If the total frames blurb is in the recovery column I would assume it means total recovery frames.
Like I said the shaku calculation may be from a different point than the regular ball explaining the potential discrepancy, or maybe the startup and recovery are inverted? Maybe it’s 50 frame startup and 25 recovery?
I’d be Very interested to know if there are any errors in the frame data, it’s a pretty huge mistake to leave large errors after all these years, some people use these stuff to save time on checking out stuff in training mode! It’s one thing to have tiny errors in a few normals, but specials should be accurate at the very least.
One thing that always bothered me is Cody’s bad stone frame data (http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2010/may/06/codys-frame-data-super-street-fighter-4/), I always hear about how godlike his recovery on bad stones are even though the startup is so long, but the frame data says that it has 44,46,48 recovery frames which aren’t impressive at all!
I recently built a gaming PC but didn’t purchase a GPU yet waiting for next gen Nvidia GPUs, so I’m only running my PC AEv2012 on built in intel HD3000 GPU lol(which surprisingly has no issues playing the game @720p without going below 60fps!), so I doubt that I can run FRAPS and record 60fps footage to analyze the data some more, I will see if I can capture footage @ lower resolutions without going below 60fps to have some data we can analyze, I still think Shakunetsu’s data is correct, but if it turned out that the recovery is a lot less, I know that I’ll be using the move a lot more often than I do now.
The bad stone recovery makes sense if you look at it: 44 total frame count, near 30 startup => 14-15 frames of recovery.
But yes, this should be clarified somehow. Perhaps look through the data files?
I Stand corrected !!!
I recorded and checked the data frame by frame and you are right, it’s total data and not recovery frames, when checking the hitbox videos previously I assumed that Akuma would be vulnerable until the tiny hitboxes around his body are gone, but that’s not the case.
I can’t believe I play Akuma since vanilla and I had wrong info about his fireballs all this time, hell I had wrong info about everyone’s fireballs and there are many, many people around these forums who got it wrong as well, Fucking eventhubs screwed up big time, I’ll make sure to contact them so they’d hopefully fix their shit.
Anyway, here’s the data I gathered just so doubters like myself can verify lol, I played as Akuma and made sure to hold up after shooting a fireball to know when the recovery frames will be over and the pre-jump animation starts:
Frame by frame images of Akuma’s ground fireball (14f startup/30f recovery)& Jab Shakunetsu(25f startup/25f recovery):
http://www.mediafire.com/?f8ujrgj8ppg80dx (12MB RAR file)
60fps video showing Akuma’s ground fireball, jab shakunetsu, strong shakunetsu & Ryu’s fireball at the end:
http://www.mediafire.com/?odvx1cc2txs2ozi (10MB MP4 file)
Thanks a lot Komatik for bringing this up, this cleared up a lot of things for me!
Nice job.
My only question is why is the total frames labeled as recovery in all the frame data? You can not be counter hit out of recovery frames, but you can in startup frames. They should not be counted as the same thing.
good shit. I knew something was fishy
I have no idea why projectiles are being listed like this, it’s very very stupid, both SRK wiki and eventhubs should list just the recovery frames under its column, e.g 30f under Akuma’s ground fireballs, the way they’re listing things now is confusing and just plain wrong!!
I have already read SRK’s wiki data before, but I always assumed it meant “Total recovery frames” lol, funny thing is a lot of people have no idea about this, even Sagat players who know their shit about fireballs say that Sagat’s low tiger shot had 44f recovery frames in vanilla then it was nerfed to 45f frames, but those are total frame data and not just recovery alone.
Edit: Speaking about wrong stuff in the frame data, IMO the way “Startup” data is listed for ALL moves should be changed as well, because the last Startup frame is also the first active frame, so technically it’s NOT a startup frame
e.g Akuma’s SRK is mentioned to have 3 frames startup, but in reality it’s 2 frames startup since the 3rd frame is already active.
I started playing SF seriously with SF4, I had no idea what I was doing when playing SF2 on Sega and arcades back in the day lol, but has it always been like this? I mean did the frame data always count the first active frame within the startup data?
Rose is not in the St.HK 2nd hit hit/miss list.
Afaik, it misses on her.
It’s for convenience’s sake - makes spotting links and stuff much easier. It’s one of those things that isn’t good logically, but works well in practice because we’re flesh and blood man-things. Though these kinds of things should really be noted in the wiki itself so the notation is abundantly clear.
Yeah that makes sense, even after I posted I was like “If a move is -3 on block then it would be easier to lookup for a move that has 3f startup instead of 2 to punish it”, the whole recovery thing made me question the entire holy frame data lol
Recovery frames data really should be fixed though, I contacted eventhubs but they probably just ignored the message, many people will continue to have the wrong numbers.
I actually agree that counting the first active frame as part of the start up is incredibly confusing because it’s not a start up frame, but at least it’s consistent. My instinct would be to look for a move with 2f start up to punish something that’s -3 on block, but that’s neither here nor there
maybe the most important question would be why are the shaku numbers right but regular fireball isn’t?
They’re both wrong on Eventhub’s frame data, they say that regular FB has 44 recovery frames while jab Shaku is 50f, which is incorrect because they should be 30f and 25f respectively. I’m pretty sure they’re counting the “Total frames” of a move as “Recovery frames” for most if not all projectiles.
SRK wiki does mention the word “Total” next to the frame number, but it’s still confusing because it’s under the “Recovery frames” column, but alt least they got it better than EH.
http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2008/nov/13/akuma-gouki-frame-data-street-fighter-4/
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I have the mp4 for all Akuma hitbox moves so I can eventually save some jpg from it, but that’s some work.
so hows the guide coming along?
I am by no means an expert with Akuma yet, but I’m more then willing to help converting Vandylizers work in the PDF format you started.
Give me a shout if you require any help.
I don’t like the actual text on this document and the way it’s sorted. So I wont use it as it is.
Thanks for the help, maybe in near future we can work on something if more people want to step up and handle a topic of the guide.
What ever happened to this?
big job for a single hand.
I’m still up for the graphic part but the writing is for somebody else. Community driven project imho. But such thing will probably never append.
i thought vandy was doing the writing. unfortunately i think we should scrap this for now and wait for the update then start fresh