I like Roxas because he had the balls to tell his bosses to fuck off and go out and find his own meaning of self. He had the balls to storm the mansion and tell everyone inside to fuck off for trying to pidgin hole his ass into a destiny that screws him over. He had the balls to fight for his future. Yea he lost, but he tried. I respect that. It’s not his fault he got fucked over the by the cosmos.
Akhos
August 4, 2015, 1:53am
4562
The only way anyone has managed to defeat Roxas is through cheating.
Riku had to call on the power of darkness and win via a cheap shot.
Sora just got lucky.
Picked up LA Noire the other day for like $5. Given my experience in Ace Attorney games, this hasnt been all too challenging yet, though I like that the game isnt as combat oriented as I thought it would be. Action is peppered in here and there to keep it fresh, but it’s not the main focus. Investigating is.
But anyway, I finished the Traffic desk of cases. Alright ready to get cracking on either Homicide or Vice depending where it puts me.
“Please access the marketplace to download the Vice desk”
huh. ok then. go to marketplace
Download Homicide desk Download Vice desk Download Arson desk
https://i.imgur.com/I8CZKh.jpg
I mean what the fuck? Did they launch a $60 game with like 4 hours of gamplay on it before Konami thought it was cool? Literally 3 quarters of the game is free DLC. Yeah it’s fine that it’s free, but was it always free? Was it available at launch?
I stopped caring about KH after the second game.
Saitsu
August 4, 2015, 2:12am
4565
crotchpuncha:
Saitsu:
crotchpuncha:
I don’t like Chains either. II is still my favorite, I like the combat quite a bit, especially in the Final Mix. BBS is creeping up behind it tho, liking it quite a bit. I like KH1 a lot to. 358/6 Days was pretty bad imo, and I’m also not a fan of Chains, tho the PS2 “port” is much more tolerable imo.
I haven’t played any of the others.
Edit: On the story, ever since the beginning it’s been nothing but a endless stream of ass pulls so that doesn’t really bother me, I know to expect it, the narrative stuff that bothers me is stuff we are told that is clearly not true. Bugged the mother fuckin shit out of me in KHII for them to take so much time telling me Nobodies have no emotions when it’s EXTREMELY obvious that they do. I wouldn’t have minded this if Sora had the balls to actually question what was an obvious falsehood, be it that he was lied to, or that Yen Sid really didn’t know and was wrong, but no Sora just spends the whole game being a colossal asshole and constantly yelling in these dudes faces that they have no emotions so it’s ok for him to (ironically) heartlessly kill them. This would have been a great opportunity to send a message about it being ok to question the things people tell you, and to think for yourself (It’s primarily a kids series after all, this a good message to send the younger audiences that this series is aimed at) but instead they just let Sora run around like a good little puppet and off people cuz someone else told him. Good little assassin.
Drives me nuts, that’s way way worse they any ass pull the series has ever used. Still fun to play tho, I get to kick ass with Genie, like come on that’s sick as hell.
The irony is, since you said you haven’t played DDD (only read the spoiler if you have no intention of doing so or don’t care or already know).
Spoiler
Yeah, Nobodies do have emotions, at least the Organization. Actually it goes further, after Humanoid Nobodies spend enough time alive and forming attachments they actually gain hearts. The Org was gaining their hearts back which makes Sora look like an even bigger asshole than before. However even if Sora questioned it, the only one with said knowledge was Xemnas and Xehanort. No one else really knew.
To try and go Spoiler Free with the rebuttal, there’s really two things to say about Sora being an immense douche to the Org (beyond obviously needing to defeat them). 1, Sora tends to believe high authority figures. Luckily for him and not a certain other protagonist, the authority figures he runs into are on the side of good. However as you said, Yen Sid didn’t know as well as he thought so his naivete transferred onto Sora who just ran with it as he had more reason to believe Yen Sid.
But more importantly, 2, Sora believing they had emotions wouldn’t have changed much other than him being mildly less of an asshole to them. He would still have to defeat and kill them.
[details=Spoiler]Yea I know about the DDD revelation, but I still don’t like it because it’s a problem intrinsically tied to KHII’s narrative, which is a completely different game from DDD. It spoils that particular games mood and your ability to get behind the hero of the story because he spends the whole game acting like a heartless villain. It also makes DDD look more like it’s trying to apply a band aid to a narrative problem that started somewhere else, when if they had just written Sora as having the ability to think for himself then DDD would be a game that confirms his suspicions, instead of coming off like a band aid (and making him look like an even bigger asshole then he already did.)
Now I understand that knowing wouldn’t have made a big difference in the long run of the way the narrative plays out in the end. Even still there’s something to be said for a protagonist who questions his own actions, is capable of introspection, and learns from what he sees himself over just blindly believing what someone else has told them despite evidence that is blatantly in his face that says his benefactors might be wrong. It would also change Sora’s behavior from that of an asshole, to one who has empathy. If he believes there is a chance that these guys actually do have feelings, and that all they want back is their hearts, then Sora is now in the position of being able to empathize with these people even tho he knows he still needs to kill them because despite the fact they do have emotions and desires and wants, the things they plan to do to get their hearts back is too detrimental to the greater whole of the worlds and must be stopped regardless. Just because you want something real bad doesn’t mean you get to have it at the expense of everyone else around you, and that’s all the justification Sora would have needed to continue fighting.
Doing this humanizes not only the enemies, but Sora himself. It shows he’s capable of making his own damn decisions (the decision to continue fighting the Org despite suspecting that what he knows about them could very well be false). The decision to not blindly believe everything an authority figure tells him. One of the things about becoming a teenager is learning that you can be your own person, you can have your own thoughts and feelings about things. A theme of KHII is that of getting older. Growing up. Sora is no longer 10 but he still kind of acts like it, and the naivete of blindly believing everything an adult tells you is something teenagers don’t do, they begin to become autonomous. They specifically start questioning and doubting authority because they are now old enough to see that authority figures are fallible. It’s that time in your life where you learn and come to terms with the fact that your dad isn’t Superman. This is something Sora should have done in KHII. You just don’t see someone sacrifice their life for something that really doesn’t benefit themselves in anyway besides saving the life of a friend, and then continue to think that person is devoid of emotion. Self sacrifice for another is blatant emotional decision making, come on Sora I know you’re not blind.
I am glad they are recognizing this in the story of DDD (and perhaps KHIII as well), but in some ways it’s too little too late, and in the case of KHII that particular narrative line and lack of character growth for Sora is really damaging to KHII as a whole package.
I’m fine with Sora believing Yen Sid as he has no reason to think the guy would lie to him, or be flat out wrong (especially with the way Goofy and Donald where treating the guy), I simply have a problem with Sora at absolutely no point thinking to himself “Man…Perhaps Yen Sid was wrong.” I have the same problem with Terra, not once does the guy manage to think to himself “You know perhaps this isn’t a road I want to walk down.” I’d be fine if he had continued to do so after the introspection if he had deemed a good reason for doing so, it’s the fact that he just never once seems to question it. He questions himself a lot, but he never manages to look outside his own self doubt. Because of that his dense ass following of Xehanort works better here then it did in KHII because Terra clearly has serious self confidence issues so at least there is a tangible reason for it, even if it is still kind of annoying that dude doesn’t figure it out till its waaaaaaaaay too fucking late. Sora doesn’t have that excuse tho, Sora OOOZES confidence, so I feel he would have the confidence to question an authority figures judgment when he sees very clear examples of what he’s been told could potentially be false. I know Yen Sid told him they will pretend to have emotions, but no one pretends to wail in agony and despair when they die (Demyx) or sacrifice their own well being for that another (Axel). That shit (especially the fucking Axel situation) should at least give you some pause. [/details]I spoiler tagged my whole response because I don’t feel like trying to parse out parts that are spoiler or not so just consider the whole thing to be one.
[details=Spoiler]Well the growing up theme is kind of moot since while Sora’s a year older he basically lost that entire year due to Chain of Memories. If Sora had the wisdom he had gained within that game he probably would’ve been a lot less naive.
The biggest issue though is that he had no opportunity to go back and maybe ask Yen Sid what was going on. Even if he believes Yen Sid is wrong, he has absolutely no proof other than his own intuition. On top of that, it honestly DOESN’T matter if the Organization has hearts or not regardless of the douchiness. If anything it would make their actions worse. They still chose to throw worlds into chaos for their own self-serving desires. Without emotions, the desire to obtain them is hard to argue against. They wouldn’t have the emotional skills or attachments needed to understand why what they’re doing is wrong even with the knowledge. But with emotions they’d basically be purposefully ignoring them. Thus I’d honestly have less empathy for the Organization in Sora’s case.
Let’s be real, emotions, hearts or not, the Organization are NOT good people. Even Axel. As Lea he may be a good person, but as Axel even with a heart he wasn’t. He was a willful assassin who wanted to manipulate Sora in CoM and march under Xemnas’ orders.
So while a lot of things made Sora look like a sort of bigot which was bad, empathy would be ill placed in KH2.[/details]
Saitsu:
crotchpuncha:
Saitsu:
crotchpuncha:
I don’t like Chains either. II is still my favorite, I like the combat quite a bit, especially in the Final Mix. BBS is creeping up behind it tho, liking it quite a bit. I like KH1 a lot to. 358/6 Days was pretty bad imo, and I’m also not a fan of Chains, tho the PS2 “port” is much more tolerable imo.
I haven’t played any of the others.
Edit: On the story, ever since the beginning it’s been nothing but a endless stream of ass pulls so that doesn’t really bother me, I know to expect it, the narrative stuff that bothers me is stuff we are told that is clearly not true. Bugged the mother fuckin shit out of me in KHII for them to take so much time telling me Nobodies have no emotions when it’s EXTREMELY obvious that they do. I wouldn’t have minded this if Sora had the balls to actually question what was an obvious falsehood, be it that he was lied to, or that Yen Sid really didn’t know and was wrong, but no Sora just spends the whole game being a colossal asshole and constantly yelling in these dudes faces that they have no emotions so it’s ok for him to (ironically) heartlessly kill them. This would have been a great opportunity to send a message about it being ok to question the things people tell you, and to think for yourself (It’s primarily a kids series after all, this a good message to send the younger audiences that this series is aimed at) but instead they just let Sora run around like a good little puppet and off people cuz someone else told him. Good little assassin.
Drives me nuts, that’s way way worse they any ass pull the series has ever used. Still fun to play tho, I get to kick ass with Genie, like come on that’s sick as hell.
The irony is, since you said you haven’t played DDD (only read the spoiler if you have no intention of doing so or don’t care or already know).
Spoiler
Yeah, Nobodies do have emotions, at least the Organization. Actually it goes further, after Humanoid Nobodies spend enough time alive and forming attachments they actually gain hearts. The Org was gaining their hearts back which makes Sora look like an even bigger asshole than before. However even if Sora questioned it, the only one with said knowledge was Xemnas and Xehanort. No one else really knew.
To try and go Spoiler Free with the rebuttal, there’s really two things to say about Sora being an immense douche to the Org (beyond obviously needing to defeat them). 1, Sora tends to believe high authority figures. Luckily for him and not a certain other protagonist, the authority figures he runs into are on the side of good. However as you said, Yen Sid didn’t know as well as he thought so his naivete transferred onto Sora who just ran with it as he had more reason to believe Yen Sid.
But more importantly, 2, Sora believing they had emotions wouldn’t have changed much other than him being mildly less of an asshole to them. He would still have to defeat and kill them.
[details=Spoiler]Yea I know about the DDD revelation, but I still don’t like it because it’s a problem intrinsically tied to KHII’s narrative, which is a completely different game from DDD. It spoils that particular games mood and your ability to get behind the hero of the story because he spends the whole game acting like a heartless villain. It also makes DDD look more like it’s trying to apply a band aid to a narrative problem that started somewhere else, when if they had just written Sora as having the ability to think for himself then DDD would be a game that confirms his suspicions, instead of coming off like a band aid (and making him look like an even bigger asshole then he already did.)
Now I understand that knowing wouldn’t have made a big difference in the long run of the way the narrative plays out in the end. Even still there’s something to be said for a protagonist who questions his own actions, is capable of introspection, and learns from what he sees himself over just blindly believing what someone else has told them despite evidence that is blatantly in his face that says his benefactors might be wrong. It would also change Sora’s behavior from that of an asshole, to one who has empathy. If he believes there is a chance that these guys actually do have feelings, and that all they want back is their hearts, then Sora is now in the position of being able to empathize with these people even tho he knows he still needs to kill them because despite the fact they do have emotions and desires and wants, the things they plan to do to get their hearts back is too detrimental to the greater whole of the worlds and must be stopped regardless. Just because you want something real bad doesn’t mean you get to have it at the expense of everyone else around you, and that’s all the justification Sora would have needed to continue fighting.
Doing this humanizes not only the enemies, but Sora himself. It shows he’s capable of making his own damn decisions (the decision to continue fighting the Org despite suspecting that what he knows about them could very well be false). The decision to not blindly believe everything an authority figure tells him. One of the things about becoming a teenager is learning that you can be your own person, you can have your own thoughts and feelings about things. A theme of KHII is that of getting older. Growing up. Sora is no longer 10 but he still kind of acts like it, and the naivete of blindly believing everything an adult tells you is something teenagers don’t do, they begin to become autonomous. They specifically start questioning and doubting authority because they are now old enough to see that authority figures are fallible. It’s that time in your life where you learn and come to terms with the fact that your dad isn’t Superman. This is something Sora should have done in KHII. You just don’t see someone sacrifice their life for something that really doesn’t benefit themselves in anyway besides saving the life of a friend, and then continue to think that person is devoid of emotion. Self sacrifice for another is blatant emotional decision making, come on Sora I know you’re not blind.
I am glad they are recognizing this in the story of DDD (and perhaps KHIII as well), but in some ways it’s too little too late, and in the case of KHII that particular narrative line and lack of character growth for Sora is really damaging to KHII as a whole package.
I’m fine with Sora believing Yen Sid as he has no reason to think the guy would lie to him, or be flat out wrong (especially with the way Goofy and Donald where treating the guy), I simply have a problem with Sora at absolutely no point thinking to himself “Man…Perhaps Yen Sid was wrong.” I have the same problem with Terra, not once does the guy manage to think to himself “You know perhaps this isn’t a road I want to walk down.” I’d be fine if he had continued to do so after the introspection if he had deemed a good reason for doing so, it’s the fact that he just never once seems to question it. He questions himself a lot, but he never manages to look outside his own self doubt. Because of that his dense ass following of Xehanort works better here then it did in KHII because Terra clearly has serious self confidence issues so at least there is a tangible reason for it, even if it is still kind of annoying that dude doesn’t figure it out till its waaaaaaaaay too fucking late. Sora doesn’t have that excuse tho, Sora OOOZES confidence, so I feel he would have the confidence to question an authority figures judgment when he sees very clear examples of what he’s been told could potentially be false. I know Yen Sid told him they will pretend to have emotions, but no one pretends to wail in agony and despair when they die (Demyx) or sacrifice their own well being for that another (Axel). That shit (especially the fucking Axel situation) should at least give you some pause. [/details]I spoiler tagged my whole response because I don’t feel like trying to parse out parts that are spoiler or not so just consider the whole thing to be one.
[details=Spoiler]Well the growing up theme is kind of moot since while Sora’s a year older he basically lost that entire year due to Chain of Memories. If Sora had the wisdom he had gained within that game he probably would’ve been a lot less naive.
The biggest issue though is that he had no opportunity to go back and maybe ask Yen Sid what was going on. Even if he believes Yen Sid is wrong, he has absolutely no proof other than his own intuition. On top of that, it honestly DOESN’T matter if the Organization has hearts or not regardless of the douchiness. If anything it would make their actions worse. They still chose to throw worlds into chaos for their own self-serving desires. Without emotions, the desire to obtain them is hard to argue against. They wouldn’t have the emotional skills or attachments needed to understand why what they’re doing is wrong even with the knowledge. But with emotions they’d basically be purposefully ignoring them. Thus I’d honestly have less empathy for the Organization in Sora’s case.
Let’s be real, emotions, hearts or not, the Organization are NOT good people. Even Axel. As Lea he may be a good person, but as Axel even with a heart he wasn’t. He was a willful assassin who wanted to manipulate Sora in CoM and march under Xemnas’ orders.
So while a lot of things made Sora look like a sort of bigot which was bad, empathy would be ill placed in KH2.[/details]
[details=Spoiler]I disagree, it’s entirely possible to have empathy for someone while still acknowledging what they are doing is wrong. You can have empathy for their goal (The return of their hearts that where stolen from them as it was understood at the time) while still demonizing their actions to obtain them. Sora doesn’t need to go back to Yen Sid to have doubts. He would need to do that to perhaps confirm those doubts (Which is when we would learn that Yen Sid probably doesn’t actually know) be he doesn’t have to go back to have them. Hell even if Yen Sid told him his suspicions where wrong he doesn’t have to agree, he can still doubt and continue his search on his own. All I wanted was for him to have doubts, or to question what he was told. That’s it. Not to listen and believe despite mounting evidence to the contrary. I simply wanted more character from him then what I got.
As for the losing a year, you’re right, but I still say fuck that because it doesn’t mean he couldn’t have gone through character growth over the course of the game, if anything the “I lost a year” is a perfect excuse for him to go through serious character growth over the course of the game which would have only strengthened the narrative. It would have only been a +.[/details]
I had purchased the Kingdom Hearts 1.5 HD collection not too long ago to see why people were so excited for KH3.
Eh. I don’t have much nostalgia for it so I wasn’t enjoying it much.
I think I’m in the same boat as Hawkingbird. It’s kinda cool to see the homages and nods to the Disney universe but Sora and co. are hella lame.
Saitsu
August 4, 2015, 2:45am
4568
crotchpuncha:
Saitsu:
crotchpuncha:
Saitsu:
crotchpuncha:
I don’t like Chains either. II is still my favorite, I like the combat quite a bit, especially in the Final Mix. BBS is creeping up behind it tho, liking it quite a bit. I like KH1 a lot to. 358/6 Days was pretty bad imo, and I’m also not a fan of Chains, tho the PS2 “port” is much more tolerable imo.
I haven’t played any of the others.
Edit: On the story, ever since the beginning it’s been nothing but a endless stream of ass pulls so that doesn’t really bother me, I know to expect it, the narrative stuff that bothers me is stuff we are told that is clearly not true. Bugged the mother fuckin shit out of me in KHII for them to take so much time telling me Nobodies have no emotions when it’s EXTREMELY obvious that they do. I wouldn’t have minded this if Sora had the balls to actually question what was an obvious falsehood, be it that he was lied to, or that Yen Sid really didn’t know and was wrong, but no Sora just spends the whole game being a colossal asshole and constantly yelling in these dudes faces that they have no emotions so it’s ok for him to (ironically) heartlessly kill them. This would have been a great opportunity to send a message about it being ok to question the things people tell you, and to think for yourself (It’s primarily a kids series after all, this a good message to send the younger audiences that this series is aimed at) but instead they just let Sora run around like a good little puppet and off people cuz someone else told him. Good little assassin.
Drives me nuts, that’s way way worse they any ass pull the series has ever used. Still fun to play tho, I get to kick ass with Genie, like come on that’s sick as hell.
The irony is, since you said you haven’t played DDD (only read the spoiler if you have no intention of doing so or don’t care or already know).
Spoiler
Yeah, Nobodies do have emotions, at least the Organization. Actually it goes further, after Humanoid Nobodies spend enough time alive and forming attachments they actually gain hearts. The Org was gaining their hearts back which makes Sora look like an even bigger asshole than before. However even if Sora questioned it, the only one with said knowledge was Xemnas and Xehanort. No one else really knew.
To try and go Spoiler Free with the rebuttal, there’s really two things to say about Sora being an immense douche to the Org (beyond obviously needing to defeat them). 1, Sora tends to believe high authority figures. Luckily for him and not a certain other protagonist, the authority figures he runs into are on the side of good. However as you said, Yen Sid didn’t know as well as he thought so his naivete transferred onto Sora who just ran with it as he had more reason to believe Yen Sid.
But more importantly, 2, Sora believing they had emotions wouldn’t have changed much other than him being mildly less of an asshole to them. He would still have to defeat and kill them.
[details=Spoiler]Yea I know about the DDD revelation, but I still don’t like it because it’s a problem intrinsically tied to KHII’s narrative, which is a completely different game from DDD. It spoils that particular games mood and your ability to get behind the hero of the story because he spends the whole game acting like a heartless villain. It also makes DDD look more like it’s trying to apply a band aid to a narrative problem that started somewhere else, when if they had just written Sora as having the ability to think for himself then DDD would be a game that confirms his suspicions, instead of coming off like a band aid (and making him look like an even bigger asshole then he already did.)
Now I understand that knowing wouldn’t have made a big difference in the long run of the way the narrative plays out in the end. Even still there’s something to be said for a protagonist who questions his own actions, is capable of introspection, and learns from what he sees himself over just blindly believing what someone else has told them despite evidence that is blatantly in his face that says his benefactors might be wrong. It would also change Sora’s behavior from that of an asshole, to one who has empathy. If he believes there is a chance that these guys actually do have feelings, and that all they want back is their hearts, then Sora is now in the position of being able to empathize with these people even tho he knows he still needs to kill them because despite the fact they do have emotions and desires and wants, the things they plan to do to get their hearts back is too detrimental to the greater whole of the worlds and must be stopped regardless. Just because you want something real bad doesn’t mean you get to have it at the expense of everyone else around you, and that’s all the justification Sora would have needed to continue fighting.
Doing this humanizes not only the enemies, but Sora himself. It shows he’s capable of making his own damn decisions (the decision to continue fighting the Org despite suspecting that what he knows about them could very well be false). The decision to not blindly believe everything an authority figure tells him. One of the things about becoming a teenager is learning that you can be your own person, you can have your own thoughts and feelings about things. A theme of KHII is that of getting older. Growing up. Sora is no longer 10 but he still kind of acts like it, and the naivete of blindly believing everything an adult tells you is something teenagers don’t do, they begin to become autonomous. They specifically start questioning and doubting authority because they are now old enough to see that authority figures are fallible. It’s that time in your life where you learn and come to terms with the fact that your dad isn’t Superman. This is something Sora should have done in KHII. You just don’t see someone sacrifice their life for something that really doesn’t benefit themselves in anyway besides saving the life of a friend, and then continue to think that person is devoid of emotion. Self sacrifice for another is blatant emotional decision making, come on Sora I know you’re not blind.
I am glad they are recognizing this in the story of DDD (and perhaps KHIII as well), but in some ways it’s too little too late, and in the case of KHII that particular narrative line and lack of character growth for Sora is really damaging to KHII as a whole package.
I’m fine with Sora believing Yen Sid as he has no reason to think the guy would lie to him, or be flat out wrong (especially with the way Goofy and Donald where treating the guy), I simply have a problem with Sora at absolutely no point thinking to himself “Man…Perhaps Yen Sid was wrong.” I have the same problem with Terra, not once does the guy manage to think to himself “You know perhaps this isn’t a road I want to walk down.” I’d be fine if he had continued to do so after the introspection if he had deemed a good reason for doing so, it’s the fact that he just never once seems to question it. He questions himself a lot, but he never manages to look outside his own self doubt. Because of that his dense ass following of Xehanort works better here then it did in KHII because Terra clearly has serious self confidence issues so at least there is a tangible reason for it, even if it is still kind of annoying that dude doesn’t figure it out till its waaaaaaaaay too fucking late. Sora doesn’t have that excuse tho, Sora OOOZES confidence, so I feel he would have the confidence to question an authority figures judgment when he sees very clear examples of what he’s been told could potentially be false. I know Yen Sid told him they will pretend to have emotions, but no one pretends to wail in agony and despair when they die (Demyx) or sacrifice their own well being for that another (Axel). That shit (especially the fucking Axel situation) should at least give you some pause. [/details]I spoiler tagged my whole response because I don’t feel like trying to parse out parts that are spoiler or not so just consider the whole thing to be one.
[details=Spoiler]Well the growing up theme is kind of moot since while Sora’s a year older he basically lost that entire year due to Chain of Memories. If Sora had the wisdom he had gained within that game he probably would’ve been a lot less naive.
The biggest issue though is that he had no opportunity to go back and maybe ask Yen Sid what was going on. Even if he believes Yen Sid is wrong, he has absolutely no proof other than his own intuition. On top of that, it honestly DOESN’T matter if the Organization has hearts or not regardless of the douchiness. If anything it would make their actions worse. They still chose to throw worlds into chaos for their own self-serving desires. Without emotions, the desire to obtain them is hard to argue against. They wouldn’t have the emotional skills or attachments needed to understand why what they’re doing is wrong even with the knowledge. But with emotions they’d basically be purposefully ignoring them. Thus I’d honestly have less empathy for the Organization in Sora’s case.
Let’s be real, emotions, hearts or not, the Organization are NOT good people. Even Axel. As Lea he may be a good person, but as Axel even with a heart he wasn’t. He was a willful assassin who wanted to manipulate Sora in CoM and march under Xemnas’ orders.
So while a lot of things made Sora look like a sort of bigot which was bad, empathy would be ill placed in KH2.[/details]
[details=Spoiler]I disagree, it’s entirely possible to have empathy for someone while still acknowledging what they are doing is wrong. You can have empathy for their goal (The return of their hearts that where stolen from them as it was understood at the time) while still demonizing their actions to obtain them. Sora doesn’t need to go back to Yen Sid to have doubts. He would need to do that to perhaps confirm those doubts (Which is when we would learn that Yen Sid probably doesn’t actually know) be he doesn’t have to go back to have them. Hell even if Yen Sid told him his suspicions where wrong he doesn’t have to agree, he can still doubt and continue his search on his own. All I wanted was for him to have doubts, or to question what he was told. That’s it. Not to listen and believe despite mounting evidence to the contrary. I simply wanted more character from him then what I got.
As for the losing a year, you’re right, but I still say fuck that because it doesn’t mean he couldn’t have gone through character growth over the course of the game, if anything the “I lost a year” is a perfect excuse for him to go through serious character growth over the course of the game which would have only strengthened the narrative. It would have only been a +.[/details]
[details=Spoiler]Except at no point did the Organization give them any reason for empathy. Why should he or anyone care if the Org got back their hearts? There’s very little guarantee that they would be better people with emotions than without them. And the truth is even with emotions they weren’t very good people. There’s something else missing from the whole equation that isn’t really explained much. As I said before, Axel with a heart was still a relatively bad person. However Lea reincarnated is a full on good guy, and that seems to be the case for at least half the Organization now that they’re “somebodies” again. It’s possible that the Mind or Soul is simply different enough from the Heart even in KH. Enough so that even with emotions they lack the empathy to truly understand and follow them.
Also at the same time, Demyx had spent a decent amount of time trolling Sora about them having hearts or not which didn’t help shit at all. Between him, and Xaldin acting like an almighty asshole (probably the third douchiest person in the Org outside of Larxene and Xaldin), I wouldn’t take the chance to empathize with the others. What Sora should’ve done though is consider the possibility, ignore it for the immediate future, and then ask Yen Sid about the possibility at a later date (aka, he should’ve asked when he saw him during DDD). That I would’ve been fine with.[/details]
Anyway, to talk about the topic that actually brought us here in the first place, Darksakul, you don’t get the authority to decide what is a Side Game and what isn’t. Whether you personally like it or not, at the very least Birth By Sleep and Dream Drop Distance are not side games. BBS might as well be called KH0 (and I believe that was its working title) and DDD is KH3 in all but actual name. Days can be considered a side game (whose relevance only increases) along with Coded and MAYBE Chains to a slight degree, but those two are NOT side games no matter what you believe.
Just like how Resident Evil Code Veronica isn’t a side game. The lack of a Number in the title doesn’t mean a game is automatically a side game. Relevance and impact over the overall story at large determines that.
crotchpuncha:
I like Roxas because he had the balls to tell his bosses to fuck off and go out and find his own meaning of self. He had the balls to storm the mansion and tell everyone inside to fuck off for trying to pidgin hole his ass into a destiny that screws him over. He had the balls to fight for his future. Yea he lost, but he tried. I respect that. It’s not his fault he got fucked over the by the cosmos.
He did that cause his bae died. Who a clone of Sora. And Roxas is Sora’s Nobody. So it’s like a weird form of incest?
Saitsu:
Anyway, to talk about the topic that actually brought us here in the first place, Darksakul, you don’t get the authority to decide what is a Side Game and what isn’t.
Yes I can, I can decide for my self what worth my time and what isn’t based from the expectations from the previous series.
Me, I laugh how just because some of you hold a such a mediocre series in such regards does not mean I have to share in your vision. And FACT : yes KH series is very mediocre in retrospect. Don’t get me started about the 3 hour tutorial that is a pain-in-the-ass to get though in KH II. It was not hard its just tedious, its bad game play design we would denounce newer IP for less. And the whole side plot of Sephiroth. It was kinda cool to have the cameo in the first KH, but by the 2nd game the gimmick wore thin. I can forgive the sins of the first game, but the 2nd game did a poor job polishing those trouble areas. Yea the sing-a-long part with the Little mermaid was fun once, the 2nd time it was a chore.
Actually to established naming schemes most series follow The lack of a Number in the title DOES mean a game is automatically a side game unless the numbering scheme is abandoned or a notation is made.
Saitsu
August 4, 2015, 3:10am
4572
Okay, I’m immediately ignoring the rest of your post to focus on this.
I did NOT say that you were forced to play the rest of the series, or the series at all. I did NOT say that I was dictating what was worth your time. You’re right, you can decide to play whatever the fuck you want. I honestly don’t give a shit.
You can play all the games, some of them or none of them. Fucking go for it. But you don’t get decide what is a side game or not.
I have no desire to play any new Assassin’s Creed game after 3 and I feel they’re not worth my time since they’re becoming strict annual games which I feel lowers potential quality. Does that make them Sequels any less? Fuck no. Were Assassin’s Creed Brotherhood and Revelations Side Games because they had numbers? No, they were sequels in their own self contained trilogy with 2. You can easily play just the numbered titles if that’s all you want to do, but you’re going to get extra confused as to why certain people are dead and why certain shit is happening.
You can play whatever games you want, in whatever order and leave out whatever you want. Fine by me. But that doesn’t make shit a side game. I’m sure most of us wish we could say that Devil May Cry 2 was a side game. Or that any Mortal Kombat after 3 and before 9 were side games. However they aren’t sadly. We can choose to ignore them and sometimes we do, but the fact that they’re main entries in said series does not change based on our perception of their quality or worth. They are main games, fact. They also suck like hell, don’t want to play them and wish they didn’t exist. But they are main games.
X-Death
August 4, 2015, 3:13am
4573
XthAtGAm3RGuYX:
Picked up LA Noire the other day for like $5. Given my experience in Ace Attorney games, this hasnt been all too challenging yet, though I like that the game isnt as combat oriented as I thought it would be. Action is peppered in here and there to keep it fresh, but it’s not the main focus. Investigating is.
But anyway, I finished the Traffic desk of cases. Alright ready to get cracking on either Homicide or Vice depending where it puts me
I highly recommend doing the cases in quick succession. I was kinda taking it slow because I didn’t want to get burned out, but when I finally found out the identity of the serial killer I had no fucking clue who it was, despite them saying we had met before. So pay close attention.
Saitsu:
crotchpuncha:
Saitsu:
crotchpuncha:
Saitsu:
crotchpuncha:
I don’t like Chains either. II is still my favorite, I like the combat quite a bit, especially in the Final Mix. BBS is creeping up behind it tho, liking it quite a bit. I like KH1 a lot to. 358/6 Days was pretty bad imo, and I’m also not a fan of Chains, tho the PS2 “port” is much more tolerable imo.
I haven’t played any of the others.
Edit: On the story, ever since the beginning it’s been nothing but a endless stream of ass pulls so that doesn’t really bother me, I know to expect it, the narrative stuff that bothers me is stuff we are told that is clearly not true. Bugged the mother fuckin shit out of me in KHII for them to take so much time telling me Nobodies have no emotions when it’s EXTREMELY obvious that they do. I wouldn’t have minded this if Sora had the balls to actually question what was an obvious falsehood, be it that he was lied to, or that Yen Sid really didn’t know and was wrong, but no Sora just spends the whole game being a colossal asshole and constantly yelling in these dudes faces that they have no emotions so it’s ok for him to (ironically) heartlessly kill them. This would have been a great opportunity to send a message about it being ok to question the things people tell you, and to think for yourself (It’s primarily a kids series after all, this a good message to send the younger audiences that this series is aimed at) but instead they just let Sora run around like a good little puppet and off people cuz someone else told him. Good little assassin.
Drives me nuts, that’s way way worse they any ass pull the series has ever used. Still fun to play tho, I get to kick ass with Genie, like come on that’s sick as hell.
The irony is, since you said you haven’t played DDD (only read the spoiler if you have no intention of doing so or don’t care or already know).
Spoiler
Yeah, Nobodies do have emotions, at least the Organization. Actually it goes further, after Humanoid Nobodies spend enough time alive and forming attachments they actually gain hearts. The Org was gaining their hearts back which makes Sora look like an even bigger asshole than before. However even if Sora questioned it, the only one with said knowledge was Xemnas and Xehanort. No one else really knew.
To try and go Spoiler Free with the rebuttal, there’s really two things to say about Sora being an immense douche to the Org (beyond obviously needing to defeat them). 1, Sora tends to believe high authority figures. Luckily for him and not a certain other protagonist, the authority figures he runs into are on the side of good. However as you said, Yen Sid didn’t know as well as he thought so his naivete transferred onto Sora who just ran with it as he had more reason to believe Yen Sid.
But more importantly, 2, Sora believing they had emotions wouldn’t have changed much other than him being mildly less of an asshole to them. He would still have to defeat and kill them.
[details=Spoiler]Yea I know about the DDD revelation, but I still don’t like it because it’s a problem intrinsically tied to KHII’s narrative, which is a completely different game from DDD. It spoils that particular games mood and your ability to get behind the hero of the story because he spends the whole game acting like a heartless villain. It also makes DDD look more like it’s trying to apply a band aid to a narrative problem that started somewhere else, when if they had just written Sora as having the ability to think for himself then DDD would be a game that confirms his suspicions, instead of coming off like a band aid (and making him look like an even bigger asshole then he already did.)
Now I understand that knowing wouldn’t have made a big difference in the long run of the way the narrative plays out in the end. Even still there’s something to be said for a protagonist who questions his own actions, is capable of introspection, and learns from what he sees himself over just blindly believing what someone else has told them despite evidence that is blatantly in his face that says his benefactors might be wrong. It would also change Sora’s behavior from that of an asshole, to one who has empathy. If he believes there is a chance that these guys actually do have feelings, and that all they want back is their hearts, then Sora is now in the position of being able to empathize with these people even tho he knows he still needs to kill them because despite the fact they do have emotions and desires and wants, the things they plan to do to get their hearts back is too detrimental to the greater whole of the worlds and must be stopped regardless. Just because you want something real bad doesn’t mean you get to have it at the expense of everyone else around you, and that’s all the justification Sora would have needed to continue fighting.
Doing this humanizes not only the enemies, but Sora himself. It shows he’s capable of making his own damn decisions (the decision to continue fighting the Org despite suspecting that what he knows about them could very well be false). The decision to not blindly believe everything an authority figure tells him. One of the things about becoming a teenager is learning that you can be your own person, you can have your own thoughts and feelings about things. A theme of KHII is that of getting older. Growing up. Sora is no longer 10 but he still kind of acts like it, and the naivete of blindly believing everything an adult tells you is something teenagers don’t do, they begin to become autonomous. They specifically start questioning and doubting authority because they are now old enough to see that authority figures are fallible. It’s that time in your life where you learn and come to terms with the fact that your dad isn’t Superman. This is something Sora should have done in KHII. You just don’t see someone sacrifice their life for something that really doesn’t benefit themselves in anyway besides saving the life of a friend, and then continue to think that person is devoid of emotion. Self sacrifice for another is blatant emotional decision making, come on Sora I know you’re not blind.
I am glad they are recognizing this in the story of DDD (and perhaps KHIII as well), but in some ways it’s too little too late, and in the case of KHII that particular narrative line and lack of character growth for Sora is really damaging to KHII as a whole package.
I’m fine with Sora believing Yen Sid as he has no reason to think the guy would lie to him, or be flat out wrong (especially with the way Goofy and Donald where treating the guy), I simply have a problem with Sora at absolutely no point thinking to himself “Man…Perhaps Yen Sid was wrong.” I have the same problem with Terra, not once does the guy manage to think to himself “You know perhaps this isn’t a road I want to walk down.” I’d be fine if he had continued to do so after the introspection if he had deemed a good reason for doing so, it’s the fact that he just never once seems to question it. He questions himself a lot, but he never manages to look outside his own self doubt. Because of that his dense ass following of Xehanort works better here then it did in KHII because Terra clearly has serious self confidence issues so at least there is a tangible reason for it, even if it is still kind of annoying that dude doesn’t figure it out till its waaaaaaaaay too fucking late. Sora doesn’t have that excuse tho, Sora OOOZES confidence, so I feel he would have the confidence to question an authority figures judgment when he sees very clear examples of what he’s been told could potentially be false. I know Yen Sid told him they will pretend to have emotions, but no one pretends to wail in agony and despair when they die (Demyx) or sacrifice their own well being for that another (Axel). That shit (especially the fucking Axel situation) should at least give you some pause. [/details]I spoiler tagged my whole response because I don’t feel like trying to parse out parts that are spoiler or not so just consider the whole thing to be one.
[details=Spoiler]Well the growing up theme is kind of moot since while Sora’s a year older he basically lost that entire year due to Chain of Memories. If Sora had the wisdom he had gained within that game he probably would’ve been a lot less naive.
The biggest issue though is that he had no opportunity to go back and maybe ask Yen Sid what was going on. Even if he believes Yen Sid is wrong, he has absolutely no proof other than his own intuition. On top of that, it honestly DOESN’T matter if the Organization has hearts or not regardless of the douchiness. If anything it would make their actions worse. They still chose to throw worlds into chaos for their own self-serving desires. Without emotions, the desire to obtain them is hard to argue against. They wouldn’t have the emotional skills or attachments needed to understand why what they’re doing is wrong even with the knowledge. But with emotions they’d basically be purposefully ignoring them. Thus I’d honestly have less empathy for the Organization in Sora’s case.
Let’s be real, emotions, hearts or not, the Organization are NOT good people. Even Axel. As Lea he may be a good person, but as Axel even with a heart he wasn’t. He was a willful assassin who wanted to manipulate Sora in CoM and march under Xemnas’ orders.
So while a lot of things made Sora look like a sort of bigot which was bad, empathy would be ill placed in KH2.[/details]
[details=Spoiler]I disagree, it’s entirely possible to have empathy for someone while still acknowledging what they are doing is wrong. You can have empathy for their goal (The return of their hearts that where stolen from them as it was understood at the time) while still demonizing their actions to obtain them. Sora doesn’t need to go back to Yen Sid to have doubts. He would need to do that to perhaps confirm those doubts (Which is when we would learn that Yen Sid probably doesn’t actually know) be he doesn’t have to go back to have them. Hell even if Yen Sid told him his suspicions where wrong he doesn’t have to agree, he can still doubt and continue his search on his own. All I wanted was for him to have doubts, or to question what he was told. That’s it. Not to listen and believe despite mounting evidence to the contrary. I simply wanted more character from him then what I got.
As for the losing a year, you’re right, but I still say fuck that because it doesn’t mean he couldn’t have gone through character growth over the course of the game, if anything the “I lost a year” is a perfect excuse for him to go through serious character growth over the course of the game which would have only strengthened the narrative. It would have only been a +.[/details]
[details=Spoiler]Except at no point did the Organization give them any reason for empathy. Why should he or anyone care if the Org got back their hearts? There’s very little guarantee that they would be better people with emotions than without them. And the truth is even with emotions they weren’t very good people. There’s something else missing from the whole equation that isn’t really explained much. As I said before, Axel with a heart was still a relatively bad person. However Lea reincarnated is a full on good guy, and that seems to be the case for at least half the Organization now that they’re “somebodies” again. It’s possible that the Mind or Soul is simply different enough from the Heart even in KH. Enough so that even with emotions they lack the empathy to truly understand and follow them.
Also at the same time, Demyx had spent a decent amount of time trolling Sora about them having hearts or not which didn’t help shit at all. Between him, and Xaldin acting like an almighty asshole (probably the third douchiest person in the Org outside of Larxene and Xaldin), I wouldn’t take the chance to empathize with the others. What Sora should’ve done though is consider the possibility, ignore it for the immediate future, and then ask Yen Sid about the possibility at a later date (aka, he should’ve asked when he saw him during DDD). That I would’ve been fine with.[/details]
Anyway, to talk about the topic that actually brought us here in the first place, Darksakul, you don’t get the authority to decide what is a Side Game and what isn’t. Whether you personally like it or not, at the very least Birth By Sleep and Dream Drop Distance are not side games. BBS might as well be called KH0 (and I believe that was its working title) and DDD is KH3 in all but actual name. Days can be considered a side game (whose relevance only increases) along with Coded and MAYBE Chains to a slight degree, but those two are NOT side games no matter what you believe.
Just like how Resident Evil Code Veronica isn’t a side game. The lack of a Number in the title doesn’t mean a game is automatically a side game. Relevance and impact over the overall story at large determines that.
We’re arguing two different things. Your arguing based on what was done, I’m arguing that they should have done it different from the beginning.
Anyway cool talk man. :tup:
Saitsu
August 4, 2015, 3:16am
4575
crotchpuncha:
Saitsu:
crotchpuncha:
Saitsu:
crotchpuncha:
Saitsu:
crotchpuncha:
I don’t like Chains either. II is still my favorite, I like the combat quite a bit, especially in the Final Mix. BBS is creeping up behind it tho, liking it quite a bit. I like KH1 a lot to. 358/6 Days was pretty bad imo, and I’m also not a fan of Chains, tho the PS2 “port” is much more tolerable imo.
I haven’t played any of the others.
Edit: On the story, ever since the beginning it’s been nothing but a endless stream of ass pulls so that doesn’t really bother me, I know to expect it, the narrative stuff that bothers me is stuff we are told that is clearly not true. Bugged the mother fuckin shit out of me in KHII for them to take so much time telling me Nobodies have no emotions when it’s EXTREMELY obvious that they do. I wouldn’t have minded this if Sora had the balls to actually question what was an obvious falsehood, be it that he was lied to, or that Yen Sid really didn’t know and was wrong, but no Sora just spends the whole game being a colossal asshole and constantly yelling in these dudes faces that they have no emotions so it’s ok for him to (ironically) heartlessly kill them. This would have been a great opportunity to send a message about it being ok to question the things people tell you, and to think for yourself (It’s primarily a kids series after all, this a good message to send the younger audiences that this series is aimed at) but instead they just let Sora run around like a good little puppet and off people cuz someone else told him. Good little assassin.
Drives me nuts, that’s way way worse they any ass pull the series has ever used. Still fun to play tho, I get to kick ass with Genie, like come on that’s sick as hell.
The irony is, since you said you haven’t played DDD (only read the spoiler if you have no intention of doing so or don’t care or already know).
Spoiler
Yeah, Nobodies do have emotions, at least the Organization. Actually it goes further, after Humanoid Nobodies spend enough time alive and forming attachments they actually gain hearts. The Org was gaining their hearts back which makes Sora look like an even bigger asshole than before. However even if Sora questioned it, the only one with said knowledge was Xemnas and Xehanort. No one else really knew.
To try and go Spoiler Free with the rebuttal, there’s really two things to say about Sora being an immense douche to the Org (beyond obviously needing to defeat them). 1, Sora tends to believe high authority figures. Luckily for him and not a certain other protagonist, the authority figures he runs into are on the side of good. However as you said, Yen Sid didn’t know as well as he thought so his naivete transferred onto Sora who just ran with it as he had more reason to believe Yen Sid.
But more importantly, 2, Sora believing they had emotions wouldn’t have changed much other than him being mildly less of an asshole to them. He would still have to defeat and kill them.
[details=Spoiler]Yea I know about the DDD revelation, but I still don’t like it because it’s a problem intrinsically tied to KHII’s narrative, which is a completely different game from DDD. It spoils that particular games mood and your ability to get behind the hero of the story because he spends the whole game acting like a heartless villain. It also makes DDD look more like it’s trying to apply a band aid to a narrative problem that started somewhere else, when if they had just written Sora as having the ability to think for himself then DDD would be a game that confirms his suspicions, instead of coming off like a band aid (and making him look like an even bigger asshole then he already did.)
Now I understand that knowing wouldn’t have made a big difference in the long run of the way the narrative plays out in the end. Even still there’s something to be said for a protagonist who questions his own actions, is capable of introspection, and learns from what he sees himself over just blindly believing what someone else has told them despite evidence that is blatantly in his face that says his benefactors might be wrong. It would also change Sora’s behavior from that of an asshole, to one who has empathy. If he believes there is a chance that these guys actually do have feelings, and that all they want back is their hearts, then Sora is now in the position of being able to empathize with these people even tho he knows he still needs to kill them because despite the fact they do have emotions and desires and wants, the things they plan to do to get their hearts back is too detrimental to the greater whole of the worlds and must be stopped regardless. Just because you want something real bad doesn’t mean you get to have it at the expense of everyone else around you, and that’s all the justification Sora would have needed to continue fighting.
Doing this humanizes not only the enemies, but Sora himself. It shows he’s capable of making his own damn decisions (the decision to continue fighting the Org despite suspecting that what he knows about them could very well be false). The decision to not blindly believe everything an authority figure tells him. One of the things about becoming a teenager is learning that you can be your own person, you can have your own thoughts and feelings about things. A theme of KHII is that of getting older. Growing up. Sora is no longer 10 but he still kind of acts like it, and the naivete of blindly believing everything an adult tells you is something teenagers don’t do, they begin to become autonomous. They specifically start questioning and doubting authority because they are now old enough to see that authority figures are fallible. It’s that time in your life where you learn and come to terms with the fact that your dad isn’t Superman. This is something Sora should have done in KHII. You just don’t see someone sacrifice their life for something that really doesn’t benefit themselves in anyway besides saving the life of a friend, and then continue to think that person is devoid of emotion. Self sacrifice for another is blatant emotional decision making, come on Sora I know you’re not blind.
I am glad they are recognizing this in the story of DDD (and perhaps KHIII as well), but in some ways it’s too little too late, and in the case of KHII that particular narrative line and lack of character growth for Sora is really damaging to KHII as a whole package.
I’m fine with Sora believing Yen Sid as he has no reason to think the guy would lie to him, or be flat out wrong (especially with the way Goofy and Donald where treating the guy), I simply have a problem with Sora at absolutely no point thinking to himself “Man…Perhaps Yen Sid was wrong.” I have the same problem with Terra, not once does the guy manage to think to himself “You know perhaps this isn’t a road I want to walk down.” I’d be fine if he had continued to do so after the introspection if he had deemed a good reason for doing so, it’s the fact that he just never once seems to question it. He questions himself a lot, but he never manages to look outside his own self doubt. Because of that his dense ass following of Xehanort works better here then it did in KHII because Terra clearly has serious self confidence issues so at least there is a tangible reason for it, even if it is still kind of annoying that dude doesn’t figure it out till its waaaaaaaaay too fucking late. Sora doesn’t have that excuse tho, Sora OOOZES confidence, so I feel he would have the confidence to question an authority figures judgment when he sees very clear examples of what he’s been told could potentially be false. I know Yen Sid told him they will pretend to have emotions, but no one pretends to wail in agony and despair when they die (Demyx) or sacrifice their own well being for that another (Axel). That shit (especially the fucking Axel situation) should at least give you some pause. [/details]I spoiler tagged my whole response because I don’t feel like trying to parse out parts that are spoiler or not so just consider the whole thing to be one.
[details=Spoiler]Well the growing up theme is kind of moot since while Sora’s a year older he basically lost that entire year due to Chain of Memories. If Sora had the wisdom he had gained within that game he probably would’ve been a lot less naive.
The biggest issue though is that he had no opportunity to go back and maybe ask Yen Sid what was going on. Even if he believes Yen Sid is wrong, he has absolutely no proof other than his own intuition. On top of that, it honestly DOESN’T matter if the Organization has hearts or not regardless of the douchiness. If anything it would make their actions worse. They still chose to throw worlds into chaos for their own self-serving desires. Without emotions, the desire to obtain them is hard to argue against. They wouldn’t have the emotional skills or attachments needed to understand why what they’re doing is wrong even with the knowledge. But with emotions they’d basically be purposefully ignoring them. Thus I’d honestly have less empathy for the Organization in Sora’s case.
Let’s be real, emotions, hearts or not, the Organization are NOT good people. Even Axel. As Lea he may be a good person, but as Axel even with a heart he wasn’t. He was a willful assassin who wanted to manipulate Sora in CoM and march under Xemnas’ orders.
So while a lot of things made Sora look like a sort of bigot which was bad, empathy would be ill placed in KH2.[/details]
[details=Spoiler]I disagree, it’s entirely possible to have empathy for someone while still acknowledging what they are doing is wrong. You can have empathy for their goal (The return of their hearts that where stolen from them as it was understood at the time) while still demonizing their actions to obtain them. Sora doesn’t need to go back to Yen Sid to have doubts. He would need to do that to perhaps confirm those doubts (Which is when we would learn that Yen Sid probably doesn’t actually know) be he doesn’t have to go back to have them. Hell even if Yen Sid told him his suspicions where wrong he doesn’t have to agree, he can still doubt and continue his search on his own. All I wanted was for him to have doubts, or to question what he was told. That’s it. Not to listen and believe despite mounting evidence to the contrary. I simply wanted more character from him then what I got.
As for the losing a year, you’re right, but I still say fuck that because it doesn’t mean he couldn’t have gone through character growth over the course of the game, if anything the “I lost a year” is a perfect excuse for him to go through serious character growth over the course of the game which would have only strengthened the narrative. It would have only been a +.[/details]
[details=Spoiler]Except at no point did the Organization give them any reason for empathy. Why should he or anyone care if the Org got back their hearts? There’s very little guarantee that they would be better people with emotions than without them. And the truth is even with emotions they weren’t very good people. There’s something else missing from the whole equation that isn’t really explained much. As I said before, Axel with a heart was still a relatively bad person. However Lea reincarnated is a full on good guy, and that seems to be the case for at least half the Organization now that they’re “somebodies” again. It’s possible that the Mind or Soul is simply different enough from the Heart even in KH. Enough so that even with emotions they lack the empathy to truly understand and follow them.
Also at the same time, Demyx had spent a decent amount of time trolling Sora about them having hearts or not which didn’t help shit at all. Between him, and Xaldin acting like an almighty asshole (probably the third douchiest person in the Org outside of Larxene and Xaldin), I wouldn’t take the chance to empathize with the others. What Sora should’ve done though is consider the possibility, ignore it for the immediate future, and then ask Yen Sid about the possibility at a later date (aka, he should’ve asked when he saw him during DDD). That I would’ve been fine with.[/details]
Anyway, to talk about the topic that actually brought us here in the first place, Darksakul, you don’t get the authority to decide what is a Side Game and what isn’t. Whether you personally like it or not, at the very least Birth By Sleep and Dream Drop Distance are not side games. BBS might as well be called KH0 (and I believe that was its working title) and DDD is KH3 in all but actual name. Days can be considered a side game (whose relevance only increases) along with Coded and MAYBE Chains to a slight degree, but those two are NOT side games no matter what you believe.
Just like how Resident Evil Code Veronica isn’t a side game. The lack of a Number in the title doesn’t mean a game is automatically a side game. Relevance and impact over the overall story at large determines that.
We’re arguing two different things. Your arguing based on what was done, I’m arguing that they should have done it different from the beginning.
Anyway cool talk man. :tup:
I don’t like talking much about how things should’ve changed because sadly we can’t go back and change said things. I just try my best to accept things how they are, my perception within that reality and move on based on that. I really wouldn’t have had a problem with them doing things your way either.
No you can’t. There are plots introduced in Code Veronica that important to the series as a whole.
Code Veronica is the game that establishes Wesker as the main villain of the series. It brought him back, introduces his powers, his rivalry with Chris, gave the first canonial account of what happened in the first two games.
First game to dive into the history of Umbrella with the introduction of the Ashford family.
introduction of the T-Veronica virus. The virus would later pop up in two side games, Dead Aim and Darkside Chronicles. T-Veronica virus was catalyst for the creation for the C-Virus, the main virus of RE6.
kAb
August 4, 2015, 3:30am
4577
Code Veronica didn’t add to the lore of RE? Had no connection to 4 or 5? You forget it was the first reappearance of super wesker? Also your FF reference makes no sense because all of the numbered FFs are self contained stories/universes. So how could they have any continuity compared to those ttiles you claim as sub games.
You want sub games? Suikoden tactics and suikogaiden are side games added on to suikoden 4 and 2 respectively.
Edit: you’re that guy who copypastad the demons crest description about a month ago. Well I didn’t have the sense to put you on ignore then, but I won’t make that mistake again.
Akhos
August 4, 2015, 3:38am
4578
Just to stick my thoughts in here on the KH thing:
[details=Spoiler]Couldn’t you also argue that Sora was defending/protecting himself? At least in the case of the members not named Demyx. The ones you meet and fight towards the end of the game seemed intent on destroying Sora, since they no longer had a use for him as Kingdom Hearts was completed at that point. And if Sora had lost to Xaldin, I’m guessing they would have tried to bring back Roxas so that they could rely on him to further the creation of Kingdom Hearts. It’s not like if Sora let them go they’d stop coming after him; and if Axel is any indication, I’m sure that some of them would have continued fighting to the point where they would basically kill themselves anyway.
Demyx was the only one where I felt that taking him out was (somewhat) unjustified.[/details]
This conversation is dumb as fuck.
Whether or not you want to play any of the non-numbered KH games is up to you, but not having a number or being on a console don’t make BBS or 3D “side games.” By your own definition, a side game basically ignores the main story and focuses on developing side characters. BBS is a prequel to KH… It explains the origin of EVERYTHING. 3D is a sequel to KHII and it fills in holes left by KHII. It also sets up the plot for KHIII. These games have major impacts on how the story is understood and received, something that is not accomplished or intended by a side game.
I don’t care how you feel, to be honest. You don’t get to subjectify something this black and white. They’re not side games, they’re part of the main story. Period.
If you want even more reason to believe that, watch this:http://youtu.be/xm-NoyqzGkY
God forbid someone had to look up something on the internet.