I 100% agree. Wasn’t trying to say anything should be nerfed, etc. Sometimes I feel the forums are a toxic place for people to vent their frustrations. I think a character’s potential is determined by the player’s willingness to put work in.
Obviously, tiers exist. But SFV feels balanced enough that any character can win.
It’s true, any character can win - as long you don’t run into a bad match-up, and there are bad match-ups in this game - very apparent ones. That’s when you simply have to rely on your opponent lacking matchup knowledge, or just simply making mistakes.
Also, @DrKatz you said Vega has better range in the Chun matchup - how exactly? Vega’s fw.HP is basically banned in this matchup, if that’s what you’re thinking.
Chun’s cr.MK hits low, can be cancelled, and makes Vega’s pokes seem mediocre - and her cr.MP goes under Vega’s pokes. I don’t need to explain what her st.HP does.
Her 9 frame Kikoken will blow up any button you use from what you might think is a safe range.
The thing is, even *without *all the above - even if Vega held the crown in terms of pokes…it still doesn’t mean anything when he has no V-meter>Super ready. He gets no damage otherwise…simple as that. You don’t get rewarded for outspacing your opponent and getting a hit - if the meter is not there. Chun on the other hand gets damage AND stun, which is being overlooked I think.
With Vega, yes you land your standing Mp into V-trigger - you get OK damage and guess what, no stun. It’s almost like you didn’t hit them at all.
Look at the stun bar when Cammy,Ryu,Chun etc etc lands a hit into V-trigger.
I think that plays a huge role.
I never understood why Chun-Li even has a fireball to begin with.
I was mostly thinking about s.MP as your primary poke, if she starts low profiling it - you can cr.MP to catch her. But you’re right, you don’t get anything off of either poke without v-trigger. It’s a shame it doesn’t add stun.
I understand bad MUs exist. I come from GG, which is an extremely matchup dependent game. But I like to believe that no MU is unwinnable. To me, SFV doesn’t feel as polarizing in its MUs compared to older, less balanced fighters. Regarding the Chun MU, I feel it’s possible to win even if she knows the MU. But you simply need to outplay and out predict the other player completely.
"Revisiting a piece Eurogamer put together a little ways back, we wanted to focus on a statement from Street Fighter 5’s battle director, Ryuichi ‘Woshige’ Shigeno.
Noting that the game had only been out for a few weeks at the time of the interview, Woshige mentioned that it had been interesting watching how the community plays the characters they designed.
“There are some fights I’ve seen that have totally blown away my expectations for how to use a character,” said Woshige.
It’s not all sunshine and roses though for high level play in the FGC.
“At the same time, I’ve seen characters being used in ways that make me think people just haven’t experimented enough yet,” added Woshige.
He expressed that the development team who worked on Street Fighter 5 went out of their way to make each character’s moves effective, but the way to use those moves might not be readily apparent.
“Like I say, we’ve worked to make sure we didn’t put in ineffective moves, but that doesn’t mean all the effective ways to use each move are immediately obvious,” Woshige concluded."
considering the game is going to its 3rd month, i guess there are tons of characters used in some wrong way. And maybe vega is included, I simply can’t find excelent vega matches. Even Nemo (who I think is the best at the moment)
Vega would be fine if they’d fix his hit boxes and didn’t remove everything shown in the reveal trailer. Remember when we could target combo off stance change? Or combo c.MK into c.LK and cancel that into something?
Right now the biggest issue IMO is his pokes have shit hit boxes. Plus s.MP is too slow at 8 frames of start up. I wish it was 6, it would become so much more useful.
I understand feeling disgruntled about hitboxes, hurtboxes and the like. But do you think we should focus on optimizing the character first before calling for nerds/buffs? Just seems more productive in my opinion. I’m not trying to attack anyone or be negative.
The saying goes you can polish a turd… It’s the same here. We can master shitty hit boxes but at the end of the day they’re still shitty hit boxes.
We have almost one year ahead of us before any balance changes happen. There’s no point in calling for buffs now. Better continue to gather knowledge about the character and use that knowledge, if necessary, later when the balance period begins to argue our points about what changes should be made.
This is us gathering knowledge. We take the good and the bad and talk about it. I’m not gonna pretend Vega’s FBA follow-up is useful when it can be anti-aired by every normal in the game. I’m not gonna keep quiet about his cr.MK having the same range as his freaking cr.lk, just cos it’s gonna take a year for Capcom to do something about it.
I’m at the stage where I never choose Vega in some matches - but I know he can do very well in others so I try to stay sharp with him.
The character has many faults and his biggest is definitely his inability to combo properly.
I’ve lost matches to Birdie because I punished his shenanigans with cr.MP into ex roll - guess what happened, EX roll didn’t connect cos it’s too slow and Birdie was further away than usual.
Vega’s EX Ase is almost useless in combos because, again, it doesn’t connect from even slightly away.
I mean, why give him a crush counter when he can’t follow up with anything? I’m using a move that’s minus a ton on block, and even when I get a counterhit, I get no reward? Then you have Bison who can crush you with his +3 st.HK on block and get fat combos every time. I dunno how much thought went into all that.
I’d rather just not have a tool at all, then have a broken one. At least that way I wouldn’t waste my time thinking it’s workable. Get rid of fw.HP altogether I say.
I have no problems against mika or karin
mika’s tend to do any sort of action right after having their st.mp blocked for some reason
its -2 on block so a cr.MP will hit her for sure if she tries to do anything other than block
i keep her at st.mp range and she has a floaty jump so my stHK lands easily
st.mp will beat out her charged hk since it seems like it hits on the last active frame
only problem i have with her is her crouching hp when it’s plus on block
i try to avoid that move at all costs
have to adjust according to the matchup
vega is actually a really really bad matchup for laura
i main laura since release and vega has everything he needs to beat laura
we can run some sets if you want laura matchup experience
hopefully you are US or canada
Don’t forget, it’s really dependent on the skill of the player, not where the character is placed in the tier list.
@af0 e.ASE is good for extra damage where ASE would normally combo. Plus you can combo into it from c.LP.
It’s good for juggle combos so it’s not completely useless…but when you want to connect on crouching opponents from cr.LP, you have to be pretty close to make it work. There are punishes where your lights are the only option…and too often there’s too much pushback for light roll or ex ASE to connect after cr.lp.
And even if they’re -6, cr.MP isn’t very satisfying as a punish.
If they’re -6 then use s.HP into m.ASE or stance change. Not guaranteed but it is a +2 frame gap for you. c.MP really needs some more utility, it needs to cancel, because it only being useful when we have full v.trigger is balls.
I find Vega’s super stops Chun Li from throwing fireballs from 3/4 screen. It’s way better at this than I thought it would be. Or at least it should, otherwise you’ve just got to take the super and pressure afterward.
It’s even better against Bison’s fireball. He doesn’t do it often but because he’s taller, the super hits him from even further away than normal it seems. I hit him from quite far once, and thought they buffed Vega’s super with 1.02. Then I remembered Bison’s taller so that’s why it hit.
It’s pretty difficult to punish Chun’s fireball with super cos she has so much mobility. You’ll be buffering and she can just dash forward cr.MK into legs. It’s hard enough to try and keep up with the ground game against her.
Yeah, that’s very true. The footsies are brutal with her, but I find her fireball most obnoxious up close or far away.
I’ve just been watching some Flash Metroid Vega v chun, as this game’s new, and we don’t have TOO many high-level vega match-up videos yet. He manages to land that at that 3/4’s screen where a Chun feels entitled to throw a fireball. I haven’t tried it on Bison’s psycho-blast, though, looking forward to giving that one a go.
I haven’t played many good Chuns, just having gotten 800 points into gold or so consistently, so I’ll have to find one to practice against to get the real sense of what you’re talking about. I still get away with a lot of garbage on the ones I play, so I don’t know the match-up yet.
Claw punishes are ass from lights. Clawless you can get s.mp xx roll from a lot a ranges. To get decent damage you have to use meter when in claw.
Yeah forward + fierce is meh. You get a super, sweep, or V-trigger. So basically a sweep IF you are in range. Super isn’t really a option either since you have to do it pretty close. Always use s.mp xx roll when it will work vs c.mp since if moves you forward.
A friend of mine has really leveled up his Fang game. went from me destroying this guy from week 1-4 to not even being able to take a game off of him late.
I have 3 first to 2 sets here and I’ll put my thoughts about what i struggled with or just fucked up with, but maybe some of you guys can provide insight on to what I can punish or change about how i approach the matchup? I think fang is a strong character but I feel like I should have the advantage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZOHsKnlMN8
I get hit out of my meaty throw on knockdown all the time
What are some good meaty setups off of slide or ct?
he hits me with cr HK a lot… just outpoking me or something.
I assume that if he knocks me down, i should just do slow wake up to avoid that poison cloud dash setup. any other options?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_00ShbGAmo
i fucked up ont he dizzy combo at 5:10 or so and i messed up on some light hit confirms and i swear i blocked standing at the end, but besides that
when can i stop these block strings? after st hp? after cr mp? he seems too far for me to punish and convert into damage
his st hk is +1 and he has only 4 frame lights. shouldn’t i be able to trade with st lk? at 5:50 it does not work for me
any setups if my opponent decides NOT to quick rise or back rise? i dont have any real meaty timings if my opponent decides to not wake up with the quick options