Vism dodge made it incredibly hard to keep him out though. It also meant that outside of meaties you had to pressure with true block strings or lows or he dodges. Plus he could cancel the dodge into Vism mode at any point.
Also what do you mean by “in exchange for that”? Cody actually did good damage in A3 even WITHOUT the Vism. Not fantastic mind you, but he could combo multiple high damage attacks. crHP - HP Criminal Upper - sHP - Badstone did a healthy chunk, about 1/3rd of most characters health even in Vism where the damage is lower and if you flipped out Cody could REALLY put the hurt on you. LP - LP - LK - MK Ruffian also did solid damage. Remeber, Alpha 3 had NO link combos. Cody could do solid juggle combos and his crHP was an amazing buffer and anti air. Also his badstone was the highest damage fireball in the game outside of charging sakura’s to max or a super.
Xism Cody hit like a truck and his super was basically another type of Vism.
Q - Why didn’t Capcom tell us about DWU and Red focus before they requested input on balance from the community?
A - Because Capcom had no intention of using implementing these changes at the time.
My guess is they took community suggestions, seen that removing unblockables was the #1 request by far and proceeded to try and remove unblockables. When they realized they couldn’t they came up with a backup plan - DWU. However through any meager testing they did somebody realized that DWU just made the game 1000% more defensive so they created red focus to add more offense.
It shows in character balance that they added DWU as an after though.
Almost every character that has to get in has been buffed, and all the characters that needs to keep people out have been nerfed. That’s why you end up with Yun being buffed and Sagat being nerfed.
Decapre definitely slips a little after the update.
Charge times might seem to be pretty small but this A) hurts damage output and B) hurts her ability to check jumping. This really impacts divekick matchups where being able to check neutral jumps so well with dp and u2 while staying semi mobile were important.
This makes some juggle combos impossible, lowers max damage from some hit confirm or punish situations, and also impacts her AA game.
It also creates the situation with ground u2 coming out instead of AA leaving you with hesitation because you might be punished for doing the right input in the wrong window.
Ground version U2 can be input with Back - forward - back - forward. It doesn’t require a down charge at all. The input for AA U2 is the “pretzel” but ground doesn’t require it. I’m not having any trouble with that.
Do this for AA and you wont have trouble ever:
1-3-1-7
For grounded
1-3-1-3 (or 4-3-4-3)
Problem solved.
Anyways, @fat was right this discussion should be moved to the general thread not tier thread.
Yes I’ll explain why: Contrary to popular belief her footsies are actually pretty damn good, almost great. She has very few losing matchups, and the ones she does lose aren’t worse than 6.5-3.5, while she has a whole bunch of even and advantageous matchups. She has very safe pressure that leads into ambiguous jump ins if it hits. Vortex is still pretty good thanks to her having a super jump and kunai. Solid damage from her bnbs that can lead into vortex, above average damage in meterless punishes, well above average damage on corner punishes with 1 bar. Slow overhead but is + on block and has very little recovery. Great low avoidance move with 6HK that leads into combos on CH. Slide that is great for getting around projectiles and low profiling things. Pretty good U2 that is decently fast, can be comboed into from almost anything thanks to SJC, can be used on reaction to projectiles from mid-range. High damage punish with U1. Invincible reversal for 1 bar that can be made safer with FADC for 2 more bars.
While she isn’t as easy to use or outright dominating as Yun is, I feel that she is a better and more well rounded character who can still vortex opponents to a certain extent.
Why are chun and guile below oni? Also sagat should be moved a little higher(cmon man 2nd place at evo) and decapre should be dropped off the chart lol.
I don’t think Sagat is any better than mid-tier in this version, I just think it shows how good of a player Bonchan really is to make it to 2nd place at EVO.
After the recent update, yeah I feel Decapre has dropped off a bit since she lost a lot of damage and can’t anti air as good anymore.
Guile, Oni, and Chun are almost exactly at the same level I feel, but I think Oni is just slightly better than those two at the moment.
I also agree with you on ibuki, she was a beast in AE and went relatively unaffected in ultra. We need some guile and chun mains in here to speak on this but I “think” that they have more favorable matchups/evens then oni does. Im saying this based on how I think the buffs and system changes affected each character, chun and guile cant be vortexed to death anymore and they received a lot of buffs and not that many nerfs(just guiles 50 health nerf sticks in my mind.)
While onis “buffs” get outweighed by his “nerfs” and he didn’t benefit nearly as much from system changes as chun and guile. Take the akuma matchup I was reading about here, chun got the matchup shift to swing in her favor with the nerfs to akuma and the system changes. While Oni vs akuma stayed the same, oni couldn’t be vortext in the same way as chun because his dp blew up divekick pressure. All the akuma pressure came from wiff palm left or right into meaty frame traps or throws, and that god damn stand hk. Thinking about it now it might be even more in favor of akuma because he has more tools to fight oni in the neutral game(easier acess to more damaging combos, close mk forcing stand, far hp giving easier u2 combos). (yeah you can punish jump back fireballs with f+hp red focus ultra but good akumas werent beating you in the air they were staying on the ground.)
Lets take onis most advantaged matchup, vs zangief, it was pretty easy to keep zangief out in ae, just stock up on super while spamming f+hp and f+hk and stand mk and wait for gief to focus in and demon his ass. Now its a even matchup due to the buffs gief got to green hand, he can punish f+hp on block.
The buffs T.hawk got swung it in his favor too. Now that t.hawk isnt totally reliant on condor dives to get in he can now just approach from the ground quicker and safer, you cant rely on anti airing t.hawk or punishing his blocked dives to win you the round anymore.
Or the sagat matchup, back in ae it was pretty free after the discovery of the unblockables on sagat. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8ZdvjFTWUc one touch into the corner or throw into the corner pretty much got you the round. Now that unblocks are gone its a more even fight.
Like i cant think of a single matchup that got swung in onis favor from ae to ultra.
edit-Keep in mind im not coming at you from the oni is shit angle, thats already been discussed. Just onis tier placement in comparison to chun and guile. If chun and guile were above oni in tier lists in ae(i think they were right? not sure) and if anything they have moved up due to more matches being in favor of them, and oni at best staying exactly where he is at worst hes moved down, I just didnt understand how guile and chun are lower then him on the tier list, thats all.
While Yun is considered God Tier and Akuma still good, neither of them made it into top 8, and I believe people are overhyping them due to Red Focus and Akuma’s toolset.