I’ve realized I’ve got a bit of reprogramming to do for my game, today. Last night I decided I’ve gotta cut out the EXFBA->ID combo after a df.HK and replace it with the much more cost effective df.HK -> HK Scarlet Terror.
I’ve also gotta work RCF less randomly into my game, and utilize what little practice I had with Makoto’s mixups in 3S to my focussing out of RCF stuff. I guess your options come down to:
-throw
-sweep for knockdown mixups (probably not very safe at the range you’d be in after FA’ing out of an RCF, so I could probably rule this out)
-c.MK poke to EXBA&ID
-j.HP -> c.MK xx HK Scarlet Terror
-df.HK -> HK Scarlet Terror
anybody else have any other findings or good things to do out of a focused RCF?
Also, I’m at work right now so I can’t test this out, but it’s not possible to combo into a HP RCF right? I think you can do it from a far HP but I didn’t see it on a quick look on the first page of this thread so I’m not sure.
I posted a few combos on page 13 with one or two HP RCF combos. You must use close standing HP and cancel it on the first hit into HP RCF for it to combo though.
I have a few mixups out of focused RCF. Note for all of these though: You can either EXFA the last hit or random roll hits. The random roll hit ones are slightly sneakier if you condition your opponent to expect them in other spots. Roll hits have crappier frame advantage I think though.
You can hit with EXLV1/LV2 if you want for slightly different mixups. If you cancel the roll and use a level 1 FA before dashing, you’ll be on less of a frame advantage. Using a level 2 FA, even if it’s blocked, gives you time to charge ST or EXBA and I believe it has about the same/possibly better frame advantage as EXFA Cancel->Dash.
RCF->EXFA Cancel->Forward Dash->Throw
RCF->EXFA Cancel->Forward Dash->Random tick->Throw
RCF->EXFA Cancel->Forward Dash->2K/2P->Combo/Block String(For throw happy guys, not 100% sure you have enough frame advantage to do this I would need to test more but I think you do.
RCF->EXFA LV2->Combo or followup if blocked
RCF->EXFA LV3->Combo if hit
RCF->EXFA Cancel->Forward Dash->FA LV1->Combo(Fishing for a CH from a jab or something, also blocks non armor breaking reversals)
RCF->EXFA Cancel->Forward Dash->Backjump HP(This is a throw bait)
RCF->EXFA LV2(blocked)->Forward Dash->EXBA->ID(Throw Bait, risky though…50% meter. You’re at least safe if it fails)
RCF->EXFA Cancel->Forward Dash->Backdash->df.HK/cr.HK/st.HK/st.MK/j.HP/etc(Meant for creating optimal distance for Claw and hopefully getting a combo starter with a poke, I’m not entirely sure if backdashes have throw invuln on frames 1-8 though but if they do this should be a decent mixup)
RCF->EXFA Cancel->Forward Dash->Block(For reversals though it seems usually opponents try to grab me after the dash)
RCF->EXFA Cancel->Forward Dash->Vertical Jump HK->Combo(This would be for something like Gief trying to Ultra you or some other Ultra that doesn’t hit vertically very much. If they just try to grab you though you’re going to get owned cause they’ll recover too fast I think)
RCF->EXFA Cancel->Forward Dash->Block String->EXFA->Repeat with new mixup(opponents blocking for longer can make them nervous so if your first mixup fails)
Ok so I really need to test this against an actual opponent but from what I can tell from framedata and training mode you should have enough frame advantage that most of these will work, but seeing as I have no 2nd PS3 controller I have no way of testing if many of the throw/reversal punishes are safe.
Jambell - the big advantage to going for the EX after df+RH is that Izuna drop prevents techs and gives you nice okizeme mixup with df+RH corpse-hop. Considering how rarely Vega gets to create an opportunity and make his opponent guess, I’d say it’s well worth the stock.
Off-topic - same RedBeard that posts on Dustloop? 'Cause if so, that’s awesome. I learned what little my pathetic Johnny knows from you.
If they block, and you fadc the roll, you’re at frame disadvantage at the end of your dash IF you dash forward. Same goes for a blocked FA. It’s a so-so mixup, if you’re desperate (which I know I’ve used when I’m desperate :lovin:) but I definitely wouldn’t use it very often.
Word, it’s definitely pretty expensive for roll mixups when you can save your meter for better things. Kind of a bad habit of mine where I use roll mixups too much actually and it’s a meter hog, but I find I can usually hit with the mixups and it keeps momentum decently.
And it’s definitely sadface time if they throw break you after you blow 50% meter on it or reversal you when you go to do one of the non reversal safe mixups after it.
And rattlejaw yeah it’s me from Dustloop Glad I could help you with Johnny! Hopefully I can get my Claw to a reasonable level too.
the j.hp to cosmic heel is old, unfortunately the info is buried within the first few pages (page two, to be exact). maybe someone else should be in charge of keeping the thread updated, what with it being stickied and all.
Ah, I see what you’re saying. That’s definitely a valid point. An EX will do slightly less damage at the time but gives you the opportunity to double that damage afterwards.
My Vega is generally a more defensive, reactive Vega so I would, in a perfect world, prefer to get the surefire EX-free damage and save my EX for claw dives on fireball reaction or for crossing up on wakeup, but I should practice the df.HK wakeup mixups to expand my playstyle, for sure.
(I’m not sure if this has been mentioned by Redbeard yet)
So, after experiencing a few techs after resets with
df.hk -> cr.lp -> kara throw
I sat in training mode thinking of a possible way to punish that. I found that
Vertical jump lk -> cr.lk -> lk ST -> EX ST
doesn’t connect at midscreen, even after a reset that puts you as close to your opponent as possible (cr.lp). It’s only a viable corner option.
So after a few minutes I figured out that the only vertical jumping attack that connects after a cr.lp reset is mk. I tried it out on live yesterday and it works pretty well:
Df.hk -> cr.lp (reset)
(opponent whiffs throw)
Vertical Jump mk -> cr.mk -> EX Walldive -> Izuna Drop
Personally, I don’t think the crossup is all that useful. You do it before they get up, so they can easy change their direction on reaction before they get up, and the stuff you can do are the same stuff you can do if you didn’t cross up (low hit, overhead, or throw). I’d say it’s worked for me maybe 3 times out of 15 successful crossups, the rest, I would eat a shoryu or the like, or get a tech’d grab.
But seriously, I can’t get out Scarlet Terror from Cosmic Heel at all. Either I to a sweep, or the ST doesn’t hit. I’m not sure what I’m doing wrong.
I like this setup from RCF. redbeard.
RCF->EXFA Cancel->Dash BACK, Cosmic Heel
Like, press the FA, and then put the dash input immediately, instead of pressing b.b+FA, so the opp can clearly see the FA, but you dash jsut quick enough to get out of harm. And then if teh CH will hit them for trying to coutner your FA. This works on people when they know about the FA after RCF, so you can use that fact against them. =D
Also, it’s been a while since I’ve been to the Vega boards. I’ve been so busy with my finals. Hope I’m not behind on my Beauty Lessons. =P
As soon as you hit the down foward for the cosmic heel, immediately go to down back, you should be able to get to the back charge before or at the same time the heel connects and then by that time you’ll have enough time to ST. It’s something I had to work at a lot because if you get a standing.rh then you know the charge wasn’t long enough.
I can get to DB before the kick hits, so I guess that isn’t the problem. But yeah, sometimes I will get teh ST out, but it’ll miss. I can’t seem to figure out the problem.
I always do a “smooth” motion wenn charge partitioning from df to db.
Also, you gotta watch to really charge DOWNBACK not back or down. If a rh comes out or if a ST whiffs then it’s either because you:
didn’t do the db motion fast enough, hence didn’t get enough charge
or because you executed f -> k too fast, hence didn’t charge enough
Also try to do the df.hk from max range. It’s sort of easier that way.
If you want, I’ll post a video for you.
I gave it a few tries and got it pretty quickly. What I’d do is the second I hit hk I’d go downback so I had plenty of time to charge, and then you can sort of release the move naturally and you probably won’t wiff. It gets weird doing this then doing the heel into ex FBA, since you can just charge forward down for that.
This past week I’ve made Gen my alt and have been playing with him a lot. What does this have to do with Vega? Well he’s susceptible to that same damn wall glitch that plagues Vega so.
