You have a good point and I think we all
have that thought in the back of our head.
However, 2012 update was free and they realistically didn’t need to do that since pretty much everyone who was going to buy AE already had it by the time it was announced.
Sometimes I can’t tell this thread apart from the general USF4 thread 
Anyways, I think there is ONE reason for them to update: Capcom Pro Tour is likely making them money (otherwise they wouldn’t keep doing it given they are a publicly traded company that has to report to shareholders.)
This means they want to try and keep competitors at least somewhat happy.
Good point, I forgot about the Pro Tour, and it would make sense to release the patch around November since they have already expressed interest in one, and it would give the competitors about a month to adjust just like EVO.
Another balance update scares the hell out of me. We all know how this works by now, about a 70/30 split on nerfs/buffs.
Yeah but that is what the community wants…actually 70/30 might be too generous. Just look at the capcom unity request threads. Akuma’s had like more posts than all other characters combined, and the majority of discussion was nerfs. Some stuff doesn’t make sense, but when a large amt of fans cried loud and hard about this or that Capcom listened. Just a few examples…
-Everyone cries about Akuma sweep to U1- capcom removes it
-Everyone cries about Dhalsim 2 hit mk after seeing random hugo lose to world class sim-Capcom removes it
-Everyone cries about Gen super to ultra damage following EVO 2013-Capcom removes it, and throws in some more nerfs for good measure
-Akuma jump back fireball-ditto
-Adon jaguar kicks-ditto
-Fei rekkas-ditto
-Elena and Rolento are annoying as fuck-Capcom mega nerfs both
Notice how the initial changes a year ago looked a lot more exciting than what the final console changes ended up being? Why do you think that is? Why did lazy ass Capcom do more work? Cause much of the playerbase cried whenever some other character got something that they were uncomfortable with.
Here is another thing to consider. The vast majority of people who ask for buffs will be people who play that character. However everyone who doesn’t play the character asks for nerfs. So you got the playerbase of one as opposed to the playerbase of 43 (now). On top of that nerf requests are usually in agreement with each other while buff requests are much more varied.
I just don’t understand the mentality. Since the beginning of fighting games, people always wanted their own character to be stronger, that’s fine. However with the SF4 fanbase the majority seem much more concerned with making other characters weaker. The fanbase must change, if they want Capcom to change. Capcom is giving what the fans want more or less.
If there is indeed another patch I predict Rose nerfs, Yun nerfs, Evil Ryu nerfs, whoever wins Capcom cup that character will be nerfed as well.
There will be no meaningful Yun nerfs. He’s a clear Capcom favorite. Just like Akuma, though they eventually managed to actually nerf him after four tries.
Fixed.
What do you say about some users(On SRK, CU, EH , nah let´s say everywhere), who thought that Capcom needs to be really careful(Another word was thoughtful) with their buffs for lower tier characters? I am pretty sure that Capcom was a bit influenced by this.
Anyway the rest of post is so true.
There are two aspects to it. First, the balance requests have become some sort of prisonner’s dilemma: everyone would benefit of limiting to ask buffs for the mains but in practice, behaving like a gentleman declining to ask for other characters nerfs will only get you a worse main while the scrubs that were whining about your character get away with it. So, even if you don’t want nerfs for anybody, you have to get involved in the nerf requests to make sure your main doesn’t get dragged down more than others. Asking for mass nerfs is the rational thing to do if Capcom does listen to feedback without any kind of filtering. That’s a reason why I want them to state clearly that they are only making buffs in this round, as it would discourage asking for other characters nerfs at all.
That said, I disagree Capcom is truly listening to feedback. For all those nerfs that admitedly fans asked for, there were a lot of buff requests that they just plain ignored despite being asked a lot:
-Ryu joudan kick. Ignored.
-Making Hakan’s standing HP an overhead. Ignored.
-Cody’s walkspeed. None of it.
-Every buff request for Dan or Dee Jay. Nothing.
I think Capcom makes their minds on balance adjustments regardless of feedback and only keeps with the facade so they can pretend that’s what people asked without having to make any further explanation of their decisions. No matter what you do, there’s always one portion of the playerbase that is going to agree with them so they can always say they were listening to feedback. “Nerfs to Ryu hadoken? We listened to the feedback (of the antishoto crowd). Further buffs to shoryuken? We listened to the feedback (of the bazillion ryu players)”
Making st hp(8f startup, 2hit move with 120dmg) an overhead is a really bad idea. Why? Overheads in USF4 have not only slower startup frames(At least 2x of Hakan´s ST HP, many over 20f startup, less dmg ) , also st hp is one of his main anti airs, pokes and armor breakers.
If you want this move as an overhead, then you need to make this normal slower, which would actually nerf his footsie game at the same time and make it useless as an AA. Many people were complaining, how bad Hakan´s AA options are and yet you want to nerf it lol.
He doesn´t need an overhead welp.
Even if I like what you’ve posted,I can remember how you well pleased many nerfs,including the Akuma ones.
Personally I didn’t asked for nerfs to nobody, I’ve asked for a system engine improvement,especially the remove of unblockables and a general ground offense improvement for all the cast. The majority of players ask for a more footsies-oriented game and Capcom give them what they want. Who cares if half (if not more) of the cast can’t stand a chance in a footsies battle against characters like Rose. Those who can don’t really give a fuck about footsies ( Yun,Viper), but half of this stuff is what people asked. Everyone knows what’s gonna happen the week where players can talk about Akuma’s changes and now the character is butchered. They are too many characters in SF4 and most of them don’t play the same game. That’s all.
Yeah, you can’t really pin all the blame on us players who are just trying to be competitive with our characters.
Capcom is definitely at least partially to blame thanks to their design philosophy of “nerf first, maybe buff later”. Most of us are just playing it safe by asking for nerfs to competing characters, because we already know that Capcom will nerf our own characters regardless.
Perhaps if they showed that they can reliably an consistently give actual good and useful buffs to EVERY character, then I think the requests for nerfs would drastically increase decrease.
Perfect example was earlier in the thread when I suggested that Abel should get a buff to fst.mp by making it special cancellable. Highland was quick to say it would be too good of a buff. Now we all know that it wouldn’t be too good of a buff necessarily, but he was probably just afraid that a change like that would be too good, since he knew that Sagat wouldn’t get a buff good enough to combat it.
Basically it’s all a game of preemptive actions to help assure that our own mains will remain competitive.
Now people ask for what Akuma,Cammy and Fei players asked before,make all the cast stronger like the top tiers. With USF4 Capcom just changed who’s on top. Players are satisfied? No.
Hey I didn’t make that request, it was heavily mentioned in Hakan forums. I put it there as an example of Capcom don’t listening to all requests equally and as an argument against Capcom making nerfs because they take player feedback at heart.
But while we’re on topic, why making a move slower has to be implicit within turning it into an overhead? why do all the overheads have to be abismally slow in first place? At 14F startup or more, it is quite easy to see them coming and react accordingly: you have to use them very sparingly and do some heavy conditioning on the opponent to catch them, the risk of being stuffed with a jab or a reversal is high while the reward on hit is close to nothing. Overheads could be universally trimmed of 6-7 startup frames and nothing would be broken while offense would get better.
Because people already cry a metric shit ton about anything.
It sucks that things are this way, but at this point the xbl/psn scrubs rule the changes in this game, and that sucks dick. Actual people that go to tournaments are pretty much the bottom of the barrel at this point and people that just play casually, never stop jumping or pressing buttons and have no defence are the ones that get heard, we pretty much have to deal with it at this point.
Can’t wait for Vanilla SF5, which will last for about 8 months before a patch rolls out, but at least those 8 months will have strong characters.
Actually cammy and fei are still top 2-3, and yun switched places with akuma.
My Abel example wasnt just to combat Sagat, I’m a great believer that when it comes to buffs, its better to buff up parts in that characters arctype rather than fill in areas that you think that character lacks because then character selection becomes blurred. They lack it for a reason.
Abel is by design , supposed to lack great mid range footsies because he mauls people once he gets going. A 5 frame, safe, good damage cancel normal from stand block that leads to KD or Ultra is slightly too good( IMO) to put it mildly.
I actually think changes like what Yun, viper , ibuki receive are not bad, its just that the cast don’t receive these things equal. Basically capcom were banking on DWU being a thing and fucked half the characters in the process.
I guess the difference is though, whether you agree with me or not, I wouldn’t go be a shit cunt and bitch about it on a feedback, I’d just deal with it if you got it. I only went in my two main character threads and asked for minor buffs ( ultra fix, st.lk ), anyone who asked to nerf another character ( apart from EX bullshit strike, or Sakuras j.hp) should be hung up by the balls.
Edit: I have finally found a word that gets blanked. I should get leveled up for that.
Double edit: word accepted , level down.
I think those users are a very negative influence on balance. Yes Capcom seems very afraid to give big buffs, and that is partly due to these users. Really careful usually translates to very minor buffs that hardly help a character if at all. This paranoia of buffs that will supposedly ‘break the game’ is fairly ridiculous especially considering how careful Capcom has been due to the players.
Again were these buffs as universally asked for as the nerfs? The Joudan kick was, however that would mean adding a new animation (though he has it in SFXT). The other ones I don’t know. Ken walkspeed was asked for by just about everyone, so he got it. However many times buff requests varied a lot.
As for the prisoner mentality, or ‘my character is going to get nerfed so I got to make sure other characters do also’ well isn’t it obvious that this type of thinking is probably the root cause? Is it the chicken or the egg? Someone tell me who has been playing since vanilla. Was everyone during that time only asking for buffs for their own characters or was there a ton of complaining and nerf requests?
Look at ST (yes I know people hate this game being brought up) even the weakest characters are scary as hell. Why don’t people want that for SF4? I always hear ‘this move is annoying, or stupid ‘insert character’ spam, etc’ SF4 is a fighting game, things aren’t supposed to always be a pleasant relaxing stroll in the park. You are supposed to be uncomfortable at times, you can’t always have the advantage or be on even ground.
The first part of your statement is why the second part will never happen. If everyone is so outraged when there are big buffs (like 2 hit sim mk), and the cries of nerfs are a million times louder than any for buffs…how is Capcom who is balancing to keep this game going as long as possible by pleasing its fanbase going to just go ham and megabuff every character? I’d love that, I’ve said that before…go for broke. Fan base has to do a complete 180 if that is to ever have a chance of happening however.
Not many people complained in Vanilla because a good portion had stupid shit, that’s exactly what most of us have been trying to get back.
Also the game is over analysed now, I don’t think people can just have fun anymore.
People did cry salt about sagat though lol
Fair enough, while I don’t necessarily think it would be too good, I respect that you at least stated why you dislike the idea. I honestly think very few things would be too good as long as every character receives buffs of equal measure, and giving Abel a great footsie tool doesn’t seem like a bad idea to me.
On to the whole asking for nerfs situation, yeah I honestly asked for very few nerfs at all. Off the top of my head the only nerfs I REALLY WANTED were cannon strike getting a pushbox around the leg so no more bullshit impossible to see crossups, EX strike getting a bigger hurtbox, and having something done to Akumas EX air hado. None of that happened though, and while I don’t really think Akuma’s EX air hado is too good, the way it functions just annoys the fuck outta me and I just think it’s bullshit tbh.
But yeah, the peeps who were asking for a multitude of nerfs to characters that didn’t even deserve it, they need to stop playing the game or at least get the fuck off the the feedback forums.