[quote=Som*;5598084
did anybody else notice in the blanka vs Grrr video at exactly 1:59 Grrr tryed a command overhead (df mk) but Blanka is able to block it low? must be some kind of bug.
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df+Mk is NOT an overhead, even though one might think so from the way it looks. It makes the move pretty much useless.
I was thinking the same thing about Vega’s FA range. but I’m wondering if you can store a charge during a dash from an FA. I found that you can dash using db,db or df,df. and if you can store a charge, you could possibly use it to bait the opponent into your EX flying claw or even an Ultra. I wont be ablt to test it for awhile.
When do you EX flip kick the lariat?
Why is Blanka considered such a hard match up for Vega? I haven’t played against blanka, so I dont know. (blanka, honda and Boxer are the only 3 of the cast that I haven’t played against. so I dont know much to do against them when I do.)
Haha,haven’t played Street Fighter games much,huh? Those two(Blanka and Honda) were always a bit of a problem for Vega. Sheesh,i’m always trembling when someone chooses one of those
Any charge move after a dash is going to involve partitioning. I can partition pretty consistently in 3s, but the timing seems weird in sf4. I’ll definitely keep trying though. Also, I don’t know if dash up ultra would work very well. Not saying that it won’t, but most of the time my ultra gets stuffed (cr.strong, cr.jap, st.fierce, etc) if i do it in their face. I hate the fact that he isn’t invincible when he flies to the wall. I can’t tell you how many times I KNEW a dash punch from balrog or headbutt from honda was coming, and I did ultra, and they knocked me out of the air before I got to the wall. Soooooo frustrating… Oh well. More stuff to work on, I guess.
Any time after the start up… but before it ends, of course.
One word, 7 syllables: Elec-fucking-tricity. It’s what seperates Blanka and Gief from the rest of the cast; you know, the portion of the cast that actually have to put in work for wins. jk… kinda. Anyways, allow me to elaborate. The matchup is difficult because Blanka can spam electricity to beat:
a) your blocked strings (semi important)
b) your wall dives (semi important) Although, you might be able to hit if you time the barcelona attack so that the claw hits early… gotta test this.
c) a majority of your normals (VERY IMPORTANT)
Things to know:
blocked blanka balls can be punished with an ex wall dive.
the roll supposedly beats electricity spamming (have yet to confirm for myself, but someone mentioned it earlier and I believe them)
edit:
Non related notes, that I just remembered:
if you have a decent reaction speed, like myself, you can option to KKK flip through Honda’s headbutt (he’ll cross you up and land right in front of you on the opposite side) then land a a fat cr.forward, cr.strong, ex wall dive combo. VERY REWARDING!!! :woot:
ah, thanks for the info. I’ll be honest, I never played ST that much and no one used those 2 on me in CvS2 (Which I didn’t play too seriously) so I dont have too much experience overall against them.
So, I can confirm, EX walldive doesn’t juggle after a regular flip kick. I tried it at all sorts of times while they were in the air, but it just wouldn’t land. So… I’m very sad. I’m still unsure if you can juggle into an ultra, but I know for SURE that if you were to try, you best be right against the wall. If it is possible, it’s impossible to do it midscreen. Some sad times tonight. :sad:
edit:
[media=youtube]2ZqmUtmz_CM[/media]
Some footage of me playing Dentron, a well renowned Fuerte player in SoCal. I’m missing links left and right, but I guess lady luck was on my side.
Lol at Fuerte running away from walldives and that’s…annoying if you play Vega.
Nice one,Bebop,i think it’s the first Vega match against Fuerte that i saw.
thanks for the clarification it definitely looks like an overhead and would be the perfect additions to claw and his low poke mixups.
As for the comboing the ultra, I have a huge suspicion that we might be able to land it after a lunge kick (df hk). I have been able to combo nearly all of claws moves after it so I wouldn’t see why the ultra would not. If its a timing issue then maybe its corner dependent. Either way it will hopefully give us a way to land an ultra.
The matchup vs Fuerte is almost as annoying as a Claw Mirror, with neither side really being able to catch the other. I’ve only really played a couple good Fuertes (N0thingman was quite fun), and I can tell you, if Fuerte has a lead in damage, be prepared to chase him all over the place. It gets annoying real quick-like.
depends on the spacing and on the button used basically if both hits of the scissors hits really deep on block then you can punish. Mess around with it after awhile it gets easy to tell, but most of the time a good player wont space it wrong unless its a close ex, which is (risky) used as throw bait, since it cant be thrown.
Okay been playing allot more at my arcade lately couple things I noticed. You can combo df hk into crouching hp. It doesn’t give you knockdown but it takes more damage off rather then df hk into slide. Sagat and Gief just kill claw, my god these match ups are ridiculous. On the positive note, claw does okay against Chun, and Abel. You can cross up on wake up with df hk over them but its fairly easy to see coming, might work if your opponent is half awake. Claw owns Air to Air on just about every character in this game. I haven’t gotten Jumping hp or hk to cross up, but I heard you could, anybody get this to work? There was a player in my arcade who got 2nd with claw in the last tournament, going to see if I can mirror match him and I’ll post up a mini style comparison between us.
That cr.fierce combo off the df.rh is really interesting stuff; the reset is very good for mixup. Something that you might want to try out, although I’m not sure how the damage compares, is df.rh, rh. flipkick. I connected it on Gief several times, but didn’t get the opportunity to try it on anyone else; so i’m not sure if it’s character specific.
The Gief and Sagat matchups, from what I believe, are in Claw’s favor. I actually think this is how the overall balance of the game comes into effect. Claw has difficulty with a good number of people, and has been listed by several sources as one of the worst characters in the game, but he somehow has an advantage over these two characters (who are seemingly the best in the game). I’ll try and be brief with what you should probably do regarding those particular matchups:
Gief: Jumping fierce is hands down, your best move. Jumping back fierce on Gief’s wakeup is VERY good, since it either puts them in block stun or hit stun, and it doesn’t seem like he can follow you aftewards. Also, j.fierce beats stuffs lariat on startup, so jumping back with it on your opponents wakeup seems like a totally safe move at the moment. Gief doesn’t seem to have any safe ways to close distance on you, other than banishing flat, but that can be punished (AT ANY LEVEL) on block. So, just sit back and footsie them (st.forward and st.rh own!) until they get frustrated enough to jump, and you get two free rh. flip kicks. Also, if you’re getting lariat pressure, wait for the initial hit to be blocked or wiffed, and you can option to EX flip kick. It knocks them away and allows you to create your “safe-zone” again. If Gief begins to corner you, you can wall dive behind you and try to fly to the opposite side. He can follow up with a banishing flat to chase after you, but you always have j. back fierce if the situation gets tight.
Sagat: cr. strong is very good for this matchup. If you run into fireball spamming, ex sky claw is a good answer to that. Flip kicks seem to work very well on him as an anti air… for some reason. If you block a meaty tiger knee, you can cr.short into a combo or kara throw. btw, I haven’t seen the frame data from the master guide, but I think cr.short is faster than cr.jab. Could be wrong… that’s just how it seems to me.
In conclusion, when I play these two characters, I feel like Ono has a good sense of humor; making Vega the anti god-tier character.
Regarding Vega’s air-to-air game, he does have good priority over most everyone in the cast… everyone except Chun. She jumps higher, has better priority (at least against Vega), and even has an air throw. So, at this point, it seems like she’s the best character in terms of air-to-air. She was probably designed that way since she doesn’t really have an anti-air move.
J.fierce as a cross up will only work on fat characters like Gief, Honda, Rufus, and I think Abel, but the distancing and timing on it is sooooo strict. The good news is, it’s very ambiguous. i.e. you hit them from behind, but you land in front of them.
I feel definitely feel Vega can fight gief and has a little advantage like you said, but I don’t have enough experience in it. I still haven’t fought that many sagat players to test but I think sagat still has an edge over claw.
A few questions, in what cases would people use st. forward over c.strong, I’m still using mostly c.strong since that move has always been “the vega move”. I’m guessing st. forward is a bit faster or has better recovery?
Also I hear a lot of people(at least you always mention this move) using flipkicks as anti air or to punish certain stuff. I’m used to moving around or walking back and forth a lot so I’m barely charging for that move, should I be taking more of a defensive approach when I’m winning?
Just curious, how do you see the Abel matchup? Walldives get beaten in the air by his j.lp, and blocked walldives get punished by rekkas (which of course SADC to c.Fierce to Ultra), and command grab can get real tiresome to deal with.
I really enjoy the Abel matchup for a number of reason.
Most Abel players are looking for their mk into dash cancel into mix ups. Fortunately for us we have plenty of pokes that are longer ranged and keep us out of its range. Meaning that he wont be able to dash up shenanigans with his dash up mix up. Also if you ever get caught up for some reason in his mix ups you can mash on kkk if he tries to throw at that point (command throw or otherwise), he gets a wiff animation you can then punish. Another reason why I like this matchup is that is that Abel has no Shoryu, meaning that you don’t have to worry about eating dragon punches from your long range pokes. Finally another reason why I like this matchup is that Abel AA is about some of the worst in the game, claw is free to jump as he likes. I typically do not use wall dives that often but it can be useful on knock downs or when you are cornered.
thank you for the input going to run down why I’m have problems with these two matchups
Gief- His pokes and footsie are surprisingly very good when he walks towards you he’s like a walking wall of priority. Worse yet if he hits or wiffs! with one of his pokes it puts him in spd range. Also for some reason much of his pokes combo for good damage (wtf). So my game plan up until now was to bait him into jumping towards me in the air where I can certainly beat him out . I did this by stay just outside of his poke range and back dashing until he jumps, then punishing. unfortunately the Giefs here are not as dumb as the character so, after several rounds they would just stop jumping in and just continue to walk forward with pokes until my Claw was cornered at which point its absolute murder. His lk into lariant, and spd’ and no where to go in the corner is= to one dead claw.
I definitely agree though jumping hp is your friend, however I tend to like it on wakeups after knockdowns (which are hard to get). Even Worse is how little damage you do to the Russian he can be hitting him forever until he lands a lucky poke into combo knocks you down and then you find yourself in the death zone (corner) for more rape.
As for Sagat
His range ability to zone and keep you out, amazing AA fireball spam, crazy priority on his knee and his overall ability to beat almost everything I do is frustrating to say the least.
After reading your post I’m definitely going to try flip kick to deal with lariat pressure in the corner. Definitely a good point I tend to Kara throw poorly spaced tiger knees, however I didn’t know you can combo off crouching short, cr s into what? You bring up some good point I will fiddle around with it and post up if there’s any change.
From what I can tell, st.forward comes out faster than st.strong; so it can be used as a counter poke measure for Gief. Also, st.rh is slightly slower, but will often hit Gief twice. st.strong, on the other hand, gets beaten out by Gief’s standing strong… I think, or was that cr.strong? Either way, Gief has a normal, I forgot which one, but it beats out st.strong pretty badly.
YES! It’s fun to rush down with Vega, but it’s not usually the best strategy. When you’re in the lead, sit on it. Make them come to you.
st.forward and st.rh are good footsies against Gief, but like, only against him. Oddly, it doesn’t work as well against shotos, although it was the go-to poke in games prior. I still stand by my claim that Gief should have difficulty closing distance on you. If you’re patient, you can usually bait him into throwing out a banishing flat (to either cover distance or as a counter poke), and as I’ve said before, banishing flat can be punished at any level, including EX. My usual way of punishing is, cr.strong, ex wall dive.
Also, if you’re having trouble getting out of the corner, I would suggest either walldiving behind you and flying to the other side of the screen, or ex walldiving in front of you (which gives damage options and is safe on block).
Sagat is scary, but only at close range; and Vega has a good number of tools to keep Sagat at poking distance. If you run into a turtling fireball spammer, don’t get frustrated. Just remember that hiis fireballs can be avoided with a combination of vertical jumps, flips, and ex sky claws. Spamming fireballs with Sagat is by no means safe, especially against Vega. This means that your opponent is going to be looking for ways to get in. After you evade a fireball or two, be looking for his approach. Remember that flip kicks are very good AA’s against sagat, and cr.strong can be used to stuff a good number of his moves (at the right distance, of course).
cr.short can be linked into cr. jab, which can be linked into cr. strong, which (from what I’ve come to understand) can combo into an EX walldive an pretty much every character.
I’ve very rarely had problems with Sagat players. Sagat’s size makes him combo-bait, flipkicks for some reason ALWAYS hit Sagat clean (like Bebop says), and as long as you’re at your maximum range, your pokes will beat his (if you’re in closer than sweep range, Sagat’s pokes will almost always beat yours, save for your c.Jab). You should be able to consistently punish random Tiger Knees.
With Gief, having a charged Ultra means his lariat game is shut down. Of course, you have few, if any options if you’re already cornered, so you’ll probably have to spend a lot of meter to prevent that from happening in the first place. In a way, it’s kind of like a vs. Urien matchup in 3s where you do everything possible to prevent Urien from throwing your ass into a corner.
jk… kinda. Anyways, allow me to elaborate. The matchup is difficult because Blanka can spam electricity to beat: