Ah, I came across something a few weeks ago in locals. Someone was playing Akuma, he was crouching and I hit him with a max range cr.MP and then canceled into EX FBA. Except it whiffed. I was like, what? Of course, because it whiffed, I ate a full teleport Ultra.
Not amused, since I thought cr.MP xx EX FBA always hit shotos, I went into training. Hit him at max distance, and the EX FBA connected. So I can’t figure what the fuck happened, because to my knowledge the Akuma player didn’t do anything out of the ordinary to shift his hurt box forward and then have it shift back after the hit. One of the other players who saw it happen twice that night and we couldn’t replicate it in training. Any ideas?
Why is one of Vega’s most important punishes so fucking unreliable I really loathe this game much of the time.
it’s not realiable on shoto’s at all at max range, unless it’s akuma. i’m surprised it missed on akuma, i never missed that shit. maybe he pushed a button not to lower the hitbox, but shifted his hitbox one he got hit, like how when vega presses cr.mp just when you got frame trapped and people get so far pushed back, they can’t follow up with a counterhit combo
Yeah. I really don’t like U2 or use it often, so I was looking for some of the same utility between the two. I was messing around with W, practicing jumping heavy combo to U2 and accidentally got U1. I was like creams fuuuck yes. Still probably won’t pull it off in a match though, but I was getting AA CH > U1 pretty well. U2 is a much easier input to do though.
It seems to have less utility and can easily be baited and neutral jumped. It also seems to eat fast attacks like jabs, I’ve literally waited for the player next to me to press a button (on a 6 button stick) and did it on reaction, but it eats the input for light attacks and they get to safely block. I’ve even seen start up animations for light attacks get canceled and safely blocked my U2. For heavy attacks, it works ok, but it’s pretty rare much of the cast will use a heavy attack at point blank so in that situation it’s really useless. For some attacks like Hugo’s slaps it doesn’t work at all and he can even safely block whiffing it through your U2 start up, unless you predict he’s going for it and do it before he actually executes the move. A huge risk and a dangerous game to play. Empty jumps eat it alive, and if you’re the slightest bit late using it as an AA reversal then you’re screwed big time and they’ll safely block. If you’re a tad too early, you’ll whiff and in the case of Dudley with meter eat a full screen punish, so in a lot of matches it isn’t even a safe escape.
On the other hand, I can use U1 to go under other players as they jump and hit them on the way down, can go to my wall and eat many jump attacks coming my way from the right distance alive, can nearly full screen punish fireballs, still combo into it with AA CH like U2 and can also jumping heavy attack combo into it as well. Besides a grounded CH to U2, and U2 as a bad reversal, it really doesn’t do anything U1 doesn’t already do.
I’d rather just block than risk it being a poor reversal attempt.
*Edit. Actually, lately I’ve been using W Ultra. Having both helps a lot. U1 to punish bad fireballs, U2 for hit confirm ultra, since it’s easier to do. U1 is easier to AA CH to Ultra will, so, utility and survivability.
“it really doesn’t do anything U1 doesn’t already do.”???
You can’t be serious with this.
U2 is invincible, 7f start-up, sweeps the ground, breaks armor, has much easier input. U1 is not inv, 8f minimum start-up, goes to the air, doesn’t break armor, has a more difficult input. How can they be the same?
If your AA game with cr.hp/st.HK/ST has been on point throughout a match, it’s very unlikely that an opponent will do an empty jump to a crouching Vega just to bait U2. Cause he’ll know he will eat one of those.
Playing with him for years, you should be able to tell when you’re too late to do it in a jump-in. If you’re not, it’s hardly the fault of the ultra.
CH-U2 is much much easier to do than CH-U1.
In order for U1 to break armor, you have to accept a longer start-up and go to your own wall, whereas if you see even the start up of a FA, you can instantly land U2. I don’t how many times they absorbed the first hit of U1 and then they were beneath the slashing line of U1 after the opposite wall.
Any air normal or special will stop U1’s going to the opposite wall part. During any gap between untrue block strings you can punish with U2, but U1 will trade or you won’t even get up to go to your own wall.
It’s so much easier to land on reaction. When the opponent whiffs a huge normal or you just block a move the recovery of which you know you can punish, it takes much less time and effort and start-up to punish it with U2. Try punishing a blocked Dudley ex.MGU with both and see the difference.
When you know the opponent will go for a normal after another normal and there are gaps between them, which is something everyone has to do when they want to put the pressure on, you can land U2, but U1 will get stopped by the latter normal before you even leave the ground.
You have to go to your wall to punish armoured specials.
You can punish a special the start up of which you saw with U2, but the special can reach you and put you down before you even get up with U1. Balrog dash punches come to mind.
It hits many cross-ups when you wait for them to switch sides and do U2 with auto-correct. Whereas U1 will get stopped by the cross up or they will land before you reach to your wall. The main fault of players today is doing it as a reversal against cross-ups on wake-up and it whiffs. Just wait a little.
If you happen to misexecute them (everyone does now and then) U1 will give you an ex.fba, U2 will just give a KKK.
And many many other uses I can’t think of now really put U2 very ahead of U1.
U1 is just better on some fireball spammer chars, Seth and for some, Viper, but that’s about it. You just have to stop expecting miracles from it, like hitting a nearly landed Ryu jump-in.
I mainly use U2 and have many opportunites to land it during nearly all fights, and I know the situations where it won’t land and hold my horses.
@Haztlan , I can’t do that stuff. I can jump in HP/HK to it, but I can’t do the rest, so for me, there isn’t much of a difference in utility. You act like that’s easy for every player to do. Besides, I’m almost 100% going with W which allows me to choose either for both Ultra scenarios at a cost of some extra damage.
U1 input isn’t all that hard. I’ve been doing that input since ST, so no big deal. Not being invincible isn’t a problem when most of the time I’m going to block wake up pressure because 3 frame jabs. Break armor? I have other tools for that. ST, EX SHC, st.HK…
cr.HP as an AA is really hit or miss. Same with the rest of Vega’s AA. I’ve only played this seriously since Ultra was announced, which means a little AE and the rest Ultra. Sure, I can’t blame the Ultra for my lack of hitting jump ins regularly, but I find the window for it is pretty small and I’d rather not take the risk of a blocked U2. I disagree with CH-U2 vs CH-U1 when it’s done as an anti-air. U1 seems a little easier for me to do for some reason.
All the rest of the stuff you wrote, again, I have other tools for armor breaking.
You know, to be fair, I didn’t make the claim U1 was better. I simply noted that hit confirming into U1 from jumping heavy attacks covers some of the utility U2 has. Both can armor break, both can be hit confirmed into via AA CH, both can be hit confirmed into via jumping heavy attacks. So that leaves reversal, counter hit confirm cr.MK, or grounded CH, U2. U2 can’t hit empty jumps while U1 can, U1 can also punish many fireball attempts from nearly full screen, something U2 can’t do. U1 can also hit medium or heavy recovering whiffs at a good bit of distance. I do this to one of my local E.Ryu players sometimes. Each has their own uses, I’m only making the observation that U1 can be used in confirms like U2 can.
Your links prove U2 is more versatile for hit confirms from CH to U2, but reliability in a match when under pressure along with possibility to drop such combos is something to consider when choosing between the 3 Ultra options we have.
You two kind of jumped on me on this subject, especially since I never blamed the Ultra for being difficult to use, only discussing that it is difficult to use
I began my post asking if this was a U1 vs U2 discussion as it seemed like one when I started reading GI post and tbh… I can’t stand this comparison anymore. U2 > U1 in 95%+ of the MUs.
You can also combo U1 or U2 after jump MP and MK or you can combo U2 even off a counter hit jump light kick as well. Jump heavy into either ultra is not hard… but U2 lets you be able to do it even if you hit them high in the air. Like this.
Look at the way you wrote your “question,” as it appears to be more rhetorical than anything and assuming that’s what this was about. Then you linked a bunch of reasons why even the suggestion was wrong. You can see how this comes off as you not legitimately asking a question if this was really about U1 vs U2?
As for the rest, you might be able to do that stuff, but that shit is really difficult to pull off for me at the moment. The heavy stuff not so much now, but I can’t even get the mediums to connect. I can’t get heavy to connect when I hit high, either.
your state of mind is already wrong if you actually complain about reacting to light attacks with ultra. that’s something that’s not important, or a point of discussion. reaction with u1 will always be slower then u2, because of frame difference, and because u1 travel slower. only reason you probably hit someone from “reaction” could most likely be because they aren’t blocking because there is no flash ultra animation. i’m sorry but doing ultra like that is pretty much the same thing as “random” ultra. you need to change your state of mind and stop relying on them not blocking. most light attacks has a total of 12 frames from start to finish. u2 is 7 frames startup. so you need to react within 5 frames oh their startup of their attack. human reaction of a blinking light is 13-15 frames. because moves have no obvious 1st frame startup, your reaction is more likely to be 23-25 frames.
i hear you complain about 3 frame jabs before and people mash you out. you shouldn’t be close enough for them to mash. if they did mash, you should move back and forth the make them whiff and grab them. or frame trap. if 3 frame jabs beat your pokes, then counterpoke instead of challenging them. wait for them to poke, then punish them. stop challenging.
u2 can be used to punish fireball from full screen, just dash ultra like how chun/balrog would. good players would not chuck a fireball from full screen if you have charge and u1. and since you’re full screen, you are no threat, and they will just walk into you and corner you.
you are not going to break armour with st.hk/ST/ex sky claw if they do it outside your st.hk double hit range. input is faster with u2 then with u1.
if you have the reactions to anti air with u1, you have the reaction to always anti air them normally with your other moves. people will not empty jump if your anti air is consistent, and since you can anti air people with u1, you should have godlike reactions to anti air them 100% of the time
I really loathe this game much of the time.