so every bit of info on here should only be tournament info only? why not learn everything? how many times are you going to play j. wong?why not learn to do things cause they are fun? and if they do not have a DP?
that would be why i said to go into training and try it out for yourselves.
nothing works every time, not even ultra. we all still use it though.
and again, anything will work if the other player does not expect it.
They might not expect it, but good players can react to gief using FA as an AA, they’ll just empty jump and throw you out of it. Not everyone has a DP but everyone has a throw. It doesn’t take more than paying attention to see a FA coming.
No good player is going to fall for it so its a bad habit to get yourself into.
and if you only use it once a match? or not at all in a match?why do you assume that this is something to use ALL of the time?i don’t recall ever saying that.
most good players are pretty recognizable pretty quick.they usually DO NOT jump at me which takes care or using it there. and so they punish you once, so dont do it again. but they dont know that you are not going to do it again.now they are thinking about it.
do you play every game like you are practicing for a tournament? ANYTHING can be abused if you keep doing it over and over and over.
and i can use their expectation of a fa to bait them into something.
and if i ever play in a tournament i will remember that the same old zangief robot playstyle that **EVERY ** gief plays will win more than not. Never try anything different for ANY reason. just keep doing the same old stuff.it does work but gets boring.
i dont recall telling anyone that they have to do any of this, every match. i believe i said to go into training and see what works for yourself. do or do not. i dont care.
if i had more failures with fa’s than success than i would never mention it. i have had sucess against some good players. including some of you. i have also lost.c’est la vie
Good players don’t jump at Gief usally so using it as AA is kinda m00t honestly…
and every match is against good players? in tournament settings? and do good players ever mess up, miss something. are we talking about good players or perfect ones.
I guess the other angle is to compare it to Gief’s other AA and see if it is ever the better option…
C.Lariat is his universal AA, though it has a couple of weakness…
FA as AA…
C.Mp
S.RH
Headbutt
I might be forgetting a few thigns admittedly, but I have a hard time picking the FA over the other three options. It looks good though…and can setup nice stuff against ‘average’ competition…so for that it has uses…but I’d ‘personally’ feel better just C.Lariating any jump-in that I can’t s.rh…
Gief’s Lvl 1 FA beats Honda n.j.hp clean. It hits Honda in the ankles.
you are right. everything here is right and i disagree with nothing you said.
and i point out again… if the other player is not expecting it, Anything can work. I am playing off of the typical Gief robot approach. i am doing what they expect the least. and fa’s are what they expect the least.
**again this is not for every time. **
i use this mostly at the very beginning of a match/round, or at the end. i practice against it against lesser comp, and will try it out against better comp. if they stuff it outright than there is no reason to keep trying.is there.
there are better options but that does not mean that it is completely useless.
NO ONE expects you to use it till you do.but everyone expects the options you listed. than they are looking for and thinking about it,(mindgames anyone).And considering the extra damage it can lead to than why not throw it in once in a while.
and each one of the options you mentioned here can be punished in some way if the other player is looking for it.AS with any move.
for headbutt you put “4) catches people off guard” that is what a well timed FA can do, and lead to more damage.
oh yeah, it does work good for n.jump attacks. again they are not expecting it.
FA can work as an anti-air. It catches people off guard and can lead to very big damage. Gief’s game centers around choosing unexpected options and an AA FA is unexpected.
That being said, FA is a very risky AA. cr.lariat, cr.mp, and headbutt all catch players in the air. With FA, your opponent has to hit the ground for you to use it to its full extent. If you miss the FA release by even a few frames, this leaves an opportunity for any move with invincibility frames that a quick thinker can get off.
In a perfect scenario, FA crumples and gives you free ultra or any other combo you wanna try.
Just like in a perfect scenario:
Cr.lariat gets a clean knockdown or a trade knockdown with an extra EXGH hit, cross-ups and mind games follow.
Cr.mp stuffs air attacks and opens opportunities to get in.
Headbutt stuns and gives you free ultra or any other combo you want to try, including FA -> whatever you want.
To reiterate:
You’re right, FA works as an AA. I just don’t like using it because I find the other 3 options to be safer and just as effective.
This tactic isn’t even good against scrub players b/c they mash. Uppercut/jab/whatever after a jump in. That’s why block/ EX SPD works so well against scrubs.
One thing to consider, even if you “anti air” them. If you focus and hit them out of the air. Good? No, they go into spiral animation and they fly across the screen. No okizeme. Match Reset.
The best case scenario is that they jump in, aim semi high, you absorb the hit, charge focus 18 frames, and manage to let your 15 frame startup move hit in the 7-9 frame window between their landing recovery (4 frames) and next move (3-5 frames depending on the character), crumpling them and letting you get Atomic Buster/720.
The single best Anti Air option is to cr. Lariat and dial in an FADC.
If you trade, no FADC and you get EX green hand-> okizeme
If you dont trade, you FADC lariats recovery into EX GH or regular green hand-> Okizeme.
Does kick lariat beat things or does it get straight stuffed as AA?
kick lariat has a bigger hitbox than punch lariat (goukens air FB and sagats punch FB hit kick lariat but not punch lariat) so it could intersect with the crouch hitbox if not have stricter timing and do less damage.
ok I rarely get the flying spiral when i use this. sometimes, but rarely. and again i reiterate, i usually use this at the beginning of a match or at the end,(or round). i usually use this about once or twice **if **at all.or when i completley expect them to throw a normal at me. and i think this revolves around other players being trained to expect certain things from gief. wether in your match or from their accumulative experiance against giefs.
you’re telling me that it does not work against a certain type of player but my in game experiance tells me otherwise.
and reset them closer to the corner is better than the middle of the stage is it not?
again i think that you are assuming that i mean that you shoud use this Every time, and i am not.i believe i have always said to try this in training, and to mix this in.
i am not talking about the best option here. and i think this is where the problem is. i am talking about another option that they are probably not expecting at all. if done at the beginning of round/match they are expecting it the rest of the match and weary of jumping(or whatever attack you hit them with) and at the end of round/match they are not expecting it at All.
and the **Best ** case senario is you hit them with a FA and they crumple. than you hit them with your most damaging option. worst case is what you are describing.
and what does kick lariat have to do with anything?
i also think that you are ignoreing the other uses for fa,and focusing on the one of 2 options i mentioned here(which brings me back to training and seeing what works for you, that i have said in a couple of posts).
it works against vipers flame kick, chuns flip kick(not the one where she flips over you) just to name a couple. just like blankas rainbow roll or bisons DR?. are 2 options better than 1? 3 better than 2? this is just another option that is completly underutelized with gief.
do or do not. i dont care. just try and see for yourselves. and there are better options that i use **most **of the time.
i just reread your earlier post which you said this, "This is shenanigans and should only work once on any good players."
and this is just what i am suggesting. is one time not good enough against good players? is that not just about all you get against good players with anything you do?
I main Fuerte, But I use gief occasionally. Honestly, Other then Focusing a Fuerte whom I know is gonna splash, or a badly done Cannon Drill I dont bother with the FA for him, good range and all. but too slow, especially with Gief’s slow dashes.
I really only use his FA on dizzied opponents or against certain characters ultras that have long punishable recoveries. Sometimes I do use it randomly though.
FA followed by a tic(c. mk,c.lk…) to ultra/super/spd/ex hand, makes for full damage.
and if you do not have an ultra or super yet at that point of the round? of course it can be countered or avoided but the extra damage is significant.
I remember this from another thread, I gave you the benefit of the doubt and tried it out online. I started mixing this into my dizzy stuns. Lv3 FA->cr.mk->spd, it does ALOT of damage and clinches a round really fast. But when I started using it against better opponents (only use it once a match at most) they jump out or counter more than 50% of the time. I’ve even eaten an ultra combo off a ryu.
Its a great idea in theory, but in practice the risk has not been worth the reward for me.
I saw a replay of this one guy online who would not take a hint that cr.mk into SPD or ultra was not working for him. He landed an SPD ONCE the first time he did it and he never landed anymore. Needless to say, he lost. Not a very bright gief… It’s so easy to punish that shit, it’s not even funny. At least use cr.lk so they have less time to react. But even then, they’ll probably start to jump out of it or mash reversal SRK. So mixed it up more and you’ll have more success in landing it or at least makes them guess more to make more mistakes. I saw another replay of another “brilliant” gief that had no idea how to stop Ryu’s neutral jump mk that he just gave up by the end of the first round. He just sat there. I got a kick out of that. Well he tried to land a pretty obvious ultra first. After it whiffed, he just stood there.
im a scrubby gief (still cant do his b&b and just recently figured out how to do FADC (KKK -> FADC -> EXGH)) and Im wondering whats the best thing to do with gief after I get the opponent stunned in these situations:
also I saw a video of someone using FA against a whiffed(gied blocked) dp. is this safe?
mixing it in does not mean that it must be mixed in every match. (how many dizzies do you actually get).not that you can only use this against dizzied opponents
and it does work better against charge players. (what colin is responding to) i have eaten plenty of counters with this.giefs life advantage gives you the chance to take risks and be punished,but not that often.
like i said it is counterable and escapeable(not that anyone would forget that with all the responses that say just that). and surely not for everyone in every match.
there are ways to play off their expectations of this but after the response(in messages (mostly) i have recieved) i will not be posting them. not even just for fun(no matter how damaging they are). and some of it is just for fun.this game is supposed to be fun right?
last i checked this thread was about giefs FA attack. not about what can work 100% of the time.which nothing does
it has taken me around 2 months to work this into my gameplay. and i am still learning.fa’s work much better now than when i started trying them.
and why would you keep doing something that is not working?if i try to break down a brick wall with my head and it cracks my skull the first time, why would i try again?
are you insinuating something?
gief has several moves that can be focus canceled, maybe for a reason. maybe not. but if no one gives it a real shot other than just reading frame data no one will ever find out for sure
1, 2, & 3) dash forward (input the dash as you see the FA connect) and do the most damaging combo you know you can do 100% or just spd.
Practice your bnb, its worth the practice. Read up on http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=166501 to see how to get it down.
I’ve only seen lariat->FADC->EXGH once in high-level play. If you got 3 bars of meter and need to clinch that last damage to kill them its good, but besides that its a waste of meter.
If you’re talking about Lv2 or Lv3 FA (makes them crumple) it is very slow to pull off. If it was a jab dp no way thats safe, if it was a fierce dp i could see it being possible. In both situations its much safer to spd or tick your ultra.
If you want to not self declare yourself a “scrubby gief” read shoryuken as much as possible, especially the character match-up thread. It helped my game so much.