I often hear “don’t press buttons on wake up, if you eat a throw it’s not the end of the world”, but now I’m hearing that wake up jab is a good option.
Why?
Doesn’t it lose to most things your opponent can do?
Depends on what you’re opponent does and if you have a fast enough (3 frame) jab.
Then please correct me where I’m wrong…
- Your opponent does a meaty attack - you lose
- Your opponent throws you (meaty) - you lose
- Your opponent shimmies and presses a medium or heavy button - you lose
- Your opponent neutral jumps - you probably lose
- Your opponent blocks - you win, but it’s not a huge victory, you just create a little space and relieve some pressure
- Your opponent mistimes a meaty - you win
To me, it doesn’t seem like a lot can go right if you’re mashing jab on wake up.
Wake up jab is not a good idea if the opponent is on top of you. Consider it if the opponent has to dash to get to you but otherwise I just block.
3 frame jabs are the hardest to meaty. The chances of messing it up is surprisingly high which in turn makes wake up jab more reliable than it should be. If you play, Chun, Necalli, Karin, and some other people, then it isn’t a bad option.
2, 3 and 4 are a bit more questionable. Shimmying a throw and shimmying a 3 frame normal are a bit different since the 3 frame normal is gong to give them less time to react properly. 3 frames and 5 frames for throws are a world of difference; additionally unless the attack is meaty, you could potentially stuff it with some of the jabs. On the neutral jump scenario the recovery is usually fast enough that you might be able to block in a lot more scenarios tha nyou think.
So when you consider all of this and that the can’t mess up the set up at all, you see why so many people get hit by Necalli’s Standing Jab xx V-Trigger.
Thanks, it’s a lot more clear now.
So I think both of you are saying - if the opponent has to dash to get to you or your opponent is a little sloppy with his meaty set ups, a 3f jab is a legit, viable wake up option.
Wake up jab is more legit online. Trying 2 meaty Chun with her 3 frame jab online can be difficult. Offine it’s not 2 bad
3 frame jabs are incredible on wake up in SF5 because they were meant to be. Viscant explains in this article https://www.brokentier.com/blogs/brokentierblog/97122561-hit-the-ground-running-10-wake-up-jab
Meaties are not as good on SFV as they were in past games. Very few characters have moves with long enough meaty frames to get an easy meaty. The desingers wanted to reduce setplay so they designed wakeup jabs to be the correct answer to people applying meaty pressure. So you are wrong on 1-5
Dunno about a lot of other characters since I’m a scrub at SFV, but Ryu, Necalli, Ken, Chun Li, Laura, Mika all have easy to execute meaty setups on quickrise, with Necalli and Ryu also having something on backrise.
Meaties on delayed wakeup usually involve the risk of mistiming them but it’s also not that hard.
Mostly I see people getting jabbed and shit if they dash too often after a knockdown and they don’t realize they’re heavily minus in terms of frame advantage.
My point is basically that mashing jabs is a high risk in SFV unless you know exactly what you’re doing.
Watch Tokido’s pool play for example. That guy destroys people with meaty pressure and safe jumps. The guy has every wake-up option covered when he scores knockdowns.
I dunno where ur getting ur info from but meaties beat jabs 100% of the time if they r timed right which honestly isn’t that hard, every character has access 2 at least 1 gd meaty button and they beat jabs and throws only thing they lose 2 are dps
To be fair you have 3 wakeup options in SFV. That alone makes for less meaty opportunities than in older games.
It really depends on the situation. Not all knockdowns arise from sweeps and throws. There is no universal meaty that can beat wake up buttons. For example, some characters are negative (!) after throws, or they leave the opponent at a range where the only way a move would connect is after moving forward, which of course kills the possibility of a meaty. Then of course there’s awful scenario that arises when counter hit attacks cause much higher push back than normal attacks, which causes the opponent’s combo from a meaty to fail and leaves them wide open for punishment.
The whole “time your meaties better” response is just a knee-jerk reaction without much thought behind it. There are situations where wake up buttons are a good idea in SFV.
Pretty sure I’m right, it’s just harder to execute 1-5. A meaty will beat a wake up jab. A shimmy will beat a wake up jab, etc. If I were wrong, then wake up jab would beat everything in the game aside from invincible moves and people would be mashing it 95% of the time.
Crush counter. Each character will have one crush counter normal that can cover the distance. If your character has a standing roundhouse that doesn’t whiff when someone ducks you good to go. Even those are good if someone wants to wake up with a backdash or jump.
Nash has amazing meaties on quick rise, back rise, and no rise. I agree. Mashing jabs is a terrible idea on wakeup. No matter what Viscant said.
Eh…meaties are good, they’re just easy to fuck up. You have to make the decision of going for the meaty as soon as you are done with the combo because of quick rise. A lot of people miss them because of slight hesitation on their end.
The pay off from meaties varies wildly though; unsurprisingly the characters with the best hit confirms get the most out of doing meaties.
- Yes.
- Maybe. Meaty throws aren’t easy in this game. 3f jab is still a good option vs throws.
- You don’t shimmy jabs. The idea when you shimmy is to bait the throw in SFV. How do you react to a 3f jab to punish it? Just meaty if that’s the case.
- How would you lose? Jump frames are super long compared to 3f. You could 3f then AA and still win. You have time.
- Win is a win. It’s about turns. You just made them give up their turn.
- Yes.
Like many things, it all comes down to how you’re reading the fight. Wakeup jab has better coverage vs your command throw characters. Many pros love the wakeup jab. Haitani was only wakeup jabbing instead of DP at one point lol.
- If you’re shimmying to bait a throw, then why even bothering shimmying? Wouldn’t a meaty beat a throw anyway? And I didn’t mean that you’re reacting to a 3f jab, but if you shimmy out of a jab range and throw a stronger button, you will hit them (because of longer range and priority), correct?
Shimmying beats reversal and delayed tech (a throw). Meaties lose to reversal, and won’t punish delayed tech.