Gief vs CLaw
How do you see this match up. ive seen this in tournies where Claw gets raped for free, not by just any scrubs either by the elite. I’d like Apoc and Sirlin to comment on this matchup if possible. What are the advantages in this matchup?
To me, this is a win for Claw. I don’t even really go for wall dives in this matchup. To me, it’s kind of simple. Gief wins by getting in close. You negate this by using Vega’s pokes (standing forward works good for me here) and slide to keep him out. i try to keep Gief in a little “box” a little outside of SPD/running power bomb range. Jiggle back and forth. If he lariats, slide to knock him down. If he jumps, time a slide to hit him on the way down. When you get him down, pound away at him with claw rolls, slides, and pokes until you get him into the corner and whittle him out. Just don’t ever let him get close. You have the tools to make sure that doesn’t happen.
Standing fierce good too if gief is looking for low kicks.
I’d like Zbigniew Brzezinski and Rachel Bilson to comment on the matchup if possible.
Both of y’all come to CF on the 29th. I’m sure Damdai would like a crack at Cap@Vega.
umm you cannot roll against Gief while he is waking up Free SPD!!! Yikes! He can also grab you out of your pokes.
Every time I try to SPD a roll on wake up it’s a free dizzy for Claw. Might just be me though.
Now meaty pokes on wake up I’ve sat right on Claws face for that
This is a big win for Claw. If you’re Claw, use your pokes to keep Gief out at max range, especially crouching roundhouse, crouching fierce, standing forward, crouching strong, and standing roundhouse, and if Gief ever gets close to you, do a flipkick (which you should be storing whenever you stand up, always try to keep that charge). Just make sure that your poking doesn’t get you a lariat in your face, you really don’t want to be knocked down (although if you’re poking from max distance, one lariat knockdown won’t be enough for Gief to get a safejump on you). Don’t bother with meaty attacks, you’re better at a distance, and don’t bother with wall dives, your pokes are better, although a wall dive to escape the corner is fine and an occasional punch dive is alright too.
As Gief, you shouldn’t be trying to spd the roll. Some of the roll’s frames are considered on the ground and some are considered off, so it’s too much of a crapshoot to bother with.
Exactly!!!
Now reversal kick lariat is your best bet here but thats for a dif. thread. I learned that really fast in this matchup.
May someone please break down the Claw vs Ryu match?
Just read the 2nd post
Add
st. MP (great against fireballs: hits them in their start up and has the abilty to exchange ~ about same amount of life on traded fireball. The cr.mp either beats the fireball on start up or eats the fireball there is very little middle ground.)
st. MK (eats hurricane kicks for breakfast, great for coner pressure, shin/foot are invincible)
cr. HP (Good AA, good pressure, etc)
Remember, the Vega’s claw always points away from the wall he jumped off of. He has very good priority on the end of his claw use it to your advantage as a poke (it’s hit box actually extends PAST his claw)… You don’t aways have to go for the grab or cross up on the wall dive.
and if you didn’t get it from RYU1999’s post… Wall dive all day on knock down.
Thanks Ryu1999 and fatboy, especially for the standing forward beating hurricane kick bit (If only I have known this last night when I played the Dark Gaiden half of DGV). Also, is standing fierce as good as standing strong for stuffing fbs? I noticed Vega’s fierce has more range and will hit crouching opponents but is slower than his strong.
I do not believe so. The standing fierce is more of a “mid” hit. You’ll stab right into the fireball. The strong seems to ~go over~ the freball and hits “high” for a trade if it doesn’t stop the fireball in its start up.
Here is a break down.
St. Fiece has:
Positives: :tup:
Does 25% more damage (15% v. 12%)
Negitives: :tdown:
50% more start up (12 frames v. 8 frames)
30% more recovery (13 frames v. 10 frames)
Same number of hitting frames (6)
Less priority
Doesn’t trade well with fireballs.
So anyway, that is why I choose the standing strong!
Thanks
I think Fatboy hit things pretty much on the head.
I realize that he’s talking about a specific situation (vs. fireballs). Regardless, as I was reading there was something that immediately came to my mind just as an “in general” type of thing to remember. It is that other advantages to the fierce would be the extra reach and as you mentioned before it’s more mid so it’s good for connecting on a croucher where the strong would whiff high.
im curious what im doing wrong since i can only get these two to work
What should Vega do against DJ?
I play this match like he’s a better version of Guile. Watch out for his crouching forward, it will counter most of Vega’s ground attacks. You gotta look for Max Outs you can hop over, and start going to work. For me, Dee Jay struggles a little to get out of Wall Dives, his upkick has to be perfect, or else he gets hit, or you guys will pass through each other. Try to stay outside of the range of his crouching forward, and try some carefully timed slides, crouching strong, or jab claw rolls. Pin him back. The key for me is to take away his low forward, take him out of his crouch and try to low forward any move he does game. Make him try to beat you some way else. And when he tries, you’ll be ready to shut him down. Again, think like a harder Guile match.
I agree that DeeJay’s c.MK is a key move in this match, but I’m not sure I understand what you mean here. I don’t see how you can simultaneously stay out of the range of it and still employ your c.MP or c.HK, because there’s no range (that I’m aware of) at which you can use them in which he can’t just trump you with his own c.MK. The LP roll is tricky too, as he can hit you out of that as well if you don’t do it from a long distance away (although even then you only trade hits, and the Max Out becomes a real risk out there).
I’m not trying to argue that those moves can’t sometimes be useful, because I know that the slide can still hit DeeJay out of his c.MK startup or recovery frames if he’s just mindlessly spamming it, etc.
…
Granted, I’ve only had any real experience from the DeeJay side, but I find it much tougher when they mix in standing slashes. That keeps me from playing the ground game on autopilot with c.MK stopping the usual Claw stuff (c.MP, c.HK, rolls). Claw’s s.far MP is safe from the c.MK and is good at stuffing fireballs, while the s.far HP is just a dangerous move for DeeJay period.
Because I was having trouble with these 2 attacks recently (JMS, please stop hitting me, thanks), I decided to take a closer look at the interaction with DeeJay’s attacks. I hope the following is as accurate as possible:
Claw’s s.far MP slash…
… vs. DeeJay’s c.LP – DeeJay gets hit
… vs. DeeJay’s c.MP – DeeJay gets hit
… vs. DeeJay’s c.HP – Hit trade, slightly favors DeeJay
… vs. DeeJay’s c.LK – They both miss
… vs. DeeJay’s c.MK – They both miss
… vs. DeeJay’s c.HK – Claw gets hit (slides right under it)
Of course, the real attraction of this move is that it’s good at snuffing fireballs.
Claw’s s.far HP stab…
… vs. DeeJay’s c.LP – Hit trade, heavily favors Claw
… vs. DeeJay’s c.MP – Hit trade, about equal damage
… vs. DeeJay’s c.HP – Hit trade, about equal damage
… vs. DeeJay’s c.LK – DeeJay gets hit if Claw is far enough away
… vs. DeeJay’s c.MK – Close = hit trade, Medium = DeeJay gets hit, Far = both miss
… vs. DeeJay’s c.HK – Whoever attacks first wins (either can easily hit the other out of startup frames)
This move is most annoying for DeeJay. As far as I can tell, the safest option for him seems to be just for him to block it and allow the pushback, and then he can Max Out relatively safely because Claw usually isn’t in range to jump over and hit him, and he can’t walldive either because he stood up to stab.
I’m not saying either of those moves are instant-win for Claw or anything, because DeeJay still has options, like using c.HP to play for hit-trades against these moves or whatever. But then Claw has answers too, like just jumping if DeeJay gets c.HP-happy. The net effect is that it really mixes up the ground game against DeeJay and makes him have to work, and think, a lot harder.
Sorry if that sounds confusing Raisin. Honestly, it kind of is hard for me to describe. Because things I do VS Dee Jay, if I type it out, it may sound like it loses in theory. You just really have to outwork him. Be the better player.
cr.fierce and strong seem to dominate vegas ground game. cr.fierce especially. Jump jab works against vegas normal anti airs i think too right? I dunno, i never felt like that match was that bad for dee jay oddly enough