybot: :cybot: :cybot:

Perhaps it’s just mind game and he don’t see nothing

- - - - - Flip Mode Options

I don’t know a lot options when you win in the air and land just before your opponent.

- - - - - Character Specific Options

I will try to give some options i use more particularly vs characters

- - - - - Nemo Options

Thx to Nemo and Azrael, go to the page 61 of topic strategy and matchup

For finish i don’t know yet a good use of that but i notice something strange :

3

With the opponent knocked down, Chun’s best weapon is meaty df+rh IMO. However, its use is matchup dependent because it depends on the opponent’s hitbox. It’s very useful against fatties like Rufus and Sagat, and difficult to use against Cammy/Sakura. The great thing about it is that it can hit like a crossup but Chun still lands on the other side… making it very confusing for the opponent.

4

Thank you I’ll try them out. I personally find jump-in’s are the most difficult to deal with. I tried to copy what I’ve seen from Nemo’s video but I just can’t seem to pull it off. Approx. 4 out of 10 games are laggy (I play on PC) and make things even more difficult.

It’s hard to time right for me to jump in as well. Chun stays in the air for so long and I don’t know just when/how to jump in unless the opponent is a tall character and in a corner.

5

Yes, knowing how to jump with chun li is hard.
His cross up is fine but with the good timing too

6

I’m not sure what you mean by this, but you can’t avoid a meaty df+rh with a jump.

7

Yes true, but a meaty cross up is not good for her.

Meaty cross up = free reversal dragon for the shoto.

If chun li is on the right and me on the left, i just have to do a dragon toward the right and he will come like a reversal in the other way.

I’m not sure but i think the problem with a meaty cross up with Down forward HK (DF HK), is that the cross up come at the last time.

Dime talk about that in an other thread.

I will try to found this

8

As far as I know, a properly timed df+rh won’t get hit by a DP (reversal goes the wrong way, delayed comes out too late)

9

Ok i have updated my 2nd post ^^

Amro, like you said if it’s properly timed, it’s not meaty anymore.

I’m 99 % sure that if you use DF RH meaty, you lose easily to a dragon reversal even if your opponent did the input in the wrong way

10

Cool thread cnul. You should put some of your tricks here and you will basically have a Cnuls guide to Chun li thread. Good stuff. :china:

11

good stuff man very nice read

12

Yeah but I’m fairly certain that you can’t jump out of that one unless you jump back.

13

lol amro, i will try to make a video, you will see :stuck_out_tongue:

Thx KingRaoh and PachiAfro. I love rush on my opponent but as you can see. I just watch videos and inspire me from what i see ^^

14

c_nul

Thank you for taking the time to write all of this down.

Some of the things in here are new to me, and it made me realize that I am wasting a lot of safe jump chances after I land a throw.

:china:

15

Nice thread.
As someone who is just starting to take learning chun li seriously I have the say the chun board is most informative board on here from the ones ive looked at.

16

The way to deal with anti-srk timed df+rh is just walk out of it backwards.
Most people try to throw punish it, which is techable, but you have guaranteed punish as she hit’s the ground.
Generally df+rh against shotos isn’t a strong choice unless they’re in the corner so that they can’t srk it and they can’t walk out of it.
Though it works good against Sagat in neutral game imo since he walks too slowly and his shoryuken is easier to avoid with it.

17

Great stuff man, it’s nice to read all the logic behid each of the noted options. My new thread of attetion for the week.

18

That’s why it’s good to mix it up with j. lk which would tag them. Most people don’t pay attention to Chun’s animation, though after this mixup they probably would.

19

Is it worth to score a knockdown on Shotos ?

After reading the last thoughts of Dime about cr lp x 3 and st hp, i was wondering is it a good plan to knockdown them ?
First weapon of shoto is for me the Dragon but the dragon hit often when it is reversal (if chun guess wrong).
If chun li can build a plan anti dragon, then we can piss shoto off.
Give a knockdown to a shoto and he thanks you

My thoughts :

  • First forget those moves : Ex Legs, Sweep, Throw, Ex SBK

  • Focus on moves or setup to hit hard without ending by a knockdown :

Far HP = 100 damage, hit in 6 frames, +3 on hit, good range

Far HK = 100 damage, hit in 11 frames, - 1 on hit, good range

Close HK = 100 damage, hit in 4 frames, + 2 on hit. Nice for reset setup ?

Close HP = 90 damage, hit in 4 frames, - 3 on hit. Big hitboxe, can catch opponent in air easily so nice for setup reset ?

Jump HK = 100 damage. Nice to start a combo. Good for anti air in air ^^

Hazan shu = 100, 120, 150 damage. Safe on block !! Hazan shu hk hit hard like a Dragon (160 damage)

In fact any moves of chun li which doesn’t lead to a knockdown

  • If you score 1000 knockdonw during a round, you have to guess right 1000 times. If you score only one knockdown during the same round, you can be sure the shoto will take his chance to reversal dragon because he is “sad” without dragon :D. He will be starve

  • A Knockdown give time to think. The shoto don’t have to think fast and during the knockdonw, he is safe.
    But a setup with no knockdown make the life hard for a shoto.

  • Work on/ find/ test nice reset setup SAFE :
    Reset setup where the shoto land at good range. Too far to be hit by reversal dragon but close enough to be hit by the Leg or hand of Chun Li if he forget to block

So my point is don’t give the shoto what he like ( Reversal Dragon).

  • If he whiff a dragon lp, dont rush on him to punish, it’s probably a bait. I learn that hard :wasted:
20

Very nice stuff. I have to admit, depending on the character, I either df+RH, dash jump fierce or just try to bait a shoryuken. But I’ll have to see, I especially like the not giving a shoto a knockdown to think lol. Thanks for the help~~