As for me I’m just not used to walldiving away when the opponent is down after an ST and I’m in a stupid position. That’s an option that grants great escape from a corner position let’s say… against Zangief. If I do df.rh -> ST and then Corpsehop and long backflip to get away from the corner, I get scared to be followed and punished with a green hand as he gets up. If I do the slide instead the opponent will wake up after my long backflip is finished. That’s the only time when I use the slide because I’m not used to using the walldive to get away.
We all know of the options after an ST. How about exploring options after an untechable knockdown now? I think Joz has some tricks up his sleeve concerning this.
It’s not like I use this much anyways I still stick to ST after a df.rh for example, but it’s still interesting to know.
Have you guys used SHC to escape corner situations? Sometimes it works for me. It would be great if there were any kind of guaranteed way out by using it. As far as I can tell, it’s pretty fast on the way to the wall.
And what if I hit the slide after a df.rh -> lk ST? Does it change properties then?
I don’t like using the shc too much cuz even if you do land it, you bounce off of them and land in range for a lot of their attacks. Or did you mean jump off the corner wall and fly over their body? That works nicely, kind of similar to if you did a wall dive. I guess the only question is which one recovers faster and has least chance of glitching. Sometimes the shc seems to float on the side you’re going to.
And so your saying when you’re in the corner you go for a slide to help you escape? I guess that works, but I was referring to people who chose to do the slide after every cosmic heel they land. Those people are just minimizing the potential damage they could have done. And if you’re in the corner and knocked gief down, you could just wall dive out of the corner pretty safely, with less effort and build a little meter on the way out.
And I don’t think the properties change if you do the cosmic heel first. If they did we’d prolly be able to land an ultra after that as well. I have been unable to land a lk ST after a cosmic heel (haven’t tried it on bigger characters), but i know after 2 cosmic heels in a row you can’t do much more. Is it possible to do cosmic heel, lk ST, ex ST? or will the ex miss cuz the cosmic heel only lets you get one juggle hit?
Yeah I meant using the SHC without actually hitting the opponent, but capitalizing on the moves good speed on the way to the wall to get out of the corner. If we use the version that travels highest, and the opponent does anything besides doing a reversal or stuffing it on startup, we’ll either get
a counter hit shc (things to check - is it safe on CH?)
or an aa shc.
If the opponent blocks standing, does the highest version pass over his head?
And no, df.rh -> lk ST -> EX ST really works. And nah, of course it’s dumb to ALWAYS use the slide after a cosmic heel. I also prefer ST.
I guess you’re right - it’s safer to just walldive away. I should use the walldive more when trying to escape.
I don’t think a jab shc against the wall goes over normal height or tall characters. The counter hit shc is interesting though. For corner escapes, how about crouching jabs canceled into normal barcelonas to the opposite wall?
I’ve been looking at Vega’s other specials and I have discovered that the area to which he throws his claw during claw toss varies according to his opponent’s stamina. I’ve thrown it towards an opponent at the very start of a round and behind Vega after dealing damage, regardless of the punch button pressed. Seems pretty odd.
Also, has anybody found a reliable method for trading the first hit of ex barcelona against a jumping opponent? Really want to test that hit with ultra and see if it links, just for knowledge.
Edit
My mistake, the equipment toss is space-dependent. Close range throws behind him, mid and long range throw towards the opponent. Also, looking at CH resets and noticed that if you use close forward, you can follow up with a meaty(?) slide or meaty(?) CH when the opponent lands.
Also, does anybody know the number of frames a character requires for normal wake-up?
Looks like CH -> LK ST -> EX ST is character-dependent. I’ve gotten it to work on Honda, Balrog, Rufus, Bison (iirc) and a few others but can’t get it to work against Viper, although she’s susceptible to CH ->CH-> EX ST, or Blanka (ofc it doesn’t hit Blanka :@).
I just noticed Vegas nj hk can be timed really late when you use it as a nj attack. Can we do anything with this knowledge? Like, faking empty jump -> throws?
if you’ve hit with many cosmic heel, ST’s, you can mix it up with a sweep which, like ST, gives you many mixup (corpsehop) opportunities afterward. EX FBA also does more damage which I only really use to finish matches. you can also close jab, FADC dash under for mixups.
Can you explain? I feel like what your asking is already known.
If I understand correctly, you mean neutral jump and do a late HK? If so then this is basic lol. Im pretty sure most Vegas (Tatsu def does) do this on an opponent’s wakeup to avoid a wakeup attack and lead into a short combo. I find the neutral jump MK has a little more range (both downwards and forwards), but does less damage. They both can be used pretty well on some characters wakeup attacks.
I have a feeling you mean something different tho?
Yeah the reset is useful, but you can corpsehop after ST aswell. I just don’t see the point in losing the damage from ST ^^ Ah well guess i just dont agree with you there.
Wondering if it’s supposed to be the designated AA ST (next to short ST) since it doesn’t move as far forward when compared to roundhouse and EX ST, but still comes out in 4 frames and hits twice.
well yea, honestly I’m already preparing myeslf to use ST every time I use cosmic heel, and… yeah, many more options, altohugh every once in a while I use sweep if my execution is a little sloppy and I don’t store my charge, or I let go of the charge early assuming my cosmic heel is not gonna hit (that is always a nice surprise). I have some nice tricks after a cosmic heel, sweep. LK ST corpsehop on most characters is EXTREMELY ambiguous… it is seriously a toss up where you’re going to land.
Uhm, yeah, something different. I didn’t mean using j.hk as a nj attack, that’s simple :'D
I meant that if you time the j.hk at the latest possible moment, it looks like a neutral empty jump. It’s not that easy to distinguish it from it. Try it out.
What I’m asking is, can we use this in some way?
People may already know this, but you can decide where an opponent lands after izuna drop. So, no need to “waste” wake-up mind games due to bad positioning after the drop (like corpse-hopping out of the corner) .
Cross-up barcelonas mess up the left/right input for the drop. Also, it appears that during ex fba, you can cross-up in the air, because that glitch happens on those izuna drops too (mostly just for ex barcelonas in the corner).
lol, thanks for the message today bro. It’s funny cause just before you sent that to me I was actually pulling off some pretty good stuff with the late nj. hk. It owns, holy crap.
Also, for everyone; today I played Geom Modinside, don’t know if you’ve seen his videos. I lost 10-2. here’s what I wrote about the fight on gamefaqs;
I definitely feel like I could have played better. I played way too much SF today and wasn’t really getting anything going against him that gave him any reason to think I was an above-average Vega. Hopefully when I meet up again I’ll have more success.
Also; tip. Even though Guile has a fireball, blah blah blah, never bother using EX SHC to go through a sonic boom. It just doesn’t work.
I actually think you did a good job for the most part in your matches, except for a few things that I thing you could have used but didnt. Your defense was really good, and that ultra that hit was awesome. Your air game was really really good too. I think it was Vega’s stupid flaws which contributed greatly to your defeat, like when you used cr lp and light RCF and the first hit missed and then you got punished. However besides that, some things that could help you include…
-After FBA, if your opponent does a jump and attack and whiffs then you can use the claw dive after and it should hit them, because of how the attack gives you forward momentum which you could of definitely taken advantage of.
-Use Focus attacks more often. If you notice, in the first few matches you used alot less focus attacks than in your later matches where you did and started to do better. Every crumple you get is a free cl fierce–> cr mp --> EX FBA, which does alot of dmg (this one works on guile). Even a focus attack lvl 1 is great in some occassions, even if its just to hit him to dash back. After putting much pressure with the focus attacks he is going to want to deal with it, which he will most likely do by either using the flash kick, the sonic boom, jumping or back dashing. If you can bait a jump or flash kick then you could get a free ultra or a free attack after you back dash. If its a sonic boom then you may block it after a dash back and if its a back dash then you guys are neutral again kind of. Also I do realize that Vega’s focus attack is really slow and so are his dashes, but its still one of his best tools.
-Put more pressure on Guile. Honestly, the more you attack him the better its going to be period. The more he attacks you the worse. Even if you are blocking its no good cause then the claw and mask is going to come off faster and you will receive that huge penalty that can easily give him the match.
-Try some combos that lead to FBA, especially since you were doing so well with it.
-Try not to do so many random EX SHC, everytime he blocked it you ate a ton of dmg (well not everytime but still).