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He already has a Reversal option, but you can’t use it on reaction and sacrifice 2 buttons (+command normals / throw / focus) prior to using it. I doubt even capcom is aware how limiting it is. Allowing EX Cu to be used as some kind of reversal would allow him to actually react to stuff without having to charge beforehand, but not give him an entirely new option. I mentioned Law because he has an “universal” anti air, that you both seem to want. Cody has already a strong anti air game, but that isn’t enough for you. :3

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A waste of what? It’s not like there’s a limit to the number of buffs/nerfs they can apply to one character (besides, Cody is essentially a different character when he picks up the knife - it’s almost like having a second stance like Gen, only you have to be in a certain spot to activate it!). They could buff the knife in lots of different areas and Cody would still be stronger without it, but that doesn’t mean there would never be situations in which the knife would be useful. The knife is the single most unique thing about Cody as a character and yet there isn’t enough incentive to pick it up. And for those who don’t like it, they can still carry on playing him without ever picking it up!

Of course not, however there is a problem with blocking on wakeup the vast majority of the time, which is what Cody is often forced to do. Not that he’s the only character that has this problem, but he’s among the minority. Buffing EX CU or Zonk in some of the ways we’ve talked about wouldn’t ‘fix’ his wakeup weakness either. Both are very punishable, easily baited, and require 3 bars to be made safe. At the moment there are lots of situations in which Cody doesn’t even have the option of gambling on a reversal because of Zonk’s input and EX CU’s invincibility issues.

You’re right that changes to other cast members will affect the relative ‘badness’ of his wakeup game, but we can’t know what those changes will be in advance so we can only present Cody’s issues as we see them in the current version. It’ll be interesting to see how the changes pan out across the board, but I can’t see them making too drastic a change to the vortexing characters, especially when the current version is still reasonably balanced.

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A waste of buffs. It’s not something worth focusing on. I’d rather we all ask for 3 useful buffs than 3 useful buffs, and a laundry list of others including knife buffs. That’s how you get 1 useful buff and some things we don’t need instead (not that we need much, and which will probably happen anyway).

It’s too easily to lose it. The only way the knife is ever going to be viable is if they do something like Cody doesn’t drop it unless he’s knocked down or they make it like Vega’s claw. The combo options you give up are too great. You weaken your CH game. You lose your best anti-air

^ Hey, if they fix all of that on top of giving us other useful buffs, then fine. But I have my doubts, tbh. The knife could be much more viable and less situational if they did all they had to do.

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Hardy a universal anti-air? A universal anti-air is Seth’s EX SRK. That’s a universal anti-air. Stop putting words in my mouth.

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HK Ruffian doesn’t lose unless you use it very late. Since it has a decent forward movement it would then beat pretty much everything in almost all situations. Pretty universal if you ask me. :stuck_out_tongue:

Just teasing you. You can want whatever you want. If you feel like he needs it to be more viable, you’re free to do so.

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Naah, it loses to a couple of moves when done on reaction.
Also, the definition of universal: Applicable or common to all purposes, conditions, or situations. It’s not.

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That’s why I said “almost” all situations - it would only lose to cross ups.

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That is simply false.

You can only use HK Ruffian as a viable anti air from about 1/2 - 2/3rds screen distance (or as a very risky guess up close) and only on obvious jump ins and even then it trades in many circumstances or gets counter hit. Making it SLIGHTLY better isn’t going to make it a universal anti air. First off, cross ups still beat it clean, that is a big deal. Second off fast dive kicks would still beat it clean. Characters who jump high and then can alter their jump arc or hurtbox would still cause it to whiff (Sakura - Tatsu. Seth - Wall jump. Guy - Wall Jump. Demon Flip at certain distances. Bison devils reverse. ect ect ect.)

If the forward movement is what is helping you anti air then people are jumping in at obvious distances or using obvious moves. Or you are taking advantage of the one thing HK Ruffian is good at: Anti air the occasional neutral jump at mid screen from characters like Adon.

Vertical movement would be far more effective. That is why Fei’s flame kick is a better anti air than his chicken wing. Faster, and vertical. Now vertical AND horizontal movement are the best (Ken’s DP) but vertical > horizontal for anti airing as it allows you to anti air earlier which often means counter hitting the opponent. And it means you are airborne so can’t be thrown and air reset if hit.

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That video just confirms my statement lol.^^

It didn’t lose once unless used late. Again, you’re free to think otherwise. To me, 3 decent anti airs are plenty to work with. Look at poor Bison.

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But like I said, there is no limit on what they can do with any given character so there is no such thing as a waste of buffs. You think if they buff the knife they’ll withhold buffs from him without the knife? I doubt it. Look back at the 2012 changes (for which there were a LOT of suggestions) and there were lots of changes to both, although ultimately the non-knife changes proved to be more significant. I don’t think it’s a case of ‘if everyone asks for the same 3 things we’re more likely to get them’, I think it’s more like a suggestion box and we should be suggesting anything sensible we can think of and trusting Capcom to take that advice on board. What happens if we all suggest the same 3 things but for whatever reason some of them can’t be implemented? I think as long as suggestions are sensible, it doesn’t matter how many each person makes.

Seth’s EX SRK isn’t a universal anti-air because it doesn’t cover the situations in which he doesn’t have meter. But arguing over whether something is a universal anti-air or not is just semantics anyway - I think everyone can agree that Cody’s anti-air game is already very strong.

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Your definition of late is “after their move becomes active” then? Because it only didn’t lose when it COUNTERHIT them. That is a terrible definition of “late” at that point you aren’t anti airing them you are pre-anti-airing them and relying on a guess often times.

Cody’s anti air game is strong at very very specific ranges. He has a fair number of dead spots sometimes between those ranges (anywhere between bMP and far HP. Between far HP and far HK. Anything that crosses up. Anything that is FAST.

Comparing Bisons anti air game (which is likely to be buffed) isn’t exactly the same thing. Bison also has a couple of viable air 2 air options and he has significantly more mobility than Cody and arguably a footsie game.

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And that’s the difference in our thinking. I have no problem with using b.MP, s.HK and HK Ruffians etc against different kinds of jump ins. That’s why I always say it seems you want an universally usable jump in. HK Ruffian does its job fine for the area it is supposed to hit imo. I’d rather see it buffed as combo tool, than anti air.

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I think you missed my point: there are blind spots BETWEEN the spots he is good at AA. And Cody is horrible at dealing with neutral jumps that are just outside of b.MP range.

154

Every anti air has blind spots. Cody hasn’t many, in fact only one that bothers me slightly: That against dive kicks in the lower area, but that is due to the lack of a reversal and not anti air.

155

I just quoted you on the capcom unity forums Eternal because I agree with your changes. I wanted people to read it on the 1st page.

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What I posted:

Spoiler

Cody lacks defense options more than anything else. He can be bullied for free, in particular on wake up. His neutral game isn’t that strong to make up for that disadvantage.

These are the top 3 buffs that would help him the most to be a better character overall:

-Better Backdash

This is a no brainer. A slight increase in range and/or shorter duration, would help him in specific situations. As it stands, his backdash is barely an option, since it covers no distance and is easily punished by everything. Paired with his slow backwalkspeed, it’s very difficult for Cody to get some breathing room on the ground.

-EX Criminal Upper: Strike invincibility up to the first active frame (since EX Zonk is a terrible design)

Currently it has only a few strike invulnerability frames, making it useless as reversal. EX Zonk is the ONLY move Cody can rely on, but EX Zonk is a TERRIBLE design choice due to many reasons:

-You lose 2 Buttons. That is the biggest penalty ANY reversal in the game has. Not only do you lose normals, but along also command normals (b.MP anti air, f.HP overhead, f.MP pressure) AND you also lose the ability to Tech throws, or Focus.
-Despite that it costs 1 Meter
-Despite that it is one of the slowest reversals with 16F start up in the game
-Despite that you have to “charge it”, thus making it impossible to use on reaction

The move just doesn’t work well and fails to replace his “Alpha Counter” from Street Fighter Alpha. That is why it either needs a command change (From “p charge” to PPP / KKK ala Lariat, or any other input) or we need a viable substitution: EX Criminal Upper.

Increasing the strike invincibility of EX Criminal Upper would make it a proper reversal that can be used on reaction, without sacrificing almost all our utility. It costs a meter and is still unsafe on block, so it wouldn’t affect the overall balance much. This would help Cody the most to be more viable and consistent, without having to rely on a gimmicky defense.

-EX Ruffian Kick: Projectile invincibility from frame 1 (or Armor)
In the current version, EX Ruffian Kick has to be somewhat guessed to be able to hit an opponent that throws a fireball. It’s hard to use it at anything but almost full screen (where it often doesn’t hit) to react to a fireball, since you’ll be simply hit out of it during the start up. Covering the early frames as well, would give Cody, who is one of the slower character to deal with zoning properly at the expense of an meter. The move has currently just almost no use. Again, this would make Cody a lot more reliable since you don’t have to take risks by throwing it out on a good guess. Otherwise, giving it 1 Armor (ala EX Punches form Balrog) could also fulfill the role. It would mean it loses to EX Fireballs, but also make it viable to catch limbs.

Secondary changes that would slightly improve his gameplan:
-Ultra 2: Safe against airborne opponent:
That the pipe hits whiff against an airborne juggled opponent after the dust (and therefore the cinematic) is okay, but you shouldn’t be punished for correctly reacting to your opponents jump in. Simply making the pipe animation stop after the first hit “whiffs” would let Cody recover in time before the opponent recovers from his knockdown. If the first pipe hit is blocked the ultra behaves normally and does the other two as well, leaving him as punishable as he should be for using the ultra incorrectly. This would also allow him to use the Ultra in combos for a very slight damage increase (since only the dust hits) without being widely open afterwards.

-Fake Bad Stone: Shorten overall duration or make it “block”-cancelable (like Knife Pick up)
The benefit over just throwing a normal rock is very small. It’s the slowest feint in the game and has therefore barely a reason to be used. Making its duration shorter overall, or cancelable by at least blocking, would mean much to his footsie shenanigans.

-Crack Kick (f.HK): Better hurt box / airborne
It’s one of the tools Cody should make use of, but is often just no option since the move has a very bad hurtbox and is somewhat slow. It get’s beaten by almost every low in the game, despite “hopping” over them. Making it low-invulnerable by lifting the hurtbox would make it a proper option in our offense.

-HK Ruffian: Shorter recovery or usable on crouching opponent
A shorter recovery would mean we could follow it up easier after using it against badly timed jump ins and trades.
Making it usable on crouching opponent would mean we could trade meter for additional damage against a crouching opponent.

-s.MK better as poke
If the hit box is increased and/or the start up faster, it could be a viable poke. Currently Cody has only a very slow s.HK and a somewhat short c.LK as pokes. The missing of a real “crouching mk” is very noticeable.

-Reducing crouching MK’s recovery
Removing 1 or 2 frames of its recovery would make it a better tool to use.

-LP Criminal Upper: Slightly safer on block (-5 -> -3)
There is just no reason to use LP or MP version of Criminal Upper. It’s a combo only move, so the start up doesn’t matter. Buffing LP Criminal Upper’s frame advantage would give it a purpose:A block string ender. Cody currently has none, since everything is either heavily unsafe or way to slow (Rocks). It would not affect him much, but give him a new option. It would act like Ryu’s c.MK xx Hadoken on block and would give Cody any sort of chip damage potential. c.LK xx LP Criminal Upper has a gap on block where he can be reversaled in between, just like Ryu’s hadoken.
Making it -3 would make him lose his momentum, but be reasonable safe against punishes - a fair trade off.

-LP / MP Bad Stone -Adding a higher “arc”:
In Alpha 3, his Bad Stone also cover a bit of horizontal space since they fly in an arc. Retaining this property to SF4 would make him a way more interesting character. LP Bad Stone has no reach and could therefore have a reasonable high arc. MP flies further away and should have a lower arc. HP Bad Stone almost hits fullscreen and can remain the same (so does EX).

BUG FIXES (not buffs)
-Cody’s crouching knife attacks are considered “standing” attacks. That means that he can be hit by “standing only” moves ala Lariat (later hits), High Tiger shot and various other moves.
-Cody’s b.MP is unable to counter hit
-Cody’s far s.MK and far s.MK while holding the knife have different size hurtboxs and hitboxes.
-Cody’s Super regularly drops the opponent out of a clean hit.
-Cody’s Badspray from a face up knockdown has 20F more recovery than his Badspray from a face down knockdown.

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Eternal, that is a nice list, however could you, like you did on the previous page elaborate the reasoning for these changes on the capcom-unity forums.
I’ll try to post sometime later, but it’s in line with what most people here would like to see also and will help Cody alot.

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What are some reasonable nerfs Cody should get when he gains some of these buffs, or even reasonable without these buffs? Stun reduction? Making lk ruffian more unsafe?
I don’t mind that because players that are random will get the hit.

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With the buffs, it’s hard to say, but he doesn’t need any real nerfs imo, since he has no abusable or cheap stuff. If you’re set to nerf something, stun / damage is the only thing that should be touched.

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http://www.capcom-unity.com/street_fighter/go/thread/view/7411/29831841/cody-balance-suggestions?post_num=65#530845637