I thought of something today… CH having nothing better than a 0 frame advantage…Against Zangief CH will no longer be a option because U1 and pile driver is at large. Even if you manage to hit the 0 frame on a regular basis, its more than easy to miss a backdash then you resolve to jumping. Jump neutral is not an option due to lariat and back jump won’t hit from that far. So you’re down to an extremely dumb match up of Vega jumping back, dashing back and hardkick all day.
Against Bison, you already have a hard time getting through his pokes and landing a well placed CH but with 0 frame advantage you can’t even continue the offensive after with anything even a neutral jump. 7-3 matchup has just become abit more grim.
CH on block–>Neutral jump won’t work anymore simply because theres no frame advantage to work for him. All miss’ed tech throws will recover before he even lands a neutral attack. At full range of his Kara, he will lose outright because his throw becomes +1 frame. So anyone can not only tech his kara after CH but even grab him out of it.
And I’m also a bit confused as whether the air properties for his backdash is a buff or debuff… On one hand he will have vulnerable time to ground grabs but he’ll be vulnerable to air grabs that are scarce in the game. Meaning back dash as an answer to Chun-li’s jump-ins is a bit more risky, as well as against Gief if he for some reason has U2.
Vega is not fun in this game. He just isn’t. He is boring, slow, and weak and poorly designed. I really wanted to play Vega in this game when it first came out because I LOVED Vega in ST. Vega in ST is one of my favorite fighting game characters but he’s nothing like his ST counter part. I really just realized one day, Vega sucks in this game, he’s fuckin boring, I don’t like the way he plays now, why am I playing him? It sure isn’t cause he’s cool.
The AE updates further cement this. They could have done more to make him like ST Vega but they didn’t. c. MK being faster was a step in the right direction, nerfing d/f+HK was step in the right direction, but all that and his wall dives are still ass, his slide is ass, AND he still has no anti-air. Fuck that. Fuck putting up with that. I don’t play this game seriously but I can’t imagine anyone that does would pick fuckin Vega now. Much love to Tatsu though for holding it down even though he’s never going to place at any tournament ever after AE updates.
So my advice is if you like Vega for his aesthetics then go on ahead and keep playing him and fuck how bad they make him. Just understand you wont win, this game isn’t balanced enough for that. However if you wanna win, either A.) pick another character or B.) Pick up another main to complement Vega’s bad match ups. Preferably someone with really solid defense and a good reversal. Akuma would seem like the obvious choice.
I play Guy now. He’s soooooooo bad but fuck it he’s FUN. Cross ups, resets, run shenanigans, and a fuckin ANTI-AIR (even though it costs an EX meter and that’s his ONLY anti-air). This game is about having fun cause lets be honest no one in this forum is gonna place in the money at any major tournament in Super. Might as well have fun with it.
I said that, but the example was invalid because why would you want to attack Zangief.
That match up is 6-4 (I think 5-5) advantage Vega, as long as Bison is aggressive, once he backs off, it becomes very hard to start an offense making it a 4-6 advantage Bison. And with no +frames on CH starting an offense wont be very viable. Read the following
But everyone keeps saying that it wont affect him in any way. Im glad your thinking about options.
Its actually a buff, ive been eating fat combo’s since day one.
@Luger
Fundementals get you far in this game, but like Kouryuu said
you need to play to win
and to do that you need to take risks; educated risks. CH was that. Playing using fundementals only is like playing not to lose and that doesnt work IMO. Look at the Canada Cup, and SoCal regional’s.
If you are saying EX RCF can replace CH then this message is 4 U: EX RCF can be grabed from the first 5 frames plus more than easy to react with SRKs…so…NTY
@Pedo I totally agree with cr.LP killing Bison’s scissor kick outside of poke strings. But there are EX Scissors that beat it. The reason why I’ll never believe Bison vs Vega is anything better than 6-4 is because Bison’s normals is essentially Vega’s normals on a ground game only faster and better with slightly less range. Bison can press with Scissors that chips and resets, Vega doesn’t have that. Its a simple matter of how they are constructed that makes this match up bad. And I don’t believe a jumping Vega completely screws a Bison over. If anything, both characters screw eachother over evenly by jumping. But Bison has a little extra called MPx2->ultra
ps: Silly me, About the Gief m/u. CH can be used to bait mistakes on block at tip point. You can backdash and its guaranteed safe. If he greenfists you, backdash again and HK will punish well. If he tries to grab then its a free EX FBA.
All I ask for…is that he doesn’t lose his ultra before hitting the wall anymore. Shit’s ridiculous when you get poked out of it with a GODDAMNED LK!
But eh, I’ll continue using Vega so long as he’s in the game. Don’t care personally if he gets nerfed back to vanilla state, I would still use him. I’m too lazy to learn someone else from scratch anyway
Rofl, I dunno about the super~ Personally because I think it’s a useless pile of asswank and if you get grabbed by it, you deserved it (I know I sure did when Cheep grabbed me with it one time XD)
Fail. Keep holding down back against Zangief’s that are to scared of your cr.mp. keep pressing cr.mp on Balrog and get pissed of because it keeps whiffing when clearly it should be hitting him. And keep Bison getting in on you and your only response to his barrage is cr.mp when he royaly screws up.
Actually if you cr.lp at the first possible frame it wont hit. At the range where cr.mk hits or cr.lk hits at max range EX will miss and you get to punish. Again this becomes a spacing issue. And if your both playing aggresivly you can jump in on Bison easier than he can on you. Thanks to his shitty jump you have plenty of time to reach and punish, he only has st.hk and that isnt consistent. Anything else like nj = free air grab for you into a cross up EX FBA. and lately cr.mp is such a bad move for Bison in the air. if he jumps to meet you it will not work for him. IF it does YOU did not react fast enough to punish him for jumping. However if he is in the air more than likely cr.mp will beat any option you have. As for Gief, if you do it now and back dash and he grabs, you bearly have any time to CH. Thats a better punishment.
Oh geez… I could sit here and argue with you over dumb things AGAIN but not this time. You clearly know everything, so it would be a big waste of time. I’m simply going to leave now while chuckling.
Using cosmic heel against bison is fine, balrog is okay…but for gief, it’s a big no.
It puts you in a bad position since the way you’re suppose to approach this matchup is by hit and run. Obviously, it would be fine to use for punishes but for an aggressive offense…no.
That’s what I’m saying. I don’t like using it on Balrog. His jabs are too much, and Zangief can punish you for it 3 weeks from Sunday. I’ve had bad experience using it on Bison too other than going for a nice frame trap with it.
have you played a Zangief, that has absolutely no fear, because he knows he is eventually going to get in and when he gets in its going to be in the corner because you allowed it to be so. Im sure you have.
there is a fine line between running away, and keeping somebody out. Running away from Zangief is a big no no. YOu end up in the corner and you cant escape safely form Gief if he is just willing to keep you there instead of doing damage and finishing the fight. As apposed to keeping him out you stay in the middle playing footsies minimizing your chance of being in the corner.
I mean i look at Thai Vega vs Zangief. Classic case of getting bulldogged because of fear. I felt like i was watching a Vanilla match up Vega vs Sagat. Where Vega was afraid to attack because of TU and TK.
And why wouldnt you use CH? Because if spaced right he cant do anything. If i grab and he techs well guess what im at the perfect range to react to anything he does or back of a bit to regain composure. And it keeps the bastard honest with his use of st.mp. Dont whore it, but its a great tool for safe pressure, putting him at a guess that is super safe for you, creating space and resetting the space. Folks have to stop being scared of characters, or starting an offense.
