Added a cammy change in Ultra console release that I missed previously due to the weird ways that they changed hitstun/hitstop. Cammy’s crHP now only gets +3F on counterhit, previously her crHP got +4F on counterhit.
it still links into ultra on counter hit, and ultra starts up in 10 frames, while cr.hp is +6 regularly.
+9F according to 4 attempts at a jump frame test comparison. Doesn’t link to ultra in my tests vs every character I tested (about a dozen). James Chen said it only works vs specific characters due to not hitting first frame.
Files show a 2F reduction in frame advantage on counterhit while only a 1F reduction on regular hit.
Everything points to you being incorrect on this except in rare cases. Did you actually test it or just go by a video you saw?
Giving you another chance to not be a dbag about this because accuracy is important and I don’t want to be wrong and hey, you’re taking some time to actually post (and MAYBE have tested it?) so I’ll be nice. Plus I figure you got a warning + jailed so maybe you’ve calmed down. Not trying to be rude by bringing that up, just my thought process behind actually reading your post this time despite having you on ignore and having so much bad history with you.
@Eternal after playing poison only from day 1 digital upgrade to about two weeks ago, I decided to look for a sub character. I messed around and liked how cammy played (a shame I never picked her up in 2012 now that I selected that version in edition select in training mode to feel the difference after playing her in ultra the first time). When watching a video about ultra cammy tech, it showed that CH cr.hp into u1 still worked. I went into training and selected ryu, turned on counter hit and auto block. Point blank CH cr.hp into u1 on standing ryu linked for 9 hits and 484 damage. Just did it now to reaffirm. Linked it on ryu, cammy, Cody, poison, blanka and the video shows sagat.
Maybe it has something to do with u1? If it’s getting 9 frames then maybe something else is at play because it does link.
Here’s the video.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=q19s9PJfIt8
Also you might want to look at my other post a little further up about poisons HK DP
Did it tool assisted this time, videos still showing +9F but can link to ultra on everyone I tested via tool assistance. Did some other tests, made crHP cause negative pushback and then removed the first active frame from closeHK (making it 10F startup) CH crHP wouldn’t link. Removed the first 3F active of EX Spiral Arrow (making it 10F startup) wouldn’t link even with tool assistance.
Tried punishing -9F moves such as Yun’s HP Lunge and Guy’s DF+HK with reversal Ultra 1, was blocked. My best guess is that due to the way that they changed HITSTOP on crHP there is some weird frame rounding going on when entering the super freeze for ultra 1.
Previously:
crHP had 22F hitstun and 12F hitstop (the period of time where characters are frozen.) on counterhit she had 26F hitstun and 12F hitstop.
NOW:
crHP has 20F hitstun and 11F hitstop but the opponent still has 12F hitstop, this means that Cammy starts recovering 1F before the opponent starts reeling. This results in only a 1F loss of frame advantage even though she lost 2F hitstun. On counterhit she has 23F hitstun and 11F hitstop with opponent having 12F. That should be only +3F additional frame advantage over regular while her old one had +4F.
Experimentation and modification shows this to be true. Videos show her as +9F, changing moves to be 10F startup can’t combo after crHP on counterhit. EXCEPT for Ultra 1 which CAN combo. The most likely explanation is frame rounding due to super freeze, something that has been known to allow moves to link in situations they shouldn’t, such as Gouken doing F+MP and linking to his Super. Or Ryu able to punish SOME -2F moves both not others using his super.
In regards to Poison’s DP that is correct, how it’s something that would be mentioned on the wiki rather than in here.
@eternal I guess I wasn’t wrong then. I’d appreciate you not jumping to conclusions so fast and pointing the finger. When I post about something it’s because I’ve done it in the game. And playing on console I have to be much more precise with my execution too, I don’t have tool assistance or macros or hit box viewers and the such.
Is it known the charge time for Bison’s U1 is only 40f? Thought that change was only for U2. Also, there seems to be some kind of buffer window for U1 and U2 during his forward dash (at least from EX FA), you can input it before the dash is done and it will still come out, unlike super or normals.
I’m using Double Ultra when testing this btw. Seems to be the same with full U1 though.
The U1 change was NOT known. I had totally missed that. Actually his Super was reduced to 40F too!
In regards to the buffer thing, I don’t see anything other than the fact his Super/U1/U2 charge is retained for 28F while his Specials charge is retained for only 12F
I’m pushing the button itself before the dash is over. If I only press LP for example, in the exact same script, nothing comes out, even if I delay it 1 frame to compensate for negative edge. The same thing happens if I press LK, which should result in super. the total frames between the dash being initiated and the Ultra being initiated is like 16 frames, when it should take 21 frames to act after dashing out of focus (IIRC).
Got me, other than the reversal cancel script which allows for the input to be saved for any special move/super/ultra/focus for the last 6-7F of his dash but still doesn’t actually occur until the interrupt frame on the dash there is nothing I can see. If it works for ultra it should work for super or specials. The focus attack speeds / cancel data are identical for Focus and EX Focus and red focus and they all use the same dash cancel list.
It’s possible I messed up with the super, the only thing I’m sure of is that it works with U1 and U2 but not normals.
As I said, there is a buffer window of ~6-7F where it will save your input and execute it on the earliest frame possible once the dash recovers but only moves that are on the “reversal” cancel list. That refers to specials, supers, focus attack, and ultras
Is this Bison specific or something everyone has?
Everyone has it to an extent but it varies character to character how long. It’s what causes the [+X] or [-X] issue for dashes.
For example Juri has a forward dash of 19F. Starting on frame 13F the “reversal” cancel script kicks in and any move on the reversal cancel list that is input between 13F and 17F will be executed on 17F which is why her dash is listed as 19[-2].
Characters who don’t have that [-X] or [+X] just means that their “reversal” cancel occurs on the proper frame when the dash actually recovers.
For example: Cody’s forward dash has the reversal cancel list kick in on 15-18F. Any special/super/ultra/focus input during that 3F window will occur on 18F when the dash recovers. Actually it accepts inputs until 22F but anything input between 18-22F occurs after the dash can be interrupted by any input.
I see, thanks for the info.
Made a video with some new combos you can do with this:
It was known fairly early, but it’s nice to get confirmation of the charge time. A few people in the Bison forums had performed some informal testing:
Funny thing is that I was playing around with EX SSD to U1 when USFIV was released, but I didn’t realize it wasn’t possible in earlier versions >.<
This is more of a glitch, but when you set counterhit on in training mode, you can counterhit Decapre out of the recovery of her U1, which should never be possible. Actually found a training mode only combo as a result.
Bump.
Zangief’s light green hand is -7, I don’t think this was in the patch notes? Edit: -7 on block, still -2 on hit