Odd… I’ve rarely encountered Duds that don’t have elbow or ducking as their primary way to get in
Makoto’s axe kick will own Vega’s cHP and jHP will still beat all of Vega’s air to air options.
The Cody and sakura matches will get noticibly harder against Vega but no more than 6-4. And that’s with all those buffs against the current versions. Besides… sakura’s cMK xx SRK is brain dead anyway.
I believe that Vega having superior normals in the ground game and in the air game (AA) is really fair and reasonable with the trade off of having a shit wake up game/defense. The “Makoto, Cody, Dudley and Sakura” characters are pretty much monsters against vega wake up.
The balance im talking about is, it’s gonna be hell to get on a vega player and it’s gonna be hell for a vega player to get the person off when the person finally gets in, that’s the balance i always wanted Vega to have in this game cuz he’s a categorized "keep away character.
Just let him be a god in the keep away while making him one of the weakest mortals against CQC pressure and set ups.
And everybody gets in on everybody, i doubt that if vega does get godlike keep away footsies normals that every single vega player is gonna be walking away with PERFECTS in both rounds 5, 10, or even 20 games straight, he’s gonna be hit and knocked down, that’s a guarantee, unless you’re right 100% of the time, if a person like that even exists…
Also I believe having a OP keep away character wouldn’t even make the character OP in the game with all these good offensive pressuring characters in this game.
Dudley eats crMK all day if he tries to do that. Hell, Dudley eats crMK all day if he stays in that range. Period.
If Makoto tries to jump in with Axe Kick, it loses badly to ST. If Makoto tries to couter poke with Axe Kick and we don’t poke, she gets whiff punished. Good Makoto’s will get in via crMP xx Hayate, because a good Claw will spam some crMKs to put the dash in option in check. And her jiHP is easily dealt with. Its not like its a jump in from Gen.
But man, fuck those guys. Its not like we need help against them anyway.
The problem is that I see you guys talking how you think Vega needs to be based on an ideology alone, while completely lacking a thought in the matchups.
Sagat Akuma Cammy and Duds (sorry I don’t see any match other than Blanka as favorable to Vega) it would help the most although like I said. A poke like Oni’s with sMK would have to come with a lot more.
But you specifically asked pedo so I’ll defer to him
I can’t imagine too many situations where I would both have charge and be able to react to instant air axe kick with ST… and the only tool I’ve seen that beats jHP is jump back MP… and gives up a lot of space. Being cornered against makoto ain’t fun.
As for Duds I guess I don’t use cMK enough cause that’s for the most part how they get in on me. I’ll increase my reliance on it and see what happens
Well, I am thinking exactly a poke like Oni’s. Not a poke with the range of 1/3 screen and counter poke-proof.
Instant Tsurugi is done when they are trying to hit some poke of yours (mosty crMP). Which means its a counter poke. Like I said, you don’t ST that, you whiff punish.
The Tsurugi that is done jumping at you (by trying to mess up with your AA timing) is when ST shines always hitting it for a counter hit.
If you react fast enough you can at least trade with her jiHP while using LK ST. Its a good trade as it gives momentum, a reason to her not do an empty jump and she has less stamina than you anyways. Depenging on the spacing you can even juggle with EX ST.
Also, poking Sakura with PoM is a good idea because if you get counter poked with crMK she is dead. You know… mostly like it will be buffered into HP SRK, so yeah, big time punish. The problem is if she start a focus and you poke with that… then you are dead. I always liked the idea of a double hit PoM with 40*40 dmg and a at least +2/-2. But like I said there is no more room for dreams.
“(sorry I don’t see any match other than Blanka as favorable to Vega)”. Makes me regret being here and wonder why the hell I am arguing on a forum.
t.hawk and hakan comes to mind as favouable. dhalsim and guile as well. that’s it, haha
What other characters are weak on both offense and defense Remove the player vs player factor and it all boils down to options, which compared to everyone except blanka, he’s weaker than. How many matches have you played where you can honestly say that the character carried you through a loss into a win? How many situations have you encountered where the opponent has to actually work harder than you for the win? How many matches does Vega have where the risk vs the reward is in Vega’s favor?
That’s not to say that Vega can’t win every matchup. Its not to say he doesn’t have any tools. It just means it’s easier for the opponent to win than it is for Vega to win.
And iono what’s up with you lately, but until you have something to show for it you really need to get off this elitist attitude you picked up. You put out good info but It really doesn’t matter how good the info is if you can’t have a simple civil discussion without getting bent out of shape simply because their idea (or what you THINK is their idea) doesn’t match yours.
How the hell I am suposse to have a civil discussion with someone that doesn’t have the least idea of what I know and claims that I am scrub and should listen to him because he is one of the guys THAT MADE VEGA COMPETITIVE? For fuck sake. And then I have to listen that I have an elitist attitude? Fuck off already.
Now, I also can’t have a serious discussion about how a tool would work on matchups with someone that can only see Blanka as a good matchup (and iirc has that Shia thought that being baited is worse than having to block… which is completely absurd, borderline insane). Their view is obviously too narrow and a more simplier subject should be approached. Like… well, matchups? Don’t know.
If someone thinks that Vega sucks THAT much, its obviously that they will argue that he needs any kind of tool. Not to mention the philosophy that they have that contradicts every damn thing you see in a very high level match.
Clearly, I can be wrong. But so can you, right… right?
Now the point shouldn’t be if Claw needs a move like Oni’s or not. The problem is way, way before that.
I am not going to sit here and discuss these kind of things. So yeah, I think that I am in the wrong place with the wrong people.
This is helping nobody. I will try to lend a hand to the guys when they need it. Also I’ll make a post with everything that I am able to remember of what I created, like unblockables, specific OSs, some calcs and a table halfway done regarding all the matchups with their safe jump and OSs together with their respective hurtbox information and trick setups and update once in a while. This should help me get everything together (it’s a mess here) and actually help someone.
i always wanted to make a table like that! but i’m too bloody lazy and already have most of the things in my head already. the only thing i might not have are “specific character” os’s. i mainly got jump in hp, os cl.hp, or if i’m too far, os with cr.hk. i want to os with cosmic heel, but when i’m close enough to do a cl.hp, i cancel to hp rcf and i want that damn charge!. i gave up on st.lk os to cosmic heel/cr.hk 
WHAT’S ALL THIS SHOUTING WE’LL HAVE NO TROUBLE HERE
What makes it worse is that at that range, it’s easy to walk away and make you whiff. Seriously
It forces him to expose himself and stop using his normals allowing you to dominate the ground game even more effectively by filling more space with hit boxes, forcing him to take more risks to get in. By forcing him to risk more by limiting his options and where can be on the screen with respect to what he can put on the screen, you force him to take very obvious calculated risks that you can then punish. This game is to “mix up/jab” heavy oriented to not have a overpowered footsie game. What takes half the match to establish, goes to waste in less than 20 seconds sometimes, and the risk vs the reward has never favored footsies.
no you can’t frame trap, once your opponent realizes to take the throw, frame traping isn’t as powerful. Vega doesn’t have the offensive options that Ryu, Akuma, Abel, etc have to take advantage of frame trapping. As time goes on, people are simply going to block more and more against Vega. Now if all characters where like Vega with no way to reversal, frame traping would be powerful tool because you could lock the opponent down and force a mistake through pressure, and you would have a very valid point.
LOL, you and I both know that Vega has no rewards for controlling space, that was established at AE first release. You are undervaluing the ability to better control space. Fighting games are about two things and two things only. Controlling the space in front of you, or getting in and forcing the opponent to guess while you remain safe. All characters fall in either or, or are a combination of both with varying degree’s.
and last LOL, Cosmic Heel had a lot of options for offense. throw low game that got more effective with good use of Rolling Crystal Flash to push the opponent to the wall. And that’s where Vega’s ground domination was the strongest because you where the sole proprietor of who was where and when.
due to human error. Just like how they win really easily once they get in, you should be able to win just as easily by keeping them out. Vega should have a ground game as powerful as Zangief’s throw game or Akuma’s “vortex”. It isn’t anywhere near at that level, and it isn’t because the game is supposed to be accessible and cater to a new crowd that wants a fast paced game, it’s why Marvel is so popular, and why Morrigan/Doom is so hated. Vega is at the biggest disadvantage from the very beginning due to the artificial limitations placed on him by the creators to favor offense. Every “fix” since SSF4 has done very little to address his actual problems, space control. Normals that don’t work and don’t have hit box that extends to where they should extend, normals that shift the hurt box forward, lack of vertical space control. the other day, Dudly’s cr.mp beat my already active slide, it happens.
BTW, focus tapping FA during VEga’s block strings works. Stop saying that it doesn’t.
cr.mk isn’t something dudley is always going to eat at max distance, footsies aren’t static. Throwing a normal that beats cr.mk is something that is done and will be done by an opponent who decides to take a risk to get in or make you block so that he can begin pressure.
this isn’t about match ups, I’ve never cared about match ups, because it’s always been about what your character can do, and how well it can do it. It’s like that in every game, what this tool does with respect to others, and how much better it does it than everybody else. Cammy isn’t an issue btw when you realize her throw range is less than or equal too .8 of one of the training squeres. IE, after one jab, stop pushing OS throw.
with Rufus, Yang, Yun, and Adon, controling that vertical space makes those short jump dives obsolete and unsafe because your hit box covers that spot. Cr.mk, and cr.mp do not hit at the range where they jump and do their specials. St.hp is way to slow often and very unsafe, and st.mp and excellent underated and seldom used move simply does not have the range to stop them at their ranges.
Against, Adon, Akuma, Abel, Cammy, Dudley, Zangief, etc, it allows you to put a hit box away from your body and removes your hurt box from the equation. Effectively allowing you to take up space with no risk to you. Cr.mp and cr.mk are terrible at this because they shift the hurt box forward before they even become active, and that’s a liability and problem.
BTW, that unblockable that’s yours, is it the Bluudy High Klu cross up?? Because if it is…news for you.
EDT:
Is the contradiction refering to me saying footsies are weak???
Well they are, when footsie oriented characters with no mix up games play them. Akuma vs Vega, footsies are weak. Compared to, Akuma vs Adon. They aren’t footsie oriented characters, but winning the footsie match is to their advantage and a powerful advantage because they have the tools to take advantage of winning the footsie battle. but pay attention to the footsie battle, either both stay in footsies for the whole match because they don’t have to tools to steam roll the footsie battle and the footsie battle is naturally slow, or only took around 150-250+ damage and we never see footsies again till the next match.
But if this happens when the footsie character is playing, he had nothing to take advantage, except reset the istuation at least 3-5 times to win the match, and every god damn reset is a chance for the opponent to get that in. Vs other matches, where that knockdown leads to mix up death and only needs to reset the situations at minimum 2 more times. This whole game is some stupid ass fucking contradiction where you aren’t rewarded for winning the footsie battle as a footsie character and have to expose yourself again that many times.
Yea I really don’t like How Vega hit box on his claw only cover half, what’s the point of having a long claw when half of it stick through a character model and nothing happens?
not to mention things like chun’s cr.hk or deejay’ cr.hk can go under it…
Ah come on we are way past that, well everyone except pedoviejo 
and this characyer is way past the point of actually being able to win anything of value.
got ya.
That’s a relief, I always thought it was me
Probably a combination of both. I know my execution isn’t amazing, but damn it’s a difficult win especially if they jump.
Love those who proclaim that Vega “has everything he needs” when he hasn’t won anything major.
Especially those who overstate his even and positive matchups, and lightly brush off the negative ones.
For a lot of matchups, Vega has to work hard as fuck while he only needs to derp once to lose.