kara-throwing can get you outta tough situations like sagat’s knee frame trap…you can actually kara it
Is it really safe to try that, though? If Sagat does the trap and ends with frame advantage, then immediately goes for crouching jab and catches you during kara throw start-up, that’s a free combo and possibly a wake-up tiger knee to get you back in the trap. All theory, though. He could be under pressure and mess up.
Everytime I’ve tried it worked… You should be able to catch him before his next move … You HAVE to be standing block on the tiger knee though so that his tiger knee DOES NOT hit you on the last active frames…
Why would you kara anyways? Since he is so close after a TK, a normal throw would beat his lights anyways if advantage/disadvantage is even. And you wouldn’t have to deal with the 1 or 2 frames more startup.
I’m talking about lk tigerknee, that will him too far for a normal throw…
I see. Well, I’ve posted Destins take on the TK loop a few pages ago…
Do you guys kara throw after a c.lp c.lk combo or do you guys do what I do and just kra throw by walking in. It’s the only time i can fix my hand to prep for one.
You’ll get best results by mixing it up.
Do naked kara’s sometime, but also after one c.lp, or perhaps two c.lp’s, or a standing short (standing light kick) then kara, etc, etc…
It’s when you’ve shown them that there a lot of different mixup’s that kara throw works best for you, because then they start doing option select tech (as in they hit down back and throw simultaneously while still in block stun/hit stun.) SF4 has a mechanic where it will read multiple inputs and ‘select’ the best option for you.
So some players will start option selecting against you. SF4 will read all three of the following inputs from your opponent and choose the best for them:
c.lk
c.lp
throw tech
If you tried a kara-tick throw, of course the engine will choose throw tech for your opponent. But if you block, step back, or jump, the engine will ‘choose’ c.lk for your opponent (the engine give preferences to kicks over punchs, specials over normals, etc.)
ORR if you’re playing against a noob, they’ll start mashing DP (dragon punch, shoryuken, shienkyaku, tiger uppercut, cannon spike) type moves. If you notice them doing this, that’s good, because then they are baitable!
Then if you know they are going to mash a DP when you start your kara throw mixups, you can simply stop and block as they whiff their DP and you punish.
So as you can see, the weapon is in the mixup. Without mixups, your opponent could crouch block you all day long and what could Vega do about it? NOTHING. Once you force them to guess, they’ll be more open… if you bait a back dash, sweep! If you bait a neutral jump, air throw! If you bait a DP, PUNISH!
But of course this can’t be whored out constantly. Do it some on wakeup (unless you’re facing a total scrub that mashes DP everytime) and poke some, and always anticipate their jump.
BTW, this post is easier said than done.
Its probably already been said before but heavy RCF is not so useless after a jump in. i have been doing it for a couple months and it deos pretty good damage.
Jump HP, standing HP cancel into heavy RCF
like i said its probably already been noted but i am just throwing it out there because it brings me good success
That is only if you hit the jump in though…
Most times if you go up vs a knowledgeable player, they can dp in between your standing hp cancel hp.rfc if they blocked the jump-in… heck even if you don’t cancel it they can dp in between your two hits…
Think of it like guile’s cr.hk…
I attempted this in my tourney match once and got uppercutted immediately. Not to say your opp. will always mash TU, but consider there is a heavy scarefactor to this, and since ppl tend to get a bit nervous in tournaments anyways, I can’t really guarantee they’re not going to get a little mashy in your blockstrings.
This sucks so much ass, seriously. Especially since it’s his best special to push the opponent into the corner and gain some positional advantage.
Do we already have low forward -> far short -> far round-house on the combo list? It does 198 damage, 310 stun. Also low jab -> low jab -> low jab -> far round-house for 161 damage and 281 stun. Same damage as low jab -> low jab -> low jab -> jab RCF but without the mix-up opportunity at the end. Trade the third low jab on the RCF combo with a low short for better reliability, but 153 damage.
If anybody cares, some more info about positioning at the end of RCF. You’re around max low jab distance outside of the corner, far short distance with the opponent in the corner. Use that info as you wish.
So, if the izuna vortex is so deadly when Izuna’s are used as a meaty…
Then Vega’s Super becomes awsome.
I don’t know why this hasn’t occurred to me before.
If you have full super, and get a knockdown, the timing for a meaty izuna can be learned. I just pulled it off in training mode against bastard Ryu. Then, I think after the super lands, you STILL have them in the izuna vortex. It’s almost a guaranteed 330 damage after a ST on Ryu, Sagat, and the rest of cast that Izuna vortex works on. And then, if you’re really good, continue the izuna vortex.
Full meter and successful cosmic heel? RH ST… time it right MEATY SUPER, continue vortex.
Full meter and they whiff a DP next to you? c.short xx ST, MEATY SUPER, continue vortex.
Granted, Claw is so reliant on meter that he doesn’t go around with full meter a lot, but if you do, it’s as easy as practicing the timing in training mode, and you have a nasty hella bad vortex going.
Joz, can you try pulling this off in a match then report to me how reliable/practical it is? You play offline so your izuna vortexes are more reliable.
My vortexes get screwed with lag that I rarely get more than three.
First of all, tell me how many active frames you have to pull off the izuna drop so that it can be meatied.
Second, after a ST, the opponent has the option to tech wake up or not, so against online scrubs, it is more easy to confirm then on offline play where the pace is really important.
That being said, it is really hard to time the super izuna right.
On another note, when I talked about the phenomenon of the ex fba hitting behind the opponent, it goes more beyond crossing the opponent up upon wake up.
What I actually meant is that sometimes, on specific characters such as dhalsim, bison and zangief, when you go for a string such as cr.lp, cr.mp xx ex.fba, in a certain distance, even if the string was blocked, the ex.fba would sometimes hit the opponent. And when i would ask them if they blocked or not, they would say that they just held back. It is as if, at a certain distance, if you put the opponent in block stun and then cancel your attack into ex.fba, the ex.fba would hit on the backside of the opponent when the block stun ends thus crossing them up. It’s kind of like whiffing a grab after you hit an opponent with a move that has put you in the +. Has this ever happened to anyone of you?
Yeah, cross-up EX FBA during a block string happens against certain characters. It would be great to get a list of specific block strings/combos that lead to cross-up EX FBA on each character.
Um I don’t know if this was addressed, but I was just fighting a honda online. I got to try and punish with a BHC and the honda I guess back dashed on reaction of his blocked move and well…my BHC went THROUGH HIM. Are the backdash invincible frames that ridiculous?
Hey Auditor I did it on my brother’s Abel the other day and got it to connect. I can’t remember how I had hit him with the izuna in the first place but I maanged to do the super immediately and it got him. Then I kept doing izunas =D
The only problem with the super which still makes it useless is that it’s not very feasible against a lot of characters (especially Abel who can punish any wall dive for free with roll, ultra or roll, COD) because in order to set it up, you have to get an izuna in the first place. And the easiest way (and sometimes only way) to hit with an izuna in the first place is to use the EX FBA; of course, you’re out on your meter for the super. If you can generate enough meter for the rolling izuna after connecting with your EX FBA by using the vortex repeatedly, maybe you’d be getting somewhere; but I don’t know if you’d be able to get your super without killing someone first or if you’d really have the chance to get that many. I’ll go into practice soon and see how much meter and how many izunas you need to fill up a bar.
So yeah, it works great as part of your izuna vortex. I really hope one of these days I’ll chance upon a full super bar while fighting Sagat. Then I’ll fish for the izuna and do the super… IMO its the only way you should use the super, it’s a great set up aagainst a lot of characters (though COMPLETELY useless agianst Vega, Dhalsim, Akuma, Bison, probably won’t work against Viper if they know that EX Seismo gets them out, Honda can probably focus like usual to avoid it, Blanka of course, and I think thats it for characters who can avoid it easily), but it still doesn’t do much damage for 4 meter (think about how a close fierce c mp EX FBA does just as much damage with 1 bar as your 4 for super) and if they luck out and manage to escape you can still punish like normal in most cases, but you essentially just wasted four meter. Which is why I think the grab range SHOULD be huge so that this doesn’t happen, and of course it seems that way since it’s way easier to get a rolling izuna and a normal one, and thats why i want to take a look at it . ithink zangief’s lariats are a good thing to test it on as lariats are grabbable and it would give a pretty clear idea of what hitbox you’re working with using the super.
ya you got like 1-7 frames for most characters immediately upon using it
Is backdash that ridiculous… not that bad actually… but for Claw’s BHC case since its super fast it seems BS. Nothing to complain tho.
I’ve noticed something very funky today…When Boxer does FA on a SHC cross-up attempt during wakeup, there seems to be a certain point where Boxer can drag Claw facing the wrong way dashing foward after ‘parrying’.