It says LP Dash Straight is -1 on hit/block. Where did you get it saying it was changed to -3?
They said they were changing it to -1 on block, which meant relentless pressure. They’re changing it to -1 on hit though, not block. Which is essentially useless lol.
I don’t see the point of his overhead punch changes. The problem with them is that they’re too damn slow to startup. Anyone with half a brain can see it and block/attack on reaction. It’s not the charge time that’s the problem, it’s the startup time.
It says -1 on hit and they crossed out the -3 to -1 on block, which means they removed that change. So LP dash straight is -3 again on block.
Combofiend said they want Balrog to be more offensive and more like his Super Turbo incarnation…I don’t see how with these changes. Still no reason to use overhead, dash straight still punishable by 3 frame moves. Looks like another boring/defensive incarnation of Boxer.
They made two of the overheads safe now, and the medium one can still combo off of counter hit and probably meaty too. There will be reason to use them, because opponents won’t know the difference in the one you used (unless you use EX) so they might try to punish to no avail. Overheads are a very important part of my game, though. I disagree with there being no reason to use them.
I do think, however, they need faster startup.
I agree with you Captin, not crazy fast but a little more faster would be nice
Like the changes so far. Gonna put boxer in a good spot. The best changes are the TAP changes. With red focus being part of the game armor breakers go up in stock and TAP being safe, not requiring a charge, causing juggle states against air, and breaking armor makes it an incredible move.
Boxer needed the dash straight change. If they removed that, we still cannot compete as a rush down character, we will still have to sit and wait for a mistake rather than rushing down as in the turbo days. I will never stop playing him, but I was really really looking forward to that change specifically.
1.3 range on U2 seems really drastic like they really want us to use the move. I think it will still be useless because no matter what kind of setup you try, if your opponent isn’t hitting buttons they are going to jump and you will eat a full combo.
The overhead changes completely miss the whole problem with the move: the snail-like startup. I appreciate the idea of giving different strengths of the same move different uses, but now I can’t do my trusty [cr.mp > unexpected jab ovrhd > full combo] trick but I can live with that. I like that I can mix up with jab ovrhd and that dash low move a lot more safely.
what is this suposed to mean?
“Light Dash Punch: Able to move faster after connecting with this attack (-2F->-1F)”
It means that they changed how many frames it takes for Balrog to recover from that move. Before it took him 2 frames to recover from the move. Now it only takes 1.
But does that mean the move has better frame advantage on block/hit than before?
Yes, it means now that when dash straight hits, Balrog recovers from it 1 frame less than before. IMO a completely useless change as it doesn’t make any difference to his game, but whatever.
Overhead changes are still useless. Until the startup time is changed, I still think it’ll be a bad move that’s only effective online. I’d rather it being faster startup and being much less safe on block than have it safe on block and the same startup.
I don’t know. Combofiend said Balrog was one of the characters that changed the most, but reading the changes, I’m calling BS on that.
My prediction is that U2 will still not ever be used. Overheads will still be horrible and only used in onilne play. Other than that TAP will still be TAP, the changes mean nothing really. TAP will just be used as it always has, and the -1 frame recovery won’t mean anything.
Balrog is exactly at the same spot he was in 2012.
I’m actually hoping they have the “Edition Select” thing in online Ranked and Endless matches and most importantly at the arcade cabinets. Then I can play vanilla Boxer with 160 damage headbutts, pre-nerf headbutt recovery and pre-nerf standing lp hitbox. Much better than this -1 frame lp dash punch recovery and overhead change nonsense.
Honestly, as a longtime Rog user I couldn’t agree more with this. A lot of the changes rog is getting aren’t addressing any of his real issues and some of the “buffs” are actually nerfs.
In high level, Balrog has a hard time with people who just downback all day and occasionally neutral jump or back jump a rush punch and get a full combo punish. His moves to stop neutral and back jumps (LK rush upper and HP headbutt) often get beat out clean or whiff completely in many situations.
Rog’s most glaring issues:
- doesn’t have a crossup
- doesn’t have a fast low that can be hit confirmed into a combo
- does not have a Kara throw
- no command throw
- overhead is super slow
- no mid range pokes faster than 7 frames
He doesn’t need to get all of those things but they should improve what he does have already to compensate for what he lacks. Don’t want to give him mixups? So make him faster! The way they are changing his overhead is actually a nerf because they kept the slow startup speed. The strangest change is the latest change to MP overhead. They changed it from -7 to -6 on block and from +10 to +2 on hit. So basically it’s still slow, still just as punishable (by DP’s, SPD’s, normals, etc.) and now he won’t able to combo from it. By comparison, Dudley can easily combo from his crouching LK and his overhead has 15f startup, only -1 on block and leads to full damaging combos on hit. Sakura’s overhead has twice the range of Rog’s has 16f startup and safer. Guile overhead 15f startup, longer range, also safe. Even Sagat’s overhead is faster than Rog’s USF4 overhead. None of those overheads require charge either so they have more chances to sneak them in. What they should do is make the LP version have fast startup like 15f but keep it unsafe on block and not able to combo on hit. Make the MP version like 19f startup, SAFE on block, also not able to combo on hit. Then keep the Hp version the high risk/high reward version (+10 on hit/-8 on block). That way rog will have access to a FAST overhead that won’t lead to damage, a SAFE overhead that won’t lead to damage, and a SLOW RISKY overhead that DOES to lead to damage. This is balanced in my opinion. EX overhead can stay exactly the same because I think it’s thanks to the armor. Low rushes should also be made 2 frames faster on startup and 4 frames safer on block. -8 on block for LP low rush is horrible. The startup is so slow you can’t even combo into Low rush in most situations. It’s slow, loses to focus attack, and horribly unsafe.
Lastly, Ultra 2 will never be good until they make it unjumpable after the ultra freeze. Personally, I want to see it unjumpable but do like 200 damage/500 stun at max. That way you can do a combo and have the threat of stun available to you while you have ultra charged. The threat of it being unjumpable will force the opponent to open up their guard which is what Balrog needs.
Hi Folks!
I`am a long Time Boxer Player to, and for me it seems like Capcom dont want improve Boxer but than it would be better to let him stay like he is and not tool around on him and his framedata.
sry for my bad gramma i hope u understand what i will say.
his best change at the moment i think is his option to do a Straight on the and of Ultra . now more whiffs on 3/4 Screen Dash Ultras.
I got some time to play with USF4 Balrog at Final Round and he’s pretty much the same. The “game” feels different, but boxer does not. None of the changes really stand out to me aside from U2 damage/input nerf, couldn’t bring myself to even try it. Otherwise he’s completely and totally the same.
Game system changes will shoot him up the tier list though, most likely top of mid-tier or bottom upper-tier along with Fei Long (who most certainly will be “the” or near the very top IMO). Simply because gameplay changes put much more emphasis on neutral game to which Balrog dominates.
So, in your opinion, it’s that useless the lp overhead “buff”? I am very new from this game but, in my opinion, it’s a great thing to have an overhead that is safe on block since I think that, maybe, will be possible to make something from the 0 ob situation.
Excluding this, you really think that Balrog is exactly the same as the v.2012?
Personally yes. safe overhead is useful for opponents who can’t block overheads or punish them on reaction. It’s only “practical” use is from cancels, notably cr.mp. IMO it’s got zero use in the neutral game, it’s not going to be used from neutral to open anyone up. Take note of every “overhead” in the game. None of them require back-charge. Most are command normals, Blanka, Viper, Dudley, Ryu, Ken, Akuma, Gouken etc. Balrog can’t really walk up and perform an overhead. So it’s not a threat, It “will not” open anyone up, not really. Sure its possibly safe pressure, but it doesn’t do a lot for him.
IMO buffs to Balrog would be buffing his neutral game, like hitbox changes to his sweep, or damage increases to his pokes. For example making cr.hk/st.hk, st.hp do more damage/stun than currently. Overhead doesn’t give him any advantage in high level (or even mid level for that matter) except that it’s a YOLO attack with high risk high reward.
The fact that you can’t combo from lp overhead anymore makes it stupid.
I feel so stupid just for have asked this xD.
You think he will suffer from the change into usf4? He will be still good as he is used to be here? I am asking you this because I am putting a lot of effort in his learning and I would like to have a “point” about how he will be in this new game.
Have I said that I’m hella noob in sf? XD
I still think he will be really good (read better) in USF4, but not because of his buffs, but because of delayed wakeup. Matchups like Akuma, Seth, Ibuki, Cammy. Vortex characters, notably vortex characters that attack in that 90 degree angle straight up then in front and behind. An area Balrog has a tough time of dealing with. He now can delay wakeup and ONLY deal with ground pressure. Something he has the tools to directly fight over. The difference in hard knockdowns (ALL knockdowns: throw, sweep, Super, Ultra) when you do delayed wakeup is like 11f (maybe), so no-one can double jump for a setup, well maybe rolento with the pole jump. But it means that, neutral and ground game are tons more important than being able to deal with cross-ups and unblockables.
So your time won’t be wasted. As a character he’s the same, but with the new system mechanics, he should have a much easier time transitioning to USF4 than say Akuma.