New topic because this forum is dead. I don’t see this mentioned often but why don’t people advocate using cr. lk xx hadoken as a spacing tool more? I know its not a true block string I feel its still good enough to cover the space that cr. mp might not. Think of it as a worse version of Ryu’s cr. mk. Any insight? Am I being crazy?
It’s not used as much because the block gap is so huge that it is easily focusable, even online, and the lack of double fireball makes focus a very safe guess to make.
The “answer”, such as it is, is to use a more diverse Cr.lk followup. Xx palm in proper range, dash up or back, NJ, xx flip to catch focuses.
Ultimately, gouken has several interesting mind games, but nothing solid on its own. And that’s a great example of why he is lowest tier. But its fun when the.mind games pay off.
I’m gonna try xx hado and see how much mileage I get out of it. Man, I wish Gouken had a two-hit EX fireball.
It’s useful, but you can go through it with focus, or just do a special with invincibility or ultra. Then you’re fucked!
Just have your counter options and you’ll be ok.
Consider cr lk to be the tree and the options to be the branches.
-cr. lk, (another normal > string?)
-cr. lk xx hado
-cr. lk xx palm
-cr. lk xx tatsu
-cr. lk flip > (the business)
-cr. lk, forward dash
-cr. lk, back dash
Your goal is that you want to stop people from advancing. I’d be more concerned with how comfortable I am with people being outside for st. mk range.
St. hk is good too, but people can focus it.
You want to throw fireballs at the range where if they fadc, you can tag them when they dash forward; and anything further out than that (zoning).
When you see people abusing focus trying to get in, dash up and grab them (I normally forward throw them, since back throw is slower it’s more likely to get teched).
The more comfortable you get with being mid-range and grounded with Gouken, the better you seem to be. It’s just tough to figure it out sometimes b/c it’s not cut and dry.
You can also use use st.lk to catch them when they focus dash in and buffer ex tatsu after it and it won’t come out unless it makes contact, it comes out if they block as well though.
Yeah, there’s a way to do it and get get 2 lks on whiff and lk xx ex tatsu on hit.
Pretty much any time I use cr.MP->fireball, the opponent just blocks, and I’m perhaps even lucky he didn’t FADC the fireball, but with cr.LK->fireball, the fireball actually hits surprisingly often.
Mind you, this is still against the same players who don’t FADC after cr.MP, though…
Still, the block-stun is so unorthodox for a relatively long-range move like cr.LK, and that is a small plus in itself.
Besides that, it also has a better hurt-box than cr.MP, so that’s 2 points for cr.LK, but then it’s 2 points for cr.MP because of its extra damage and potential to combo, so I’d say use cr.LK when you need the safer hurt-box… and while we’re thinking safety, ya might as well combo to LP Palm instead, as the -4 recovery is pretty negligible, usually…
But back on topic; yeah, cr.LK->fireball works pretty well!
The only normal x fireball cancel gouken has that you could really call a “good” choice is cr.HP. The rest of them are situationally useful because they’re not really combos (well, cr.MP x Fireball at close range), let alone blockstrings. I think if you do it every once in a while you shouldn’t have a problem, but if you make a habit of it, better players will catch on and make you regret it (focus, or maybe even a raw jump).
Frankly, though, Gouken isn’t really that kind of character. He isn’t a shoto and doesn’t control space the same way they do. He’s more like Guile. His normals are very good, but they are mostly for keeping opponents out and getting big, single hits.
keep in mind Gouken is built for CH setups following normals
Id say far lk>hado with a buffered os backdash /kongoshin at the end is great. CRhp (fingertip cancel)>mp/lp is equal range if not a bit better than crmk>hado(ryu)