I wonder if they will make it unsafe on block. I sure as hell hope not.
Vega looks strong so far but not ridiculous. I hope the gamescom stuff doesn’t end up like a location test of sorts with people complaining about him and Capcom giving him the nerf treatment before the game is out. CT looks good, being safe on block and allowing frame trap pressure. CT seems like the only tool he has to get around fireballs and the zoning game, since react jumping doesn’t seem to be a thing since the CvS2 days. CT looks like his way to get in and poke poke poke. It also seems like his main tool outside his usual pokes and footsies that he uses to push the opponent into the corner, since he no longer has ST for an AA to pop them up and away or CH to move forward and pop them up and ST to follow up. I can’t imagine them nerfing it in its current state, especially since spamming it gets you dead.
Of course, his ranged game looks good, but EX.FBA , EX.ASE, and Bloody Kiss get shut down by fireballs. Moves that go through fireballs like Necalli’s The Disc’s Guidance go through Bloody Kiss kind of shut down that option raw. I haven’t checked out Cammy and Birdie yet, but from what it seems, they’re giving non-fireball characters tools to get around projectiles. Necalli’s TDG can gain him a lot of space for a good read or reaction, so I don’t think it’s out of the question that they’d be against Vega (or any other character) doing the same.z
it’s funny how some people are complaining about Vega not being Vega because of his control scheme, yet Bison’s walk speed got hit significantly. To me, that’s a much larger change to the character. I feel bad for Bison players, that walk speed is like Seth awful. Maybe it’s to compensate for his fireball, but Alpha Bison had a fireball and he was fast, too :’( Now I’m not sure I want to try Bison anymore. I don’t think I could deal with how slow he is, he’s like Seth now. Good jump arcs, fast jumps, good dash, lots and lots of tools, but really slow walk speed.
Can’t he Matador Turn fireballs? Pretty sure I saw him do it to Ryu a few times.
I think CT comes into play at longer distances, plus it actually gets you in where as you’d probably use MT to stay where you are and keep the opponent at bay. Can you link to the Ryu matches? I don’t think I’ve seen those yet. Only vs Charlie and Necalli.
Off topic, but I really don’t see how bison is like seth at all man. He seems to be all about controlling the space right in front of him with large hitboxes. He seems more like a corner-carry/lockdown frametrap type of character. If his walk speed were faster he would probably be borderline broken. Seth was more about breaking the street fighter fundamentals and being all over the place. God, I hate seth.
I don’t think the 道 (road) kanji is supposed to be the dou in 雷道 Raidou.
This makes more sense to me:
波動拳 Hadouken > 雷動拳 Raidouken > 雷動 Raidou
So basically Electric Motion Fist?
Has anyone messed around with Ryu’s EX fireball at all? If so, how does it compare to the ones that he has in SF4/3S?
I wish he would get Red Impact back. My favorite thing was snatching someone up through their fireball.
I want Sky High Claw, it was a nice mix up tool with FBA.
Sky High Claw was useless. The only use out of it was EX SHC as a full screen projectile punish. And even for that mixup, you only mixup EX FBA/EX SHC to steal the last round. Then it will never work on that person again.
Absolutely useless. The only time it really works is for chip out wins when you EX.SHC cross up to their wall, and that too depends on their distance from the wall. If they can’t react fast enough, then you win from chip since they can’t block it. Even as a full screen fireball punish it sucks, especially against the likes of Guile, Sim, or DeeJay, what with that super fast fireball recovery. They get to block and/or punish the move for free. Why anyone would ever want that move back is beyond me. His Aurora Slash Edge will be a much better tool in its place, and since there is no chip out there is absolutely no reason to use or want SHC ever again.
@General_Awesomo it looks like Vega has the top mobility in the game. Definitely can see why he was changed to motion.
Not that off topic, since we’re within context of character changes that piss people off.
Bison reminds me of Seth because of his fast and really good jump arc, his block strings, combos, fireball and zoning game, and super slow walk speed. Other than that, no, he doesn’t have SRK or whatever and no Sim limbs, but maybe you get the idea of the comparison now. Also, maybe Bison is using old Seth clone bodies? Who knows. Definitely agree though, all the new tools he has, if he could walk fast he would probably break the game, but seeing him walk that slow is pretty heartbreaking.
Edit: Hmm, considering his range in the game, and the fact he isn’t even top tier range, makes me think Sim or Necro are going to be in. They’re probably the only characters who will out range him, either them, or Hugo. Either that, or they plan on a new really long range character. Unless they’re counting fireballs.
You’re talking about it in terms of SF4. I was referring to the general concept of the special, which I don’t think should’ve been completely abandoned. It could’ve been merged with FBA the way Devil’s Reverse was merged with Head Stomp. Or some other creative reimagination of its basic idea.
But yes, in SF4 EX SHC was the only good thing out of it.
Doesn’t M. Bison’s walk speed get boosted with his V-Trigger? And I find it funny how he lost his old s.HK, yet Vega kept pretty much all his range, even his old s.HP in the form of DF+HP. But that was a design choice to have M. Bison be about smart pressure and not one button pressure and keepaway.
Ah, but even as a reworked special move, I wouldn’t expect that aerial horizontal special move to turn out to be useful. If anything, I would prefer the FBA cancel from HDR (didn’t really play HDR, was it kind of OP?) or Rose Thorn (FBA dive kick) from Omega Mode. Rose Thorn was fun.
Bison has** 4 points** in his mobility stats (1 less than Vega) for a reason, and he is easily in the best form he has been in since CvS2. Bison mains have it among the best IMO and we get to keep our tried and true mechanical play style.
Off the top of my head, they could’ve made SHC have a variety of angles based on strength of punch used, where only the HP version would go horizontal full screen after the wall jump, while the LP, and MP versions would strike at steeper diagonal angles (almost like dive kicks). That’s just 1 idea, at the very least they could’ve made it into a downsized aerial command-normal of some sort, something Vega could do off a wall jump but wouldn’t be as strong.
I think Rose Thorn would’ve been great as an alternative to FBA’s Claw Attack in Sheathed stance.
Kind of like Dhalsim’s Yoga Mummy (j.D+HP) and Yoga Spear (j.D+K) unique attacks, only faster? Hmm, that could have been interesting.
SHC has always sucked, ever since the introduction of the move. It’s meant for air to air but is pretty bad at that, too. In SF2, the damn thing is punishable ON HIT. At least in SF4 it knocked down, but still. It’s still fucking worthless. Trash move and always has been. I don’t think it was any better in A3 or CvS2. The thing is, while SHC was better in SF4 for ground opponents, the air to air priority was pure ass and it was super slow on top of that.
The problem with trying to fix it is that you could give him an entirely more useful special in its place. He already has air to air attacks and an air throw, plus FBA goes really high in this game meaning if they jump at us, they better have an attack that hits upwards. Vega’s air game looks solid. You can hit under, in front, above, or behind. He doesn’t need SHC. Instead, I like the idea of ASE, a long range special that will build meter the more you use it between pokes. I’d rather have that than SHC.
The one thing I did like about SHC was in Omega mode, you could use light to neutral jump fireballs and build meter. Pretty handy tool. Just don’t press punch after doing the input, unless you want to eat an anti-air or get punished on block.
@General_Awesomo HDR FBA sucked. You could cancel it with any K button after you left the wall. The only match it kinda helps in is the Guile match. Guile got a lot of extra range and forward momentum on his heavy Flash Kick, which if they kept FBA the way it was in ST, would have meant easy punish for empty FBA. In ST, you could empty FBA to your heart’s desire and there wasn’t much he could do about it. Funny that they buffed the FK in retaliation to that and then pretty much canceled that buff with fake FBA. In HDR, the biggest hurt to FBA was no knock down. It completely killed the move. They could have made FBA do a soft knock down instead which would have killed the wall dive loop and still allowed Vega to bait the wake up game or attempt a risky meaty or a tick throw setup. Depending on how you hit with FBA, you could get severely punished in the wrong match up. Too close, and you can get thrown or SPD, but if you catch them off guard you can throw. The only really good use FBA had was to knock opponents out of the air or use the priority on the tip of the claw and aim it to hit someone on the ground at a distance. Still won’t beat out reversal options but it did get you some damage. Fake FBA didn’t really make all that much of a difference in most matches. HDR Vega should really be played on the ground. Some match ups got a lot harder, like the Bison match, because you couldn’t loop the fucker and he definitely has better air to air options.
Very good examples, thank you. But faster like you said and preceded by the traditional wall jump which plays into the whole mix up thing.