Urien vs Dudley: help needed

Classic Fighting Games Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike
1

I am having trouble against a Dudley player at the arcades. He is very good at changing the timing of his jump in fierce which makes them harder to parry and also Uriens c.fierce is a bit unreliable because it does not always beat the jumping fierce.

Once he has got this in he can combo like crazy to do mad damage. This is why I am losing the match, whats the best way to play against a rush down dudley? How do I keep him away until I have my aegis bars ready? Should I just rush down as well without any turtle game? What moves should I use most often against him?

I would be very greatful if someone could answer some of these questions and help me out because this guy played Dudley like a beast and perfected me in a tournament and it was very annoying especially knowing that Urien wins the matchup.

2

for starters, I do not agree with everyone that Urien wins the matchup against Dudley. I don’t want to hear about RX nor Fujiwara. I give the matchup 5-5 with a slight advantage for Dudley (so it could even be 6-4 Dudley), because Dudley gains super quicker than Urien, and because Dudley’s normals are better than Urien’s. Everything else, in a very general manner, is about even.

Your best anti-air against Dudley is a standing MP. Lowest risk. It’s quick enough so that even if Dudley air-parries it, he can’t really retaliate. If he parries your MP, you can block, or parry his retaliation, or cancel an ex-headbutt if you have it charged.

You can try to rush down against him, but I doubt that would work very well because Dudley has better options in close. Urien’s ticket to big damage is through his low fierce. But how are you gonna get it in against Dudley?

-Through a parry? -> too dangerous. Miss your parry and you can eat a big combo. Or, certain chains are too quick to let you low FP (like Dudley’s towards MK, MK, I think).
-Through randomness? -> Dudley can punish if he blocks your low FP

It’s too risky. Dudley has more weapons than Urien in a close combat. Dudley has overhead -> super, short short -> super, links to super. Urien can’t compete against that. So your best chance is to play defensively and keep that fucker away until you have super, and can corner him.

The typical match will start at midscreen at long range (obviously). Dudley will usually try to close in to do the big damage. Urien’s standing MP, low MK, standing FP and crouching RK will charge meter while keeping Dudley away. If you screw up, you’ll eat one big combo (30-40% life) and plus you’re in the corner. Good luck getting out.
Instead, try to eventually corner him with crush -> aegis, or JP sphere -> aegis. And do your best to keep him in the corner! That’s where your advantage is.

Good luck.

3

ok man thanks for the help, much appreciated.

btw the dudley player is Dukus! He got to the final of the last two RB’s and his dud is becoming beastly, we uriens cannot let this happen!!!:smiley: :smiley:

I will try everything you said.

4

I disagree. I think you’re greatly underestimating how difficult it is for Dudley to close distance against Urien.

Dudley gains super quicker than Urien, but he has no way to land it if Urien is patient, so that’s a moot point. Urien’s normals are way better than Dudley’s in that match, crouching forward alone shuts down pretty much all of Dudley’s moves because he has no reliable low poke. Late jumping roundhouse is very hard to get around too. Dudley loses to all the characters he cannot jump in against and Urien is one of them -to be honest he should never even be in a position where he can jump in. Dudley’s wake-up options are useless because of Reflectors and his main threat, parry into EX MGB combo, is useless in this match. Urien’s ticket to damage in this match is Tackle XX Aegis Reflector into random mix-up/unblockable, keep away to get meter, repeat x n. He doesn’t need anything else to win. Sure, IF you screw up, you’ll eat big damage and get cornered, but that goes for everyone against Dudley, even Chun-Li. You shouldn’t screw up since you have all the tools to keep him out. Urien has a clear momentum advantage in that he doesn’t need to get in to deal damage, while Dudley has to take risks and get in quickly or he loses. If Dudley gets in, he wins the round, but it’s horribly hard to get close for him. That match is easily 6 - 4 in Urien’s favor IMO, if not more.

5

Re: Re: Urien vs Dudley: help needed

Can you explain why Dudley’s parry into EX MGB combo is useless in this matchup? I can’t see why it’s any less powerful on Urien than other characters.

No, I do not agree that Urien’s normals are way better than Dudley’s. Dudley dominates close range, wins on midrange, and loses on long range.

Yes, Urien’s crouching forward is a very effective poke against Dudley (note that down, Raju), but can you imagine a match where Urien wins only on crouching forwards and standing MPs? I can’t. In almost every round, either the Dudley gets inside, or Urien goes inside willingly. Dudley will get his chances.

Tackle x Aegis Reflector isn’t bad, but I’m uncomfortable with your expression “repeat x n”. The damage potential of a tackle x Aegis Reflector -> high/low attack/throw is very low. The main idea with that combo is used to push the opponent into the corner. Once he’s in the corner, how are you gonna keep him in there? That’s right, you need another aegis. Meaning that you need TWO bars now. And Urien has two bars like…once a match.

Ok, you don’t have to keep him in the corner after tackle x Aegis Reflector. You’re right, you can run away and charge bar. But you just did minimal damage on Dudley with that combo, you potentially just cornered him… why are you gonna run away to charge bar? Maybe I’m impatient, but I try to do everything possible to keep my opponent in the corner.

Mmm…no. “charge bar, tackle x aegis, runaway” repeated x n isn’t accurate. Urien doesn’t work like that. At least I don’t play Urien like that.

When you talk about doing mixup/unblockables, that does raise an interesting question. In the red Urien (messatsu yarou?) casual matches, he does a jab headbutt, into a jab reflector, MK kneedrop -> unblockable setup.
Isn’t that setup escapable though? You can quickrise after getting hit by the headbutt. But I did not see an opponent quickrise ONCE in those matches!?!? Confused.

6

Re: Re: Re: Urien vs Dudley: help needed

Urien can pretty much fight without giving you anything to parry except unpunishable stuff. What is Dudley going to parry at mid-range if you’re just whiffing long pokes? Maybe cr. forward or jumping roundhouse at best? He can’t really retaliate with st. roundhouse after that, which is why I said parry into EX MGB counter is almost useless in that match.

Dudley doesn’t dominate on mid-range for me, that’s probably where we disagree the most and that explains why we have a different view on this match-up. Dudley’s main mid-range pokes are st. roundhouse and st. fierce, none of which work against Urien’s cr. forward. Urien on the other hand has tools to beat all of Dudley’s pokes.

You don’t really need to keep Dudley in the corner IMO, as long as you’re not into your corner yourself and have the lead you’ll be fine because it’s very hard for him to get in. The damage is minimal indeed, but it’s free and safe so why take any risks? I wouldn’t recommend playing like that against all the characters (like Ken or the twins), but since it’s so difficult for Dudley to get in why not let him do all the work? He cannot turtle and win that match. Of course, you CAN always keep the pressure on Dudley in his corner if you want to finish him off quickly, but that’s more risky because you’re giving him an opportunity to land some damage. Maybe I’m just cheap, but I would never go inside willingly when I can get free damage and my opponent can’t.

You can charge another meter rather quickly after Tackle XX Aegis (especially if it connects… and since Dudley is trying to get in there are always chances it will) because the mixups already gives you some back. It’s not like Urien is in a rush anyway, he’s got the lead and a fool-proof way of dealing damage. Dudley on the other hand really wants to get in and is bound to get frustrated and make mistakes soon.

I’ll check that yarou setup, but it does sounds escapable.

7

I’ve seen that setup with a headbutt to get on the other side, but that probably doesn’t matter. You can quick-rise, but the super freeze happens right before you hit the ground. This makes it really hard to time your quick-rise, because you’ve probably already tapped down. You have to do it right after the freeze to get out, but it’s not easy.

8

This is what people at my arcade call a dance off. Cuz that’s basically what it comes down to. You guys dancing back and forth trying to establish your space. Urien has slight advantage here. But it’s still not a given freebie keeping Dudley out. Urien’s s.FP is good, but get’s beat out during start up, so be careful. His standing strong makes contact even if Dudley is ducking. Abuse that to keep them guessing if they want to high/low parry, if Dudley has established medium range on you. D.mk is good, but be careful. Dudley’s FP and forward FP will smack you good if you miss. Dudley inside, you lose. So don’t let him get there. If he does, keep your composure. Dudley beasts on Urien players up close, the same way Alex palyers do. You lose most of your life just trying to get away. Honestly, I’m not going to go all theory fighter and tell you how to escape. Me personally, I just sit there, turtle, keep an eye out for throws (stay tech ready), pick my moment. Do not panic

Honestly, in this fight, you dance right, Dudley will have to jump if he wants to get inside. This is where Urien’s s.strong comes in. It’s your main tool.

When Dudley jumps, I usually end up doing one of the following… (be advised, I haven’t checked the priority of his jab. I have had it beat out Dudleys attacks often. It’s best used when they realize they are not going to get in on Uriens s.strong, and have to parry) Strong However, is VERY reliable.

  1. jab > strong xx EX REFLECTOR
    … If the jab hits, the strong will wiff, but you will recover way before they touch the ground.

… If the jab is parried, buffer an EX REFLECTOR off the strong. If they are in deep, the EX REF combos off of it. Tackle them as they bounce off of it. (you may be given a chance for an extra hit after that, I need to check my juggle counts again.) If you had two meters when they jumped, do a kneedrop instead of a tackle(experiment, I forget which one) and set a reflector as soon as you land. Headbutt over their body as the black screen (from the super) ends, and break their guard with f+mk. They can not roll, because the reflector (strong xx EX REF) was the last thing to hit them before they hit the ground. After the jab is parried, the worse that can happen is they parry the strong and the EX reflector. Try to dash under and hit them from the other side with a jumping FP/RH. Relatively safe.

  1. strong xx FP/MP SPHERE

… Be careful. I have been hit between the strong and the sphere before. It’s always been a “even” trade. I eat the attack, they eat my sphere. so I stay charging, and do my tackle juggles as I recover. Your opponent will usually say something like “wtf” or “gay” :lol: Sometimes, I try to delay the buffering of the sphere at late as possible. That way, if my strong is parried, I can cancel the sphere into an EX REFLECTOR. :evil:

  1. strong xx EX REFLECTOR
    … This is a good one to mixup with strong xx sphere. When buffered to the EX REF, they have to input the parry command BEFORE the black screen, calling for two quick taps. “taptap!!.” Where as a strong buffer to sphere, there is a delay, and requires a different timing. “tap…tap.” Expecting a strong xx fireball will make you eat a strong xx EX reflector and vice versa.

  2. jab, EX REFLECTOR
    … Be careful. Jab doesn’t have the awesome priority that strong does. But I have seen jab beat shit out repeatedly before. Anyway, if it’s parried, then do an EX REF. Notice, it’s not buffered. Do the EX REF as you recover fromt the parried jab.

  3. jab, d+FP
    … Be careful. Jab doesn’t have the awesome priority that strong does. But I have seen jab beat shit out repeatedly before. ONLY use this at far range. If you do this too close, they will parry the jab, and for some reason, go over your head. Your d+FP will completely miss, you eat a combo. Even when it looks like they are landing in front of you, a parried jab sends them over your head. Experiment to find the range. This one is great when mixed up with the previous one. Completely different timings.

  4. jab, d+FP xx EX REFLECTOR
    … Same as above, (remember, range is the key) except you cancel the first hit of d+FP to an EX REF. This one is so dirty. Once again, even if they guess right, that you would do jab, d+FP, the timing is different for the second hit of the d+FP, versus the buffered EX REF. They must parry the first hit and quickly parry again before the black screen. “taptap!!.” Where as the d+FP completed, is “tap…tap.” What’s great is, even if the first hit of d.FP connects, the buffered EX REF will combo. Do a tackle for more damage. If you had two meters, do the knee drop instead, set up reflector, headbutt over, guard break, combo. :evil:

Urien has many options to keep Dudley guessing twice about jumping. Be creative, and keep them guessing. Mix up your pokes, keep him out (easier said than done, I know) and show him jumping is a no no. Urien, on paper and ranking charts, wins this match up.

The EX REF is just evil. You can dash under to the other side as they are stuck in the air trying to parry it, immediately do FP SPHERE xx EX REFLECTOR, jumping FP :lol: Good luck parrying that.

And of course, I’m no Urien master. Just speaking off of what I’ve experienced. Save the theory fighter shit for someone else. :slight_smile:

Jive Out!