Personally, I would still try to frame-trap them. Frame-traps with two frame gaps would beat crouch-tech as well as stand teching. And low hitting frame-traps would be even better against standing opponents. cMK cMP would destroy them, as well as sLK cLP, or sLK cMP.
I do remember you that at close range and with lights normals, you are at +1 at best (counterhits aside), meaning there would be 3 frames gaps. Meaning at close range you could be beaten by extreme mashing machines (stand techs/3 frames jabs), just like Vegaman says. That risk lowers after the second light, thanks to the range, but is a flaw due to character design : we’re not at ease at close range. =)
If you realise they rely on standing tech punish them hard with cr.lp >walk very slightly backwards > cosmic heel
Vega has more pushback on his cr.lp than most of the cast and just with a tiny step you will be already outside of their throw range.
You can also do cr.mk after your jump in then another slightly delayed cr.mk into combo but the first tactic is more effective as few people will mash standing tech after your cr.mk.
The reason I didn’t advise using a normal its sure to the fact that normals within throw range well lost to stand tech because you will get grabbed. Yes you can frame trap them but the purpose of a frame trap is to land a counterhit. You can’t get a counterhit on a stand tech punish
These two tactics i mentioned are not counter hit setups but whiff punish setups that work especially well vs standing tech.
If you do any frame trap with vega apart from cr.mk > cr.mp or s.lk >cr.mp and the opponent masses standing tech you will get grabbed.
Anyway that’s only to make things perfectly clear i am sure we both understand what we are talking about vegaman
In this year’s WGC in france i didn’t play anyone that was using standing tech though tbh
even if you hit with focus 1 you are in danger after a front dash
practice focus and cancel it with back dash,
if you dont hit you are far and with very little frame delay it is risk free no move in the game can punish -1, you are pretty far too which gives you breathing space
if you hit with level one you are far score damage and safe
if you hit counter level 1 or level 2 you score a crumple and can juggle him with CH ^^ ST (unless it is blanka)
Practice in train mode focus 2 backdash walk CH ^^ ST. it is a good hit conform combo.
Every now and then ( every 2-3 rounds) you can use focus front dash** gimmick**
then
grab beats block
ST (only on lvl 2 focus block) beats grabs and command grabs
backdash bait a srk like reaction dont do that against command grabbers
late stand up kara grab resist reversal srk, beats block tech grabs and beats backwalk dont do that against command grabbers.
Every time I see a front dashing mirror vega I grin because I know I am going to score 1 to 2 ST a round for free, they score nothing on my focus attempts unless then manage to amke me whiff.
bj.HP works on every standing opponent with the possible exception of blanka, on crouching it misses a lot, note that it doesn’t matter much at is is just as punishable whether it hits or not
it is best used as
A - okizeme to end the round because… there is no punish from a knocked out opponent and waking up opponent always wake up standing (something known as ghost standing stance) even if they have the stick at the down for the whole duration. On some opponent you need to do a fj.HP to crossup over their invincible move should they use it (honda sagat…)
B - as a gimmick after a ji.HP >> jb.HP once againt it rarely whiffs because
if the enemy is blocking high the jump in, then he’ll have “ghost standing stance” while crouching and be hit by the jb.HP, if he dorsnt block the jump in he ll get it by that and if he was standing or is big you combo the jb.HP,
if he wants to block the second one he has to stay standing which gives you a mixup as you could start a cr.mk combo.
if he does a move to instantly lower hist upper body hitbox he makes himself vulnerable to grabs and possibily get comboed
if he starts to mash his srk after blocking high he ll score on you doing Jb.HP but as you use it as a gimmick he ll do that into a block more often than not and gets a full punish combo in the face as a reward every time you did not use the gimmick.
C - after walk up, but it is really risky as most counters for walk up grab also work for wlak up jb.HP, also the enemy is most likely crouching in that situation meaning you will whiff(70% of the cast), if he crouch techs you will also whiff on (70% of the cast), you will only hit if he stands up tech or try to zone you out of grab range but in that canse a cr.MK frame trap is a much better gimmick to play at footsies. plus in that case as trias said if you do it from close you are likely to get a unwanted ST from grabbing, or an unwanted SHC from playing the gimmick.
basically the problem of that gimmick is that it is heavily punishable on block or hit, nearly 50% of the cast has something vicious to do on reaction ( neckbreacker, hosenka, soull less pick what you want)
I’m using a lot of Focus level 2 backdash now, it’s almost free pressure, I love it almost as much as the walk CH-ST which follow. And you’re the one who taugh me to do so, aside with GiddyFF.
But there are cases where I would still attempt some front dash focus, that mostly against characters without invincible reversals. But to follow-up with a cLP cLP ± karathrow or cLK xx LP-RCF (theorically). At +2, cLP would beat every non invincible move, specially EX ST attempts.
Both are good pressure anyway, I’m enjoying the FA buff more than I would have thought. ^^
This question is not about Vega but as the Vega sub-forum is the only one I’m actually active, I wanted to ask here: I’ve just realised that Gouken’s U2 causes stun. Eventhubs writes that it is one of the two ultras in the game that cause stun. Does anyone know which is the second one?
I need a bit of help cause i’m feeling quite noob right now: i’ve bought this game 1 week ago after not touching a SF game since ST (and even then i was really casual).
After getting a feeling of the game and the various chars today i went to training mode and the Trials to improve my Vega, and here lies my problem.
The specials/super/ultra i can perform somewhat consistently (altho too many time instead of an ultra i get EX ST >_>) but the COMBOS are giving me hell!
I don’t know why but the hits don’t link into each other (for example, there is a trial that start with some cLP but i get 3 detached hits).
I tried pushing the button faster…nope… i watched a video of that very same trial in a guide and tried to emulate the timing shown and yet it doesn’t work.
And don’t let me start on combos with FA… ç_ç
You’re having problems timing your links. Claw’s cLP aren’t chained, they must be linked, meaning you must hit another cLP at the exact moment where the previous one ends. That’s not that easy.
You’ve got plenty of explanation about links and techniques to improve your execution since**that post**.
I have a quick quest. in a poke/counter poke setting, what do u guys use to counter or punish Ryu to stop using cr. mk. It seems to beat a lot of my pokes. Same thing with juri cr. mk. Thnx in advance
If a player abuses crouching kicks (typically cMK cancel into something), you can outpoke him easily with cosmic heel : his poke will whiff and he’ll eat big damage. Same with PoM. Or you own cMK, cMP, or sMK which has a good priority considering his range.
Normally, you could focus bdackdash, but this is’nt a good idea against Ryu’s cMK 'cause a good Ryu will cancel it into hadoken most of the time. In fact, the weakness of his cMK is it’s range, which is about 1.4. To give you an idea, it’s roughly the range of your cLP. Your own cMK is 1.8, so you can outrange him without too much problems.
Ryu’s weakness is the range of his normals. If you’re outpoked by Ryu’s cMK, then it might be that your poking range is too close. Within that range, you should be (carefully) frame trapping instead with sLK cMP, or cLP cMP, or cMK cMP, all of those preventing him to use a cMK inbetween attacks. It’s an attack range, when you want to get in, not a poking one. Keep in mind that if you stay within that range with only pokes, not only will you be cMK (and cMK EX Hado into ultra is a possibility), but you’ll be sweep into safe-jump too. =)
The cr. mk seemed to be going under my cr. mp ans sLK. and I was skeptical about using CH due to the range I was at, considering ryu will be spamming cr. lp after he blocks it. I was getting frustrated by the speed of his cr. mk (4 frames). Thnx for putting some light on its range deficiency, I will try to attack it from that angle instead.
Pom beats shotos cr.mk flat, it always has even when it was not an overhead. now it is so it also beats shotos sitting on their ass also it slightly outranges cr.mk and also beats cr.HK.
basically you can transform that cr.mk defensive poking into a mixup situation.
walk to him then you have several options
A - stop just before shotos cr.mk range sit and time a cr.mk of your own to hit his recovery, then combo into cr.mp xx EX.FBJ ^^ ID
B - start a PoM and then either grab, backdash or OS tech cr.lp >> cr.lk xx L.RCF depending on his favorite reaction.
C - come into range of shoto’s cr.mk duck, block cr.mk start focus attack focus absob hadoken release the focus attack in his face backdash cancel focus recovery.
D - come into range of cr.mk sit on your ass block cr.mk block hadoken then try to come in with L.RCF if he poçkes again straight away you could get hit
E - jump from far into his far cr.mk range, block cr.mk reversal with “EX.ST or EX.RCF” throught the hadoken.
these are all “foosties” options, become predictable about any of them and you’ll be punished.
I am pretty sure you can try to land a counter hit focus I on him before the hadoken absorbing the cr.mk but it requires testing.
The objective here is to have him abandon the systematic hadoken afterwards which kind of is forcing him into footsies game instead of having a failsafe push back option for them, no hado means you are still in range for your pokes or for a walk up grab or tick throw or frame trap cr.mk hit confirm which is what they want to avoid, you charged sitting at cr.mk range.
