MP version is NOT safe on block on the next-to-last hit. There is a 1-frame gap before the final claw strike.
dunno if it’s been posted, but I fought a Vega the other day with Bison, and pulled off my ultra…he did an ex wall dive (or the other one, don’t really know), and my ultra hit, then got knocked out of itself, while vega went through me, got hit, went to the wall, then dropped.
Keep meaning to retry it in practice, but forget
The new Ultra cross-up for the fireball characters has got me thinking about how others could cross-up on the opponent to perform an ultra. Has anyone tried FBA(no attack), and as soon as you land you have done your Ultra? I’m just thinking of wild ideas to maybe somehow improve some strategy for some characters, that’s all. XD
Did you guys know that after a df.hk -> ST if you immediately dash, then press up for neutral jump you are going to be able to do a perfect nj.rh just when the opponent wakes up after teching their knockdown?
yep
one thing i do in practice all the time is the ST, dash, neutral jump, close fierce RCF
it’s hard but really helps you ppractice stringing into RCF, what sucks is against some chars yo uhave to walk forward a little distance (sagat, rog) because their get-up animations push you out a tad
I don’t know if anyone has discussed this but OS throw at the very last frames of the animation of df.rh (Cosmic Heel) makes it very safe and quite possibly Claws best poke (timing is tricky). It’s the reason why you see top Claw players from Japan use the move so frequently (e.g. Makoto, Cat-K@???). Coupled with his great Kara throw, and you have a solid pressure game close range.
Like I said, I don’t know if this has been discussed but I really don’t see any Claw players abuse it as much as they should. If this hasn’t been discussed, I’ll probably post a video demonstrating it’s ridiculous effectiveness (or you can just watch the SBO 09 match with Makoto/Dan vs Ojisanboy/Tokido where Makoto took out the other team on his own).
Just throwing it out there…
We already know of this, and quite a lot of players use it… but I never knew this is an OS.
Yeah. You have to OS the throw at around the ending frames of the df.rh animation. This way your cr.lk won’t come out but if your opponent goes for a throw right away, you’ll still tech it. If they go for anything else (reversal dp, cr.lp, etc.) you’ll be blocking. If your opponent goes for the throw but is a few frames off(i.e. goes for the throw late), then you’ll probably get thrown, so you have to be ready to tech late throws normally (It takes practice to get it down consistently).
The best way to do this is to OS throw at the end of df.rh, wait a split second and then OS throw again. This way you’ll pretty much cover all options. You’ll tech any throw, and still hold block if your opponent goes for a reversal. If your opponent doesn’t do anything, you’ll merely poke with a cr.lk.
If I have time, I’ll post a video. Maybe it’ll be easier to understand it that way.
Ah, I get it already. But this is only a post df.hk throw OS. It’s not like there’s an OS that punishes the cr.lk (throw tech attempt) with a df.hk but makes a kara throw come out when your opponent is only blocking, right? Like, I don’t know… LP+LK ~ DF.HK?
This sounds interesting, I don’t really get how the OS throw counts before the CH is done animating though… I mean if the cr lk doesn’t come out does that mean that the throw command stays active for extra frames while the lk either activates on the first frame or doesn’t come out at all? I’ll look forward to seeing a video to understand it better.
That’s right. The main use for it is to make df.rh safe on block and not leave Claw at a disadvantage (i.e. put him at the end of a guessing game). If you don’t OS the throw, then your left guessing what the opponent is going to do. Whether he is going to go for a throw or for a reversal. Backdashing when df.rh is blocked is a viable option but against characters with reversal DPs that catch back dashes, it can be hard. At least this way, no need for guessing.
Haha, having an OS that kara throws those who block but df.rh when they go for a OS throw attempt would be beastly. I doubt Claw can do that. At least, I would love it if he can.
Your left at -1 if you don’t space your CH. So if your opponent goes for a throw the moment he is able to, and you inputted your lp+lk on the last frame, you will tech the throw. I believe the reason is because we have about 6~7 frame leeway to tech throws via OS(I think it’s dependent on how fast cr.lk comes out, not sure though), and 10 frames to tech throws regularly (I think that was the case, someone please correct me if I’m wrong. I can hardly remember the numbers…!). So it would make sense because technically you’re inputting the throw when your opponent goes for the throw himself. Your merely taking advantage that you are at -1 frames on block.
This is assuming when you don’t space your CH. If you do space it perfectly, you wont be at a - disadvantage post block. But once you OS throw this way after you use your CH, then regardless of spacing, you’ll still cover all options.
Best way to understand this is visually. Choose Ryu in training mode with Claw as your opponent. Record Claw to walk up to your Ryu and use CH point blank. At the very last frames of CH, input your OS throw (lp+lk). Make sure your cr.lk doesn’t come out. If it comes out, you did it wrong. Now, have Claw on playback. After you block, go for the throw as soon as you can. If you inputted your OS throw with Claw at the ending frames of your animation and if you went for the throw immediately, you’ll see Claw tech the throw. The timing is kinda tricky to nail on your own. But you’ll understand everything when you see Claw tech the throw with no cr.lk come out.
That’s all there is to it. Once again, if you want to understand it’s effectiveness in a match, watch Cat-K’s Balrog (Claw). He performs it so well, almost never punished post df.rh.
Cool, I’ll try it out. Thanks alot for the explaination!
This is going into the matchup guide. Very useful piece of information for a change.
Haha Thanks! I’ve been dissecting the play style of Japanese Claws for quite a while now. It was a mystery at first why some of the Claw players would always hit with CH. Now I know why. And it’s one of Claws greatest assets! =)
Well then, maybe you might want to help me out on this one: If you followed the latest jp Claw matches, you probably noticed that a lot of them go for empty neutral jump -> df.hk. Why? And why the hell does that setup work so often anyways? Is this some kind of OS or something?
SICK! Kouryuu, you are freakin’ awesome~
I’m applying this to my future Cody as well =)
Glad I can help. =)
Can you link me the videos? I haven’t seen any new claw matches as of late and the SF4 uploader I’ve subscribed to just returned from a two week vacation (LordAborigineSF4). The only new videos I’ve seen are the Makoto OCV which you uploaded. And I’ve only watched them once. If that set up was used in those matches, I’ll re-watch them and I’ll give you my input.
Like for example here. Not that those are the first that come to mind, there are a lot more out there.
[media=youtube]NTtwSVJxZ6Q#t=1m26s[/media]
[media=youtube]jLVEHN8l23Y#t=2m28s[/media]
[media=youtube]Ub6JSFLJg9Q#t=0m54s[/media]
Also, what’s with this LV. 3 setup Ujiki was trying to pull off here?
[media=youtube]z78PkFFuM18#t=5m36s[/media]
Good examples. Especially the one with Kokujin and Itabashi.
Remember how I said df.rh is probably Claws best poke in my earlier post? These are good examples why. The reason is because it is so versatile. Not only does it rape opponents who try to OS tech Claws Kara throws but it’s a viable poke/counter poke due it it’s range and it being safe on block. Unlike Claws other pokes, which can virtually be beaten by jabs, df.rh cannot. Due to this, opponents love to go into a footsie war with Claw, taking advantage of his poor priority and disjointed hitbox.
So the best way to beat those who try to out poke you is to rape them with df.rh. The empty jump that preceded the df.rh was Cat-K trying to predict a jump in from the opponent and punish (since in all those instances, he was in the perfect spacing for his opponent to jump in on him). I’m about 90% sure of this, especially in the Kokujin match. But they didn’t jump in and since Cat-K was in a good position to use df.rh upon landing (i.e. not too close to get poked out of the start up frames, since the start up on the move is 14 frames), he decided to use it. It was a good choice since it’s really safe on block (assuming you late OS throw). In Itabashi’s case, he tried to poke Cat-K and ate the CH.
If you watch the match with Kokujin again (around 2:12), Kokujin was spacing Cat-K out with cr.mp and cr.mk. Cat-K decided to counter poke with Cosmic Heel and he was successful (it beat Ryu’s cr.mk clean). Gotta love the move.
As for the Ujiki example, if Machi teched and did anything other than a reversal DP, Ultra or backdash (e.g. jump, poke, throw etc.) he would have eaten the full Lvl.3 FA. It’s a trap. You activate the FA after you hit with a rh.ST, the camera moves off claw upon activation and it catches players off guard. Ujiki decided to go for it since he assumed Machi would tech and not go for the DP since he didn’t have meter to cancel (i.e. it would have been a risky decision on Machi’s part). But Machi decided to avoid teching at all and not fall for the trap. It’s similar to Cammy’s Hooligan trap post DP. Still useful against those who don’t know about this little trick =) but unfortunately for Ujiki, Machi was well aware.
What I’m more interested in was the Izuna set up (possibly trap?) Makoto pulled off against the Viper after scoring a rh.ST in the corner (around 1:10):
[media=youtube]jdRpIf958gg"[/media]
Could be a viable variation to the trap Ujiki tried to pull off… I’ll test it out when I get the chance =)
Well, hope I helped answer your questions Sasaki.
I have a different take on why a player would use the empty jump in into CH. Well actually its not really different lol, but ill say it anyways. Because when an opponent lands with an empty jump they expect like a low attack or any attack in general to get a counter hit against the opponent, and since Vega could hit from that far away with a poke I think he expected it, but nothing came out and in fact it looks like Vega is moving away in the starting frames thus making it look like he is vulnerable, when in fact he will counter alot of moves with the CH.
CH works well because when you mix it up with pokes and the player starts trying to counter poke you, you counter their poke with the CH. I believe CH moves Vega’s hitbox (or w/e its called the area he could be hit) so he could dodge moves and then counter them similar to Dudley’s counter move thingy. Thats why it makes sense to empty jump in and CH. They expect an attack and it never comes, so when you try to launch an attack against Vega who is right in front of you, he actually dodges it with CH and then counters your attack.
Now about the Izuna trap against Viper… Viper actually can escape Izuna attempts with EX seismo which has less frames than Izuna but enough invincibility to not get hit by it. In addition I saw that Ex seismo is cancelable which is so unfair to have invincibility for 12 frames and then cancel it to punish w/e. I don’t know how to cancel it though and I have tried to do it like the others but couldn’t. Can some1 tell me how to cancel it? And the Viper could just not tech just like avoiding hooligan combo to avoid that “trap.” Without meter though… I am not sure what else she could do…