It’s one of the harder things to do with Vega - but it’s worth practicing. I can land grounded CH into U2 many times in a row, but not U1 yet (although I can’t pull a U1 by itself several times in a row either haha). If you can land it off of a grounded CH, you will feel confident when you have a rare chance to land it off of an easier anti-air CH punish.
And yes, it needs to hit at the far tip, or if you make it a meaty attack you can land it at point-blank so long as you only connect with the last frame of CH.
If you can’t quite do it, try a deep jump-in HP or HK into U2 or U1 to practice your quick-charging.
I cannot even imagine doing it. j.hpcst.hp/cst.mk -anyrcf is the main combo for me, CH-hk.ST is also his BnB. I’m used to those charges. But this one just seems out of this world. What is the charge time required for U2? I cannot find it in any frame data. I wasn’t even aware it gives enough charge time. Even doing from an AA CH is hell…
It is not a counter hit CH, right? Just a ragular standing opponent?!
If you want to test, just see if it can get hit by ryu’s ultra, chun’s ultra, balrog’s ultra, etc etc
I think it was close to -20 in the last game so as long as it doesn’t get hit by certain ultra’s like ryu’s there’s a decent chance it could actually be safer
EDIT: AND, if it actually makes contact with crouching opponents now like they said it would, it would be worth using as a ghetto-get-out-the-corner-move without having all the bouncy time of FBA, but no control over where you are (Also very punishable if they jump or just DP the slash-off)
It’s totally safer now, but like I said can’t say for sure if they messed with the frames on it, but Vega visibly lands further away from the opponent than he did in AE. The gave more bounce to him after he hits the opponent on guard.
Just did right now on a Sagat in the middle of the stage and he couldn’t punish it.
No I dropped him and went for the burnt-out EX SHC “crossover” because he wasn’t playing like he was on game but he surprised me and blocked it.
But the point was he couldn’t punish it afterward, I back-dashed and went on playing. He didn’t have Ultra though, so I still don’t know if that’s able to punish it.
I can confidently say that some of the stuff that could punish it in AE, can definitely not punish it now, that’s 100%. As for the question can anything punish it, that remains to be seeing.
One example would be Ryu’s sweep, which would always punish me after a blocked EX SHC in AE, can no longer reach me because of the distance between us in 2012. So if you were to go for an EX SHC in anticipation of a hadoken, and Ryu didn’t end up throwing one and just blocked, you would be safe from a sweep punish, and anything else in his arsenal that has less reach than his sweep.
Ryu’s cr.mk would also get me after a blocked EX SHC in AE, I’m fairly confident that it can’t reach now, but I’ll test that one because I’m not sure. However, if cr.mk has less range than his cr.hk it definitely can’t reach us now.
I believe this is a very situational, useful ninja buff they snuck in there. I seriously don’t think that it’s now 100% safe from everything on guard, but if one knows his opponent’s move set and range, one could certainty make use of this.
Would you say that this is a result of more pushback alone, or do you think that we’ve gotten less recovery/more blockstun on it as well? For instance, if it’s pushback only, Ryu’s sweep might be out of range, but since SHC is like -20 on block, he’d easily be able to just walk himself into range and then sweep.
First off, I must emphasize that Ryu was in the middle of the stage during these tests.
*And after each blocked EX SHC, I immediately back dashed.
Also, I found out that if your opponent is near the corner of the screen and you attempt a “cross over” EX SHC and it’s blocked, it will be very punishable, becuase Vega has little to no room to get a decent push-off and create space, since he lands in the corner.
During a regular EX SHC (when you fly to the wall behind you), if Vegais near the corner he has little room to get a decent push-off and create space on block because he ends right back in the corner, so don’t do it.
If you EX SHC and then back dash on block, none of Ryu’s normals can punish it. Doesn’t matter if he stands there and executes them or walks forward or dashes forward and then does them, back-dash (or block) will beat out all of them. In AE this was not the case, but I still don’t know if it’s just because of the added “bounce” they gave us or if they added secret block stun but there you have it.
If you EX SHC and then back dash on block, none of Ryu’s special moves can punish it.*****[S]except for hurricane kick[/S]. [S]Again, doesn’t matter if he stands there or forward-dashes to you. However, in order for hurricane kick to hit Ryu has to literally execute it the second the blockstun from EX SHC wears off, otherwise it’ll miss. So not completely safe, but if Ryu is one frame late then the Hurricane Kick won’t connect, so it’s not a death wish either.[/S]
^
**** Don’t back dash just block. Hurricane kick can punish EX SHC backdash but not EX SHC block.***
Ryu’s Ultra and Super can still punish EX SHC, back-dash or not.
So like I thought it’s very character specific, people will have to dive into the training room and grind, but somewhat useful.
EDIT: Went back and tested some more and found out that screen position is the most important thing here. It all depends on where you and your opponent are on the screen that will determine how punishable EX SHC is. Again, don’t EX SHC yourself into a corner, becuase you’re a sitting duck then.
I see you guys particularly concerned about EX SHC’s degree of safety.I was as well and i put it in the lab for quite a bit. The main difference is in the pushback
distance if the opponent blocks it CROUCHING.Vega now lands much further than in super and regular ae.Recovery frames don’t
seem to be altered as any move that can reach it in 2012 without moving forward punishes it exactly the same as in previous
versions(e.g rufus cr.hp).However in 2012 the increase in pushback means opponents have a smaller window to punish it.
I tested crossup ex.SHC(not putting vega close to the corner) against every single member of the cast and the vast majority has at least one way to punish it.For some it’s dead easy
like Rufus(cr.hp),Blanka(amazon slide) Seth(wheel kicks ,ultra 1),Vega (with anything you like best is ex.fba), Dudley(MG blow), Sagat(any ex tiger shot and ex tiger knee),Cammy(hard or ex spiral arrow and ultra 1) or Dhalsim(obviously).Others need stricter timing and spacing to punish properly.
The move is completely safe against only Juri and Evil Ryu(yes his ex.fireball is quite slow to punish neither can his sweep ,super or anything else)
Gouken(with walk>sweep) and Adon(walk>cr.hp) have a very difficult time punishing the move and Dan can punish only with ultra 1.
Any other character i didn’t mention has a viable way of punishing given the player has decent reactions.Feel free to ask for any other character’s way of punishing.
Ahhhh… so crouching opponents get the same pushback as they always did when they were standing now.
Well that’s better than nothing. It’s kinda difficult for some characters to get a big punish, so hey, if it’s safer in absolutely any regard, i have no complaints.
And now, please someone answer my previous question about this CH-U1/U2 question. It is not a counter hit CH, right? Just a regular standing opponent? Cause I’ll practice doing this heavily.
having the claw on makes a difference
here are the results:
Ryu- can only punish with super (or U1 if no claw)
Ken- can only punish with U2 if no claw
Honda- can only punish with U1 or super if no claw
Ibuki- U1, U2 or EX slide
Makoto- EX dash thingy (Hayate i think)
Dudley- U1, machine gun blow (all versions except LP), and he can ex duck under it. (EX Ducking Straight and Uppercut also hit if no claw.)
Seth- too much shit to list… dont do it… ever
Gouken- nothing
Akuma- U1 and Super, but the real threat is the fact that is sets you up PERFECTLY for extremely ambiguous things from akuma. Doing it 3 times i already found 3 mixup options.
Gen- Ground Super and Ground U1 (the one that looks like buffed up ground super)
Dan- U1
Sakura- HP and MP SRK
Oni- Super, f+HP, (and f+HK, f+MK without claw)
Yang- U2, EX Rekka (and EX Dragon kicks, if no claw)
Hakan- dont do it… ever
Guy- run slide
Cody- EX crack kick, U2
DeeJay- EX and HK Dread Kicks, U1, Super
Cammy- EX and HK Spiral Arrow, Super, U1
Sagat- U2. Kara EX TK may crossover if you’re crouching, (f+LK, EX High TS if no claw)
Bison- dont do it
Viper- MP TK and super
Abel- CoD (any version) U1, U2
Dhalsim- cHP, cMP, cLP (can slide under easily though)
Chun- sHK, f+MK, Super, U1
Juri- nothing but her cMP beats it free
Yun- Lunge Punch (all versions except HP), U2, EX Shoulder (and LP if no claw)
E Ryu- Super, (U1 if no claw)
Guile- U2, (EX HK Flash Kick, and f+HK if no claw)
Blanka- Slide, U2, EX Hori Ball (HK hori ball if no claw)
Gief- EX and HP Green Hand (MP if no claw).
Rufus- U2, EX GT FADC cLP, cHP (EX GT FADC U1 looks safe but maybe be unsafe by 1 frame. Someone else may want to test this)
Fuerte- U2 if no claw
Vega- Sweep, U1, U2, EX FBA
Balrog- Dont do it.
Fei- dont do it without claw, otherwise nothing
Hawk- only sHK when no claw, but it does set up aperfect instant air condor dive whiff into any command grab including U1 and could be a deadly mix up with U2 if they expect a jump
Adon- EX JK may be able to punish, U1(sHK when no claw)
Rose- U1, Super, EX soul Sprial
Most everything is frame tight, meaning it’s got 1 frame where they can punish. Overall, it’s fairly safe against most of the cast. If i said dont do it next to their name they just have too many meterless options to punish or those meterless options are too easy.
the key is to stay away from the corners. both opponents need to be in the middle or a lot of these that are safe become unsafe. I also did this with setting the opponent to block after hitting the EX SHC (high for mid and high attacks and low for low attacks).
Strange, HP.SHC wiffs on all crouching characters except Gouken. He has a unique character hitbox for sure.
I never tested or heard of this before till now, but you can land EX.SHC as an instant crossup vs Gouken as he gets up, like Bison can with EX.PsychoCrusher. It’s low damage and I don’t see too much reason to doing that and not just instant crossup EX.FBA. Not possible with HP.SHC
@vegaman some characters in your list can indeed punish ex.shc with other ways too(need to block it crouching in particular).
It still makes a difference in favour of the opponent if they block it crouching.
For example honda can easily punish (not with ultra1 or super assume you do it as a crossup) but walk a lil bit and s.hk
Ken and Ryu can punish with their ex.fireballs if they block crouching as well.
Fei long can punish with any reka(also super) except light version regardless if you do it with claw on or not
Another notable one is guile who can punish with f.hp in addition to fk
best is ex.fba), Dudley(MG blow), Sagat(any ex tiger shot and ex tiger knee),Cammy(hard or ex spiral arrow and ultra 1) or Dhalsim(obviously).Others need stricter timing and spacing to punish properly.