Vs Brickhouses/Tanks (Honda, Bison, Balrog, Blanka, ~Guile, ~Zangief, ~Cammy)

I searched for some anti-cammy info on the forums and, unless I really missed it, we seem to be fairly barren when it comes to information on that match-up.

–Chun can out poke her.

–And she can punish cammy’s SRK on block with hk HS, back+mk combo set, sweep, Ultra, and a couple other things I think.

That’s all I managed to really find as far as actual strategy info goes.

I’ve come across a handful of good cammy’s online and, man, those can be some tough fights. She can pretty easily combo into her super/Ultra, good amount of health, hits like a truck…

All I can add is that if the Cammy plays against Chun’s ground game, she’ll probably lose. We outpoke her, we can punish her hard.

But good Cammy players know Chun doesn’t have any great AA, while Cammy has a pretty solid air game.

I mean, try EX SBK’ing one of the better Cammy’s…you’ll get a boot to the crotch with EX CStrike.

They can also punish EX SBK pretty harshly (by either being just outside it on wake-up, or jumping in at you and landing just outside it) with cr. mk > hk SA/ cr.mk > super.

d/f HK, even ambiguous ones, can both be hit by CSpike…CSpike also makes neutral jumping risky.

EX hooligan can also be a pain, and gets tricky when you’re in the corner…does anyone else think it has some weird properties at times?

Etc, Etc.

In other words, solid Cammy players make me feel really limited in what I can do. This match-up has got to be a 6-4 in Cammy’s favor. I know the Cammy forums don’t seem too concerned about this match-up at all. I feel like out of all the console characters, she’s going to go the furthest. I wouldn’t be surprised if you start to see her win more and more tourneys in the coming months.

vs. Dictator
Full screen: At this range if both players know what they’re doing, the only thing going on will be both players building meter. If the dictator is feeling frisky he might try to get in with a stomp but that can be stopped with an airthrow or dashed under into a punishment combo.
Basically, this is a distance you don’t want to be at since I feel Dictator makes more use out of his meter than you do and you’re not really tempting him into trying to do something either.

3/4 distance: This range is more favorable to Chun since her mp kikouken will reach him so it forces him into doing devils reverse or stomping if he doesn’t have meter yet.
If he steers the devil’s reverse towards you you can just cr.mp under it or even cr.mk under it, it’s a good tactic to get a cheap hit in, and if he’s steering away with the devil’s reverse you can punish it on the ground with dash ultra if you have it, it will make him scared of using this again.
When he has meter you need to watch out for ex scissors since it can stuff you trying to throw fireballs, but if you block it you have free punishment for it, even reversal ultra if you have it.
It’s possible he will try to safeslide at this distance, it’s hard to see coming so it’s best to just block it, unless their obvious with it then sj.hp/hk is a good answer to it.
Be careful about throwing out a poke since they can buffer ultra behind it if they have it, but I think cr.lp might recovery fast enough to block the ultra if they buffer it behind the sweep.

Mid-range: This is where the long range pokes of both characters come into play, if he’s antsy with is far mk/hk you can whiff punish them with far hp or cr.hk until he calms down, your goal is to get him to stop throwing out pokes so you can get in safely.
It’s important that you don’t try to throw out pokes in neutral since his far mk and hk are very good at beating them out, whiff punishment is more reliable in this case and will leave you at the advantage allowing you to poke more.
He can throw out lk scissors at this range and you won’t really have a good, safe answer to it that you can use on reaction.
I prefer trying to read it and doing sj.hk since it will get him no matter if he ends up in front of you or behind you, but if you’re sure of him ending up in front of you sj.hp is a better choice since it leads to more damage.
If you staraight jumped without him doing anything he’s going to walk up and far hk you out of the air, your best bet here is sj.hp since it has a strong hitbox so it’s possible to get a trade if you time it right or if he times hk wrong.
Most of the match will be played out at this distance if you’re avoiding ending up in lk scissor pressure, until you get a knockdown.

Close range: Cr.lp is a very strong tool against Dictator since it’s +3 on block and he doesn’t have a fast move with invincibility, so pressuring with smart cr.lp’s will a lot of the time let you block his abare attempts.
If he teleports away you can dash up and punish it with cr.hk leading into knockdown, if he teleports behind you you can punish it with a neutral throw.
Your goal is to make him realize that his best option is to block and be patient about trying to get out.

He will at some point resort to either teching throws on reaction or crouch teching.
Against someone who’s teching on reaction just pressuring with walkup cr.lp with good timing will end up with you hitting him out of a throw tech attempt at some point if you’re delaying it correctly into making him think you went for a throw, which then leads to a basic ex legs combo.
And like I said before, if he tries to abare you will get to block it most of the time.

If they’re crouch teching your best bet is the cr.lp, cl.hk-string since it leads to guaranteed, confirmable damage on counter hit and it deters them from trying to crouch tech. If you don’t have the timing for the Nemo string down then just using lk hazanshu over his cr.lk and linking it into ex legs is your best bet, it will also deal a lot of damage like the Nemo string, but it leaves him an escape route since he can just focus attack the hazanshu if he reads it.

Okizeme: He doesn’t have a fast reversal move to throw at you on wakeup, so safejumps and meaty cr.lp are extremley good against him on wakeup.
The same situations and counters apply if you’re using meaty cr.lp, basically use cr.lp if you don’t have enough time for a safejump, otherwise safejumping is superior.
In case of safejumping I prefer using j.hk, crossover lk and the occacional df.hk since I don’t have the safejump timing down for it yet, and hit/block confirm it, if he tries to do something you just block it and react accordingly.
If he teleports away/behind you you have enough time to punish it with a far hp or cr.hk if you react to it fast enough.
If he tries to backdash away from your safejump just tag him with far mp into hazanshu, chances are he won’t react with focus in this situation since he wasn’t expecting to get hit in the first place, and keep the pressure on him.
His best getaway in the end will become ex psycho crusher since it does some chip damage on block and let’s him escape. If he gets obvious with it you can punish with either a well timed jump back into cr.mk ex legs or something to that effect, or you can delay an ex sbk to beat it out after it loses it’s invincibility.

**In the air:**He can beat you out of the air with both j.mp and jump back hp of you’re jumping towards him, so make sure he’s not expecting a jump when you do it, that way he should resort to either block or his hk.
Against his jump ins I prefer jumping towards him and airthrowing or sj.hk/hp, and early j.hp~hp will also work against his jumps.
you can also duck under his jumpins with cr.mp/cr.mk and punish them during their landing frames.
If he’s abusing j.mp just stop jumping and punish it on the ground with a basic combo. If you’re allowed to I recommend dashing under him before doing so since it lowers the chance of you getting hit by something by mistake.

Tidbits:

  • His crossover/safejump game is very strong against Chun on wakeup, just as Chun’s is strong against himl. You won’t be able to beat it out with ex sbk so you will be forced into block or backdash or block into backdash.
    Well, you do have one strong option left only that it’s difficult to pull off.
    If you do cr.mk immideately then you will crouch under his crossover/safejump but it won’t punish him for it.
    However if he didn’t confirm it chances are you will get a counter hit in if he safejumps.
    In the case of a crossover then your cr.mk will come out in the wrong direction I think, so backdashing away, going for a throw or throwing out ex sbk afterwards all work well if he tries to hit you with some kind of followup.
    Most of the time they will just block since they get surprised that their crossover/jump in whiffed so throw will be your most basic option to that.
    I think this works against most crossovers and safejumps of the cast except a few so experiement with it to see how it works for you.

  • His ultra is punishable with your ultra if you jump over it as soon as you can and then start charging your own.

That’s all I can think of for now.

good shit skatan:tup:

my prob with dictator is his ex wakeup dr and his ex stomp… i know i can punish his ex dr > runaway… with ultra but the prob that i have is never having charge when i go for the block… (i wiggle my character on wakeups to get closer and to be a bit ambiguous about what i’m going to do)

this is the same problem that i have versus hondas that wakeup with ex headbutt… either i wiggle to get closer and lose my charge or i stay planted and they just block cause i have no threats…

so how do you get them to do a reversal while still having charge???

-dime

Perhaps you can use a jump and charge during the jump.

4 frames to leave the ground + 41 frames in the air + 4 frames to land = 49 frames.

An ex headbutt hit in 8 frames so if the honda launch the headbutt just after you land you have 49 + 8 frames to charge . Looks very hard.
I think the first thing is to know how much long you stay knockdown after a throw or a sweep

I dunno if this could answer your question, but here goes:

when I get knocked down with Bison, I normally hold down-back. When he goes for a headstomp, I just go from down-back to back, so that I could block high when the headstomp is close to me. If he runs away, I dash Ultra. I dunno about the EX DRs tho.

with the losing charge thing, if I wanna inch closer and keep charge, I just press fierce if I’m holding down-back. That way, I still have charge and I’m closer to pull off an Ultra or Super.
Actually, MagMan used this tatic in a Sagat strategy video he did a while ago.
[media=youtube]oYCHUez7z-Q[/media] @ 0:55.

edit: oh crap, you were talking about their wakeup, weren’t you. =(

AWESOME!!!

why didnt i ever think of that (i did)

but i always figured that i would leave myself open to wakeup throws… but i just tested versus honda:

neutral throw> forward empty jump> walk backwards

is safe to all reversals and chun is out of throw range when op rises!

thx for that! awesome!

going to find some more setups post haste!

-edit:

backthrow unsafe to ex headbutt reversal, max range cr.hk unsafe to wakeup throw… sigh dont think ex legs will be safe to throw either but will test.

… yep ex legs unsafe to quickstand wakeup throw

-dime

Meh you could let them quickstand wakeup thorw you once, then let them try again except do a HSU this time and make them pay for it.

I did some test too.

After the ex legs, you can do a whiff hasan shu mk and block in time a quickstand wake up reversal ex headbutt, BUT you are in the range of a throw (normal and ochio)

If you use lk Hasan shu you block again and you are out of the range of a throw.

I think a whiff hasan shu will bait an attack

Added a post for Honda.

i got sumo butt spammed today… and i lost 6 times to it (6 games).
Az said to fa out of it but honda has this weird punch that hits quite fast and i get damaged… when i block or the second time during wakeup, the splash seems to crossup me and i get lost where on which way to block… -.-… i tried backdashing but the recovery is quite fast so i either eat a poke or another spalsh… i’ve been trying to zone well too but the ex. splash seems to gain him some distance even when its whiffed just so he could get closer…
sigh.

lucky me though because of chun’s crossup tactics when he’s the one knocked down… since i learned that even the lk crossup gets headbutted… i started using the mk cross up… omg… it works so wellll!! i didn’t even know that it could cross up… (it’s sorta like bisons… where the short leg must hit for the cross up)… it seems to freeze him for like .3 seconds and i have time to block if he does something else…
maybe i’m doing this wrong but i did win 3/9 :D!!

Balrog post is much needed =(

I see the best eating Rog for breakfast, but he’s still rounding out the bottom third of my win %s.

(super good stuff in these matchup threads so far!)

I’ve gotten better with honda fights :D!!
anyway,
i’m being squished by brutal cammys in G1… -.-.
please give some more tips! i know i can punish her cl.drill on reaction but my opponent only does the drill from far away to get closer and in links and he never uses the spike cuz i know i could punish. I’m getting spammed with the weird downward akuma looking kick attack and if i fadc backwards, i eat a cr. mk. same for the wakeup, my opponent uses that attack as the crossup and it confuses me which way to go after it’s blocked -.-. please… what can i do… =( (it’s hard to zone with kiko because of her hooligan and ex.drill )

(it’s canon stroke!)
[media=youtube]KPInB6kOWfY&feature=channel[/media]
what happens to me usually… to be more specific, from 1:45 and on. and the 3:04 stuff actually happened to me… even though it hurt, it was nice to see XD

Cannon Strike is very vulnerable to Focus Attack :slight_smile: (if cammy goes off the ground) it has ridiculous recovery compared to other dive kicks in the game…

but then again… good Cammy’s will see that u are catching up to their pressure game… so they will go for empty jumps > throw … or jumping lk which has very low recovery…

i think chuns c.lp will stuff low cannon strikes… (as far as i remember)

and for EX drill… C’mon… the damage is PATHETIC… minimal damage for an EX attack… unless u are in a corner (with the right space) cammy can Cannon Spike right after it… (and then with the proper EX… she can FADC, Ultra… but those are optimal conditions)

Hooligan is very punishable… if you see a hooligan coming ur way… just crouch and spam lp… lol… u will guarantee a hit… go for something like c.lp,c.lp,c.lk, EX legs…

tnx =)! if the strike can really be stuffed by cr.lp, it would help my game alot. is there a tip to get out of cammy’s corner pressure ?

air cannon spike (regular not ex) can be stuffed by cr.lp… u have to try it out… my friend plays ryu and he always stuff my c.spike with c.lp… if he’s a bit far… he goes for focus attack… (charge… wait for cammy to hit … then release!!! because of the recovery of cammy;s attack… u will always hit)… and with ryu u can dp :frowning:

check out my matches against ryu… he’s an FA addict… and it works really well against my strikes:

[media=youtube]B_WGKwKUNSY[/media]
[media=youtube]cddMkpajR10[/media]

and u will see how he stuffs my hooligans with c.lp :frowning:

for corner pressure… always save up 1 EX bar… and crouch block… the worst thing cammy can do is throw…!!! all the pressure attacks are blockable by crouching… be ready to tick throw… if this happen we go for:

  • throw = u should be ready to tick throw.
  • bait with FA (cammy players tend to focus attack after a blocked string)… so be ready to release ur charge here with EX SBK :slight_smile:
  • crossup attempt with j.lk (Chun is one of the few characters that cammy can crossup)… also be ready to release ur EX SBK.

but be aware… some cammys like to double TK Cannon Strike (the really low cannon strike)… this move beats throws… and it leads to a full damaging combo… that may end up with Super or Ultra :slight_smile:

^^^ tnx! will try out more FA’s in my next cammy fights =) (i’m kinda doubting on using it cuz cammy can reversal with her dp real quick…)

i got owned by chensors cammy yesterday… any more info on the matchup would be nice as i have absolutely zero experience with it.

-dime

Man I am not even going to pretend like I am “the authority” on this matchup because anyone that’s as skilled (or better) than James Chen can give Chun sooooo much difficulty.

If you’re dealing with an aggro Cammy: my philosophy now is: rush or be rushed.
Skilled players are extremely competent and executing these annoying loops with normal/special moves, giving you the impression that their offense is unbreakable.

I’ve learned that jumping (towards) Cammy is futile; too easy to get slapped down by Cannon Spike. Even crossups seem risky (no thanks to auto-correction)

  • Keep your tactics simple. I know this sounds obvious, but in my opinion, you need to pick at Cammy and just look for opportunities where she fails to connect attacks (i.e. whiffed Spiral Arrow). Moderate blockstrings (anything too extensive beyond your lpx3 -> fp combo is overdose and has a high probability to get interrupted by a “spammed” Cannon Spike/Spiral Arrow.

  • Watch for her Dive Kick shenanigans. If you’re prone to using EX SBK often. Sadly, she’s capable of stuffing this at the right angle, so you’re better off backdashing in the same manner that you would against Rufus. While this move doesn’t do a great deal of damage, it opens up the opportunity for her to follow up with more dive kicks (if they’re good enough) or another lk/lp string that almost always gets cancelled into Super/Ultra.

  • Maintain your distance. Cammy’s grab is deceiving and many almost always go for tick throws or boldly go for throws during situations when you’re in wakeup status. Online gets a bit iffy so don’t get too frustrated when you’re almost certain you’ve teched a move and it ends up in epic fail.

Defensive Cammy’s are much easier to deal with because you’ve got all the time in the world to pick at them. Players that take this route get the impression that they’re wear you down but in actuality, this works in Chun’s favor since she has better long range tools with just her normals alone (st. rh, st. fp, st. mp, cr. mp and cr. mk). Spiral Arrow gets stuff for free by cr. jab ala Blanka Ball – too good. From a distance, st. mp and st. mk also can stuff dive kick, from a distance. Good players though will almost always time this attack to be deep, preventing Chun from getting off a clean counter.

Plus, using a kiko makes for an awesome way to maintain space between you and Cammy if you opt for the “safe” approach. Limit all use of Kiko once she’s got meter because EX Hooligan is free, regardless what version of Kiko is thrown out. At that point, it should only be used for close range hit confirms off st. mp/cr. mk/cr. fp or cl st. fp).

I try to also avoid getting jump happy with neutral RH. As great as this move is against other characters, it’s too easy for Cammy to take Chun out with a well-timed Cannon Spike. Stay grounded and you’ll be a much greater threat.

^^^ you make the matchup to sound like its 7-3 cammy! lol (it might be… who knows…)

alot of doom and gloom in there… like going to church and hearing what will happen to you if you fornicate :rofl:

-dime

Man, it’s just not one of my favorite matchup. I’ve come across two players who had these gdlk reflexes that would put a smile on Sanford’s face. I am sure Az/Skatan may have a slightly different outlook in this matchup and consider it at best, 6-5 in Cammy’s favor. Perhaps I just need to rethink how to use my tools against her. Aggro Cammy makes me sad.