Wake-up frames

Classic Fighting Games SSF2T: HD Remix
1

I was perusing T. Akiba’s data when I came across this tidbit:

“After being knocked down, you can not be thrown for the first 13 frames after getting up.” (translation)

Does this mean that if you are standing over a knocked down opponent, they have a full 13 frames worth of throwing advantage? That would seem to explain a lot. If this is true, I assume the reason normals are still beaten by the throw is becasue even the jabs have more than 13 frames startup? That doesn’t sound quite right as 13 frames is just under 1/4 a second and jabs are really fast.

Can someone rectify this for me?

Also, I seem to notice a frame disadvantage when it comes to throwing for someone landing from the air. Is this real, or just percieved on my part?

Finally, for example, it says that Honda takes 87.5 frames to get up. With the .5 meaning that he’s able to jump on the 87th frame, but a meaty will still wiff on the 88th frame. Is this the so-called “reversal frame”? The one where a throw beats the best-timed tic? Can I get a fuller explanation on this?

I posted this over at XBL forums, but something tells me I may get a more complete answer here.

2

You cannot be thrown for 13 frames after getting up. You can still be attacked, though - this is why meaty attacks work. The reason someone can grab you out of repeated jabs on wakeup is because throws are instantaneous, not because you have +13 frame advantage. The reason someone can grab you out of a throw attempt on wakeup is because you have 13 frames where you can’t be thrown.

IIRC, air attacks have 1 frame of recovery when they hit the ground (this is the “trip guard” phenomenon). If you empty jump in and both players throw at the same time, it should be random; if you whiffed a jab over their head or something, the other guy would win.

3

I believe this man is right, but being hit within those 13 frames negates the 13 frames where you can’t be thrown–it then turns to block stun frames. For example, say you’re getting up from a knockdown and your opponent Ken hits you with a meaty j.short…well, now you’re in block stun and you’re probably going to get tick knee bashed, forget about those 13 frames.

4

Wow that explains a lot. I always thought you could throw as soon as they got up, but I would always throw out a fierce instead.

This will help me tremendously. Thanks for clarifying that.

5

Thanks for the confirmation. This does explain a few of those weird little things like Puff mentioned.

6

Wait, so air noramals have 1 landing frame, but a regular jump has 0 landing frames? So if they just jump, you can’t make them “land” on a normal?

7

trip guard doesn’t exist in ST/SFHD. that’s why the silly Ryu fireball trap of Hadoken, crouching Roundhouse sweep works so well against Honda even if he empty jumps in (slightly less effective in SFHD, due to Honda’s jumping short getting a hitbox that smacks crouching Roundhouse).

8

Only Alpha 2 can you throw someone on their first frame of wake up, and only with Gief’s Speical grabs. ST actually has pretty long non-throw frames on wake up, compared to more recent SF game.