USF4 Ken Match-up Thread: Updating 1st Post Edition!

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
341

I always thought the guile match up was awful … I use U1 Cos I don’t really think U2 is a threat to charge characters … ALL I can say abut the match up in addition to what others Have " is Be patient "… And Work hard for a knock down .
This a Video Of a match I recently played against a European top Guile player . Please bare in Mind That this is only one match and that I Wasn’t able to Download the player So I just played As safe as I could. This is a Ranked Match … Hope it Helps

[media=youtube]i6aYLva1wZQ[/media]

342

Getthefruit showed me the sickest kill scenario I have ever seen vs guile. He basically kills guile in 1wrong guess (round2 is almost guaranteed for ken). Starting with a Kara throw.

He exclusively uses U2 in this mu. Said its still one of Kens worst matchups though.

343

i preffer ultra mainly because it makes ex air tatsu a huge threat and it negates his ultra 2 wakeup chip

@ 1:16 i would not have went with the crossup tatsu but kept him in the corner instead nice match though i hope you did not get any ragemail because when i 4-0’d his guile in endless he ragequit and send me some i just removed him from my friendlist afterwards

i personally think Adon Bison ibuki cammy and akuma are kens worst matchups especially adon

344

@takamura

Yeah The salt was everywhere … @ 1:16 I Felt I’d Go For it To land Another Combo and Knock Him Down … But I ended up resetting the situation … ur right … and after this match up I Came up with a mix up against guile for that same situation …
After landing a Hp srk , back dash then kara throw ( If he quick rises its a meaty kara throw ) If he does not quick rise… jump forward Hp for an unblock able…

345

As someone who also uses Cammy, I’m more inclined to say that Ken’s bad match ups are not even as close to bad as some of hers so we really shouldn’t complain :stuck_out_tongue:

Guile heavily depends on one knockdown, but the better he is the harder it will be. One thing I have found about players using characters with bad wake up is, they can block much better than players with decent reversals.

346

sorry but Cammy is the cheapest bitch in sf universe … real talk

347

I got my ass handed to me by Ibuki at a post-Christmas hookup.

I didn’t realize until I looked at the first post in this thread that Ibuki’s kunai follow-up after her EX DP move was focus or dash punishable. Her ambigous kunai setups aren’t too bad if you time your block or focus right on your wakeup, it’s the j. lk and j. mk variations that will give you trouble. Step kick gets stuffed by her c. mp, which cancels into neck-breaker which leads to bad times.

348

is rose plus frames after her drill? the frame data says she isnt but is it spacing dependent maybe? i get counterhit all day by her. after her slide, drills, generally whenever i feel like she shouldn’t be in plus frames, i try to break the momentum with my 4frame cr mk, but i get counter hit all the time. i haven’t played in a while, so i may be a bit off with my timings, but i remember having this problem some time ago as well. do i just never press buttons against her?

really, this match is one of my hardest matchups. i have the same problem with guile, but i understand the matchup at least, and he’s easier to mix up on wakeup imo…

edit: i read the matchup for rose in the op. seems you can’t press buttons after a well spaced spiral and slide… good to know.

349

Yes the Rose match up is hard for Ken, I have trouble with her too. Rose was the first reason why I decided to get more theoretical about SSF4. Learning frame data and stuff. I was having too much trouble with her slide and spiral so I decided to improve my knowledge about the game. The thing you said is true TeeJay, if she spaces it well, she is safe, and maybe have some advantage if the spiral or her slide is made correctly. You really have to watch carefully during the fight her spacing. If she spaces it right she can counter you with frame traps, EX spiral, or do a safe BD. Even if you do a kara HP SRK I think she can escapes with BD after a safe blocked spiral. Not sure. But if you see her doing the spiral wrong or maybe drop her BNB with ex spiral, very common with beginners, you can punish at least with c.MK or maybe c.HP.

Those well spaced moves and her pokes are the things that make this match so hard for Ken. Her s.MK is an amazing move against shotos, she avoids c.MK with a fast and unthrowable move. Very useful. Good Roses pokes a lot, pushing Ken far, and are always on point with c.HP for anti air. The way Ken should win this match is very similar to Guile’s, you should get a knockdown and mix her up with no mistakes. Punish her BDs with c.HK OS, and do safe jumps on her to get her reversals stuffed. In comparison to Guile I think she doesnt control space so perfect as Guile, Ken has more opportunities to get in, since her fireball is not useful as Guile’s. Other thing very important people forget about is her throw range, it seems like she has a automatic kara thow, very very good range for a normal throw.

Other important thing, I recomend that you look at her patterns during a offensive string. Good Roses know that a string finished with spiral or fireball is not safe, can be SRKed, specially by Ken, so its very important to watch how she is finishing her strings. If you anticipate a spiral or a fireball with a fierce SRK, she will be more honest during her string and respect you more.

Finally, dont do too much fireballs, she can fill her meter with her reflect tools, dont abuse of air tatsu, can be stuffed by her c.HP, try to do your best to get damage and knockdowns mainly while she doesnt have meter cause her wake up is very limited, she has an amazing BD but it can be OSed with c.HK, be careful when she has full bars, she can make an easy big damage/comeback with that, throw her a lot, and do your best to push her to the corner.

Peace

350

It’s not terrible vs guile, just the tempo most of us are used to playing and setting. We must wait against guile, but I hate that American hero almost as much as I hate Vega >>

ヾ(＠⌒ー⌒＠)ノ

351

I’d recommend just blocking sonic booms for 20 seconds just to realise how small the chip damage really is. Really helped me with my patience in this match up…

Peace,

G.

352

Does anyone know if a well spaced hayate from Makoto is safe on block? I verse this Makoto player before and he was able to block my punish

353

According to the frame data on SRK’s wiki, the frame disadvantage on block decreases the longer the move is charged. If Makoto throws out a light Hayate without charge, it’s -8 on block, so you have a tight window to catch her with a low forward. If you let her charge all the way (she won’t unless she’s trolling hard), you’re looking at -2 on block. Medium level 1 is -7, heavy level 1 is -6, so the windows are even tighter.

EX Hayate is -4 on block. During endgame situations where she has U1 stocked, do not press a button if you block the EX, unless you want to get by the Gllty special.

354

I thought Ken’s fierce DP could punish all hayate’s on block…

Could be wrong though.

Peace,

G.

355

yeah your right, Ken’s fierce DP can punish all hayate’s on block but according to what Chachi said, it can be safe

356

I’m leery about leaving my feet when attempting to punish a well-spaced Hayate. If you can kara DP consistently, then by all means go for it.

Now that I think about it, Gllty special works if you try to throw or punish with a 4f or slower poke after blocked EX Hayate. If I know it’s going to happen, I’m probably blocking anyway.

357

anyone got tips to beat Zangief?

358

My thoughts about Zangief:

  • You should play very lame. Stay far from him and use LP fireball for space control. Whatch his jump, it has a good range and if he has ultra 2 dont do SRK, try to anti air him with normals or just block.
  • Dont play footsies with him, he has better normals, use MP and c.MP with moderation, just to catch bad green hands.
  • Never jump at him, his lariat has good priority, comes out very fast, its an easy input, and will give trouble if hits you.
  • Try your best to avoid knockdowns. Zangief wins if he knocks you down, its hard to get him out, and he can dizzy you very fast just with a few mistakes.
  • Respect his wake up and blocking. Dont abuse of meaty setups unless you really think the player you are facing will not wake up SPD you. Dont do too much inputs in your blockstring, try to do just 2 jabs, and walk back, jump back or just BD. Zangief players mashes SPD and lariat sometimes, and SPD is the most fast move in the game (it can gets the startup of your moves), does good damage, and its a momentum changer.
  • Try not to finish your combos with tatsus. The 50-50 situation against Zang its not a good thing, unless you are really confortable in the match. Try to use only the EX one. Dont do BD or SRK after the tatsus if he has ultra 2. Better eat a SPD or throw than a full ultra 2.
  • Watch the range of his c.HK and s.HK. Very good normals. After s.HK wiffed he can SPD you. Its a very common “get in” tool. The same thing works with his green hand. Learn the spacing of those moves.
  • All his green hand versions are punishable on block and on hit (except EX, its +1 on hit). Dont go too fancy if you block it, just do a raw fierce SRK, unless you are really confident. Zang is -7 at least when you block his green hands, so choose wisely your punishment.
  • Kara HP SRK can help you zoning him out, use if you are consistent with it.
  • Kara fireball is a useful ground tool too.
  • Walk and throw him sometimes. Its a rare situation that will catch the most Zangief players by surprise.
  • Forget about cross up. Unless you know a real good setup. I wouldn’t go for cross ups in this match.
  • Run and be patient, Zang has a very high stamina and stun.
  • Use ultra 1, I dont see any use for ultra 2 in this match.
  • Watch the michael tan vs zangitan or michael tan vs itabashi. He plays very well these matches.

Peace

359

gd shit … ultra 2 tho better imo

360

Yep… U2 to punish green hand.