USF4 | Unlisted Changes

[street11]

Okay, so I tested a few stuff. If I’m explaining a string for spacing, it always starts from point blank range.

Akuma

• The following combo works with USF4 Akuma: Focus Crumple>forward dash, cr.LK xx cr.LP xx cr.LP, cr.MK xx LK Tatsu. LK Tatsu whiffs with 2012 Akuma
• There seems to be no difference at all in his UC1. Damage, number of hits, and meter gain are the same. U1 and W Ultra’s UC1 seem to be the same as well, but I need to test one more thing.

Dudley

• EX Short Swing Blow seems to be 20f start-up from various tests. It is at least as safe as 2012 EX SSB (cannot get punished by SRK or Gouken’s Super on block)

El Fuerte

• Regarding far st.LK, If you do Focus Crumple>forward dash, cr.LP xx cr.LP xx st.LP, far st.LK will always connect on standing Abel. In 2012 far st.LK will sometimes whiff.
• Sweep, backdash, f+MK doesn’t corpse hop on Fuerte in USF4. It does corpse hop in 2012

Fei Long

• LP Rekka does seem to have its pushback nerfed by very little in all ranges except for very tip, where it has almost no pushback. I have to test more to confirm this.

Gouken

• MP rush punch travels the exact same distance

Hakan

• Against crouching Dhalsim, MK/HK oil dive and MP/HP Super does not go over in USF4. In 2012 Hakan hopped over (LK oil dive and LP Super did not hop over in the first place). Tried both oiled and unoiled versions.

Ibuki

• f+MK horizontal range seems to be the same

Ken

• Put one Ken in the corner, get in point blank range, then backdash 3 times with the other Ken. In this spacing USF4 Ken’s cr.MK will always beat 2012 Ken’s cr.MK without exception.

[Eternal]

Kens hk air tatsu got a big hit box buff
I think his cr. Mk got the hurt box reduced

I think you might be mistaken on the HK Air Tatsu due to the fact it got a physics change it might be hitting in new situations that it whiffed previously. The files show no change to hitbox size on the tatsu regardless of when it was done. the crMK thing is something shinebox brought up before and we discussed before I even made this thread but thanks for contributing!

[M00nTiger]

I played PR Rog on Alpha Clash a few days ago. Ibuki’s overhead crossed up when it caught Balrog’s stand tech attempt on his wakeup, it looked so dumb considering it crossed up on a standing fat character. Her backhand punch (far hp>hp TC) is special and jump cancellable on whiff. It kinda works like Sagat’s f.lk or f.hk, but the cancellable frame isn’t as good as Sagat’s f.hk.

[Eternal]

I played PR Rog on Alpha Clash a few days ago. Ibuki’s overhead crossed up when it caught Balrog’s stand tech attempt on his wakeup, it looked so dumb considering it crossed up on a standing fat character. Her backhand punch (far hp>hp TC) is special and jump cancellable on whiff. It kinda works like Sagat’s f.lk or f.hk, but the cancellable frame isn’t as good as Sagat’s f.hk.

Wait… on WHIFF?! Totally missed that (the files only list a number for the conditions. So for example “On Hit + On Block” just shows up as “6” so it’s easy to over look :P)

Just checked and you’re right, and I see why I missed it. Her condition (e.g. the requirement to be able to cancel) is 0. BUT the index number for her Special moves is “6” so I misread it

 {
      "StartFrame": 0,
      "EndFrame": 7,
      "Condition": 0,
      "CancelList": 6
 },
 {
      "StartFrame": 5,
      "EndFrame": 7,
      "Condition": 1,
      "CancelList": 6
 }

@street11 thanks for all those tests, updated main post.

[street11]

I forgot to mention Guy.

I put a dummy Guy in the corner, got in point blank range, jumped back once, and did U1 during landing recovery. Up to the 3rd hit the spacing was the same, but on the 4th hit 2012 Guy had the tip of his foot hitting the dummy Guy’s shoulder, while USF4 Guy had his foot hitting the dummy Guy’s head.

Also I had to lol at Ibuki’s whiff cancel on her backhand.

[Eternal]

About E.Honda, let me clarify on that.
He has basically no pushback if EX headbutt hits during the first 2 active frames (making it very punishable on block). Juri can do cr.HP xx whatever for max damage.
If EX headbutt hits during later active frames (from midscreen or farther) it has a bigger pushback but still less than AE2012’s.

I think they made this decision because Honda can still fadc his headbutt in those 2 active frames to make it safe.

You sure about this? Because files show that it should be no pushback on block regardless of what frame he connects. They changed the pushback distance on both damage tables and they added the new recoil animation on block to run for the entire duration of the active frames. On hit was not changed from what I can see. Only on block.

Note, I’m not talking about the distance between two characters. I’m talking about pushback on block. E.G. does the opponents character move backwards when they block EX HB or does only Honda move? The way it appears to be now only Honda moves which means that a blocked headbutt doesn’t gain Honda any sort of ground as he doesn’t move the opponent any closer to the corner even if they don’t punish.

[M00nTiger]

There’s something iffy about USF4 Guy’s hitbox. Ibuki’s old tsumuji loops no longer work on him.

[Eternal]

There’s something iffy about USF4 Guy’s hitbox. Ibuki’s old tsumuji loops no longer work on him.

All tsumuji’s got hitbox adjustments and MK got 1F more recovery. This is noted in patch notes. This could be what is affecting it.

[M00nTiger]

There’s something iffy about USF4 Guy’s hitbox. Ibuki’s old tsumuji loops no longer work on him.

All tsumuji’s got hitbox adjustments and MK got 1F more recovery. This is noted in patch notes. This could be what is affecting it.

Her old loops remain the same except for Guy. There’s also another loop on Dudley that didn’t work in AE2012, but work in USF4 which is her max damage double loop (St.MP, St.MK xx LK Tsumuji, St.LP, St.MK xx LK Tsumuji, St. LP, St.MK xx Special). MK Tsumuji recovery change was only for the 3rd hit low ender so that she can have a perfect frame 4f safe jumps for normal wakeup. That shouldn’t change MK tsumuji loops. It looked like a nerf, but it was more of a buff.

[Eternal]

There’s something iffy about USF4 Guy’s hitbox. Ibuki’s old tsumuji loops no longer work on him.

All tsumuji’s got hitbox adjustments and MK got 1F more recovery. This is noted in patch notes. This could be what is affecting it.

Her old loops remain the same except for Guy. There’s also another loop on Dudley that didn’t work in AE2012, but work in USF4 which is her max damage double loop (St.MP, St.MK xx LK Tsumuji, St.LP, St.MK xx LK Tsumuji, St. LP, St.MK xx Special). MK Tsumuji recovery change was only for the 3rd hit low ender so that she can have a perfect frame 4f safe jumps for normal wakeup. That shouldn’t change MK tsumuji loops. It looked like a nerf, but it was more of a buff.

According to both the files
http://watissf.dantarion.com/sfultradiff/IBK_AE2012_TO_ULTRA.html#change-TSUMUJI_MTSUMUJI_M
And the change list
http://www.capcom-unity.com/combofiend/blog/2014/05/22/usfiv-final-character-change-list

It wasn’t the low followup it was the initial 2 hits. 14F recovery increased to 15F. Low followup is 15F recovery already and 3rd hit is 17F.

[street11]

Hmmm… but it shouldn’t change the loops involving LK Tsumuji, should it? Something feels off when I try Ibuki and her Tsumuji as well, but I cannot quite put my finger on what. I’ll try to test Ibuki’s Tsumuji extensively tmrw.

[Shinebox]

The Docter is out! Hondaluva is in and takin request!

Ken
crouching MK hurtbox reverted to Super status
EX Tatsu hits overhead again
F+HK blockstun increased by 4F (Capcom notes claim 1F and that Ken’s F+HK was only -1F on block.) Ken’s F+HK in AE2012 = -4F on block -1 on hit. USF4 it’s 0F on block -1 on hit

MP Shoryuken floats opponent higher on the second hit

[Eternal]

Hmmm… but it shouldn’t change the loops involving LK Tsumuji, should it? Something feels off when I try Ibuki and her Tsumuji as well, but I cannot quite put my finger on what. I’ll try to test Ibuki’s Tsumuji extensively tmrw.

ALL tsumuji’s had their hitbox moved down and increased in height which could screw with some chars because of reeling animations. I dunno though.

[street11]

Hmmm… but it shouldn’t change the loops involving LK Tsumuji, should it? Something feels off when I try Ibuki and her Tsumuji as well, but I cannot quite put my finger on what. I’ll try to test Ibuki’s Tsumuji extensively tmrw.

ALL tsumuji’s had their hitbox moved down and increased in height which could screw with some chars because of reeling animations. I dunno though.

I see. I didn’t know hitbox location could effect reeling animations. That explains why 2012 f+MK and USF4 f+MK have different reels on standing Ryu on hit. I’ll try to come up with an answer tmrw as I said.

I didn’t know MP Shoryuken’s 2nd hit floated higher. Doesn’t that happen because the opponent is now going up in the air after the 1st hit, causing 2nd hit to connect at a higher spot?

[M00nTiger]

Oh OK, so maybe not hitbox issue. The reeling animation was farther away on Guy in USF4, that’s why the tsumuji loop don’t work on him. This kinda sucks because the buff still hasn’t fix the issue of tsumuji whiffing on some crouching characters =/

[Eternal]

Hmmm… but it shouldn’t change the loops involving LK Tsumuji, should it? Something feels off when I try Ibuki and her Tsumuji as well, but I cannot quite put my finger on what. I’ll try to test Ibuki’s Tsumuji extensively tmrw.

ALL tsumuji’s had their hitbox moved down and increased in height which could screw with some chars because of reeling animations. I dunno though.

I see. I didn’t know hitbox location could effect reeling animations. That explains why 2012 f+MK and USF4 f+MK have different reels on standing Ryu on hit. I’ll try to come up with an answer tmrw as I said.

I didn’t know MP Shoryuken’s 2nd hit floated higher. Doesn’t that happen because the opponent is now going up in the air after the 1st hit, causing 2nd hit to connect at a higher spot?

Yeah, you can tell by doing jumping attacks and hitting at different heights.

@street11 also sometimes the SAME hit at the SAME position can cause different reeling animations if it was the first hit in a combo (E.G. if you do Tsumuji as the starter the first hit might cause a dif reeling than the 2nd hit.)

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hl5urhRP87A

[Eternal]

Hmmm… but it shouldn’t change the loops involving LK Tsumuji, should it? Something feels off when I try Ibuki and her Tsumuji as well, but I cannot quite put my finger on what. I’ll try to test Ibuki’s Tsumuji extensively tmrw.

ALL tsumuji’s had their hitbox moved down and increased in height which could screw with some chars because of reeling animations. I dunno though.

I see. I didn’t know hitbox location could effect reeling animations. That explains why 2012 f+MK and USF4 f+MK have different reels on standing Ryu on hit. I’ll try to come up with an answer tmrw as I said.

I didn’t know MP Shoryuken’s 2nd hit floated higher. Doesn’t that happen because the opponent is now going up in the air after the 1st hit, causing 2nd hit to connect at a higher spot?

The Docter is out! Hondaluva is in and takin request!

Ken
crouching MK hurtbox reverted to Super status
EX Tatsu hits overhead again
F+HK blockstun increased by 4F (Capcom notes claim 1F and that Ken’s F+HK was only -1F on block.) Ken’s F+HK in AE2012 = -4F on block -1 on hit. USF4 it’s 0F on block -1 on hit

MP Shoryuken floats opponent higher on the second hit

Just checked, MP SRK only first hit was adjusted. street11 is right it has to do with the first hit launching and then 2nd hit being while they are already in the air and thus higher up. You are hitting the 2nd hit at a different position than before. It’s not really an “unlisted change” just an “unexpected side effect”

[Malvadisco]

a little late i know sorry

http://youtu.be/1eYhphUT9iQ

[Eternal]

FOR FUCKS SAKE

Check the main post, I added something in bold that is too stupid for me to iterate.

[TheFreshPrince]

Ayyy those secret, unintentional Sagat buffs tho.

Capcom has fucked up, normalized, and lazified so many things for this update.

Eternal, you and I could create a better, more bug free version than an actual game company can. Let that sit for a minute.