Pushback and forward movement are unchanged. The difference is that EX Hands puts the opponent into hitstop for 1F longer than before. Previously both Honda and opponent were in hitstop for 4F each hit. Now Honda is in hitstop 4F and opponent for 5F. This means that Honda gets to move 1F before the opponent’s pushback takes effect allowing him to gain more ground.
The reason for this was just because of how Capcom handled a bunch of characters frame advantage changes was to adjust hitstop instead of hitstun. Capcom wanted Honda to be +5F after EX HHS. Instead of adjusting hitstun or reducing the recovery for EX HHS they simply made it so Honda was in hitstop less time than the opponent. This creates some oddities. They did similar changes for things like the frame advantage change to Blanka’s crMK or Cody’s crMK. The change wasn’t done specifically for the reason of making Honda able to get closer, it was done because that was simply the main method Capcom was employing to change frame advantage for A LOT of moves and it had unintended side effects.
has bison’s ex psycho crusher have a smaller gap to be thrown in start up? maybe its just me, but i have found that i don’t throw it on start up nearly as often as i used to.
Gouken’s Denjin Hadoken in Ultra W deals inconsistent stun when you fully charge it. It goes as low as 520 and as high as 660. Can someone figure out what’s going on here?
Well some more specifics into the situations it’s causing 660 would have been nice… found it on my own though when you report things in the future it’s a good idea to be more thorough.
Anyways this is more a bug than an unlisted change. Seems to do with how far you are from the opponent when you release but then there are odd monkey wrenches confusing me further. If you release a level 5 and then dash forward and get closer before the fireball hits then you get 695 stun.
Here is the thing for sure, at point blank all hits do 65stun. Max range first 4hits do 65 last 4 do 100stun.
Dash up after max range it’s 65x3 100x5 (695)
Charge + spin stick to make fireball move faster it’s 65x5 100x3 (590)
I’m not sure the REASON for the bug yet but I can replicate it easily.
For Akuma I’ve noticed cr.mk has a small amount of forward momentum. For example, cr. mkxx lk tatsu will hit from further out than if you used a cr. mp, so it’s not only caused by the increased hitbox size of lk tatsu. On most of the cast the increased distance is about .5-1 small training room squares. This is also something that’s never been noted in older versions, in fact tatsu often whiffs after cr.mk at just about anything more than point blank.
Different moves have different cancel positions. These aren’t things that are changeable AFAIK. They’ve never done it before and instead have used other ways to get around the cancel position for different moves by making new versions of moves when canceled from specific normals (such as Gouken’s farMP - MP Palm or chun li’s closeHP - HK SBK). The cancel position is coded into the actual animation file itself.
No such change was made to Akuma’s LK Tatsu, I think it’s entirely from the hitbox changes interacting differently than you’re used to. Nothing in the character files indicates any change.
Akuma’s c.mk xx lk tatsu has always been the preferred go-to against Blanka due to his wonky hitbox and the fact that c.mk shifted Akuma forward a little.
Keep in mind that lk tatsu also received a slight extension to the hitbox forward in Ultra, which is definitely noticeable. So c.mk combined with the extended reach of lk tatsu would amplify this further still.
I understand what you’re saying but my experience is different. Since I don’t own the game I had to wait to do this test again:
Select (whatever version) Dictator vs AE2012 Honda
Recorded Honda neutral jumping, holding down forward and mashing LP+MP from round start distance.
Honda’s 6th hit of EX hands hit dictator, 7th whiffed because Dictator is too far away. Tried many times, every time with the same result.
Went back to character select, picked same Dictator(of course), Ultra Honda now.
Played the recording. Honda’s 6th AND 7th hit now hit Dictator, Honda’s now able to continue the combo.
Repeated same test with other timings, got same result.
Switched players, now picked Honda as first character, Dictator as dummy, repeated the test, same results.
As a long time Honda main at first I had just a feeling that he was closer to his opponents after ex hands(or that he was not getting as further away as he should) but after doing some testing I’m positive that’s the case.
That still all applies with changed hitstop. holding down + forward means you are moving forward due to how EX Hands works as you know. When characters are stuck in hitstop nobody moves, you can’t move forward and the opponent doesn’t get pushed back more. It doesn’t matter who is player 1 and who is player 2, it doesn’t matter if it’s a recording or not. Hit stop doesn’t prevent you from inputting things. Actually it’s designed to help because without it it’s very difficult to input a cancel it’s a feature of the attack itself. Because Honda is in hitstop for 1F less he can move forward before pushback starts taking place thus he gets closer.
It’s like this
Old version
[1F] Honda+Bison stuck in place unable to do anything
[2F] Honda+Bison stuck in place unable to do anything
[3F] Honda+Bison stuck in place unable to do anything
[4F] Honda+Bison stuck in place unable to do anything
[5F] Honda+Bison stuck in place unable to do anything
[6F] Honda and Bison are no longer stuck in hitstop. Bison’s pushback starts moving him backwards on this frame. Honda is able to start moving forwards again using EX HHS. Both characters start moving at the same time. The time between hits of HHS starts counting down now.
New version
[1F] Honda+Bison stuck in place unable to do anything
[2F] Honda+Bison stuck in place unable to do anything
[3F] Honda+Bison stuck in place unable to do anything
[4F] Honda+Bison stuck in place unable to do anything
[5F] Bison is stuck in place unable to do anything. Honda is able to move forward using EX HHS, in addition the startup of the next hit of EX HHS starts now
[6F] Bison starts moving backwards from getting hit by EX HHS. Honda has already moved forward for 1F. The startup of the next hit of EX HHS has already gone on for 1F
Each time Honda hits he gets like a little head start to move forward and get closer to Bison. As long as you are holding Down+Forward you’ll move. The recording is only reading your inputs and repeating them. If you were holding forward in one recording it’s going to keep holding forward at the same time you play it with another character.
I fully understand what you’re saying(the frame stuff, the hitstop/startup/recovery stuff and the direction stuff), I just thought the “one less frame of hitstop” change only was applied to the last hit(which would give Honda the +5 instead of the +4). I had no idea it was aplied to all 7 hits of EX hands. Makes sense because when it fully hits he does end up closer to the opponents than before and the code for ex hands has not being changed in any other way. Thanks!
The Zangief change about EX-GH traveling as far on whiff as on hit I can confirm. It was a real anoying thing in AE and v.2012 that when u whiffed ur EX-Hand, you would be put backwards, making neutraljump guessing better if you where to do SPD, LPGH --> EX-GH as the NJ would beat it out.
Updated to cross off the stuff changed in the upcoming Oct 15th update. Once Dantarion runs the new files through the USF4 Dif checker I’ll go through each file to find any other unlisted changes.
Waiting for Dantarion to run the files through UltraDif so I don’t have to look at every single damn line to find changes. However something interesting: there is a Poison file included in the latest update. No mention of Poison in the change log.
not an unlisted CHANGE per se, but information that has never been listed.
Poison’s HK DP actual does have STRIKE INVINCIBILITY from frames 1-11. Projectiles and throws will still beat it from frame 1 but a strike will not from frames 1-11.
ommited frames 3-8 of start up just to keep the post concise considering the size and quality of each image. From what i understand you can see the green hurtboxes are replaced with red boxes that represent strike invincibility, and her yellow boxes are vulnerable to throws and projectiles.
