and a LOT less jumping around, I hate Akuma mirrors with all the air fireballs and demon flips going on the screen lol.
So according to Tokido, Yun blows Akuma up lol.
Like all dive kick characters (Rufus included if it weren’t for the ex messiah glitch).
Akuma’s health is shit and his normals don’t have enough active frames to stop the dive kick pressure
Sooo…
what do you guys consider the best vortex’s options against Guile?
After forward throw, whiff S.HK, HK DF kick. Makes Flash Kick whiff, free combo.
How on earth can i punish Gens off the wall gimmicks?
He has like a trillion different types of kicks and i simply dont know what to do against them.
Tips?
neutral jump hp
Maybe my timing was off but i was getting beat out by it. Im talking about that kick he has where he goes from p2 side to p1 side (im p1 side) to the wall and then that divekick thing.
Maybe my timing was off but i was getting beat out by it. Im talking about that kick he has where he goes from p2 side to p1 side (im p1 side) to the wall and then that divekick thing.
Same thing happened here, i was hit out of it many times depending on the type of kick. Although as of now i’m using neutral hp and jump forward hp as a manner to stop it, but like we said, lots of times it trades.
Gonna hit the lab a little to test some simple answers.
There isn’t a universal answer other than “block”.
If you wanna counter it you gotta take some risks, and the less risky option that will work most of the times is nj.hp.
With srk the risk of whiffing and eating an ultra is too high and nj.hp has a good success at stuffing the wall dive clean…sometimes you’ll trade, which isn’t too bad, and sometimes you’ll straight up lose. I consider blocking the best option, but there’s not much you can do after if he spaced the wall dive properly.
The gen matchup shouldn’t give you too many problems anyways, it’s quite heavily in akuma’s favour.
In general it isn’t really giving me trouble. I just don’t know like 80% of his moves, so it’s really weird. Nobody plays him, so when you face someone who has given a little more attention to the character than the rest of the world, it can be annoying.
So what do you think Akuma should be doing against the old man? It seems wake-up games and safe palms are one of our best options.
for one he has a giant hitbox and you can pressure him with fs.hk all day…you can do blockstrings like c.lp c.lp walk up c.mp fs.hk and after the fs hk (if he blocks it) you can mix it up…like once you can do c.mp fishing for a CH to combo into sweep, then next time you can walk slightly backwards and then sweep…or you can neutral jump and do ex air fb as you’re coming down…well let’s say that he’s pretty free to pressure.
He has a great backdash, so just watch out for that. His footsies are good enough, but akuma is superior
for one he has a giant hitbox and you can pressure him with fs.hk all day…you can do blockstrings like c.lp c.lp walk up c.mp fs.hk and after the fs hk (if he blocks it) you can mix it up…like once you can do c.mp fishing for a CH to combo into sweep, then next time you can walk slightly backwards and then sweep…or you can neutral jump and do ex air fb as you’re coming down…well let’s say that he’s pretty free to pressure.
He has a great backdash, so just watch out for that. His footsies are good enough, but akuma is superior
VS Evil Ryu:
- Evil Ryu is like a more offensive version of Ryu. Due to his combo possibilities (and damage output), he wants to get in
- He bleeds. Our bnbs rip him a new asshole pretty quickly
- His dashes aren’t near as satan-like as they appear. They have a laggy recovery.
- His teleport travels significantly shorter than Akuma’s. The recovery is quite pronounced also
- I feel Akuma has superior footsies
- I failed all lk tatsu > sweep attempts. I’m confident in saying this is not possible
- Walk speed is essentially identical to ours
- I’m pretty certain his redball does more damage than ours, however it seems much the same in terms of recovery and startup
- His regular fireballs are a tad faster than Ryu’s
- His j.hk is actually pretty damn good
- His c.hk sucks
- Ryu’s hitbox strikes me as larger than Ryu’s and slightly smaller than Akuma’s
- His jump seems kinda floaty(?)
- His c.mp is very good
- He has some insanely effective kara grabs. Think a little less than Ken/Vega
- Lacks many of the links that Ryu benefits from
I strongly feel Akuma is superior in every way. Evil Ryu is an interesting (and fun) character to use, but I just don’t feel his abilities and short-comings are weighted as well as Akuma. Akuma does everything he does and more. One could argue that Ryu can combo into his Ultras, but then again Akuma has a wealth of extra options and specials (+vortex) to compensate for this. Don’t forget that Akuma can combo into U2 in AE much easier now. I also feel that Ryu is a better character than Evil Ryu.
VS Oni:
- Oni’s damage output isn’t particularly impressive
- His dashing slash special takes some getting used to (he passes through you and attacks from the other side, forcing you to block backwards) which is interesting. He can mix it up with the light version, which forces you to block forwards as usual
- His aerial dashes made me reconsider committing to an SRK to aa him. Instead I used fs.hp and c.hp to deal with his jump-ins lest I get baited out
- Oni cannot fadc out of a blocked srk
- Oni can be tatsu sweeped
- He has a pretty fat hit-box. Think Gouken-size
- Oni feels very light on his feet. Its hard to describe. He’s a ‘largish’ character, but he doesn’t seem to pack much weight behind the way he moves. he’s also pretty nimble on his feet, though not as quick as Akuma
- He has quite an array of regular and command normals. I’m keen to see how these can be used as they have many properties, including knockdowns, fireball nullifying, etc
Oni strikes me as quite a specialised character. He borrows aspects from shotos, Gouken and also introduces some unique attributes. I do not consider him a shoto clone for these reasons. In time I’m sure a style for him will emerge, but right now people are still plodding around with him without a clear idea as to how he can be used effectively. I was surprised at just how average his damage output was considering how brutal he looks, sounds and how his attacks connect. Kinda odd. I’m sure there’s a reason for this that will become clear soon. He seems to be centered around hit and run and baiting attacks. His footsies seem kinda lack-luster
His lack of a tele combined with the inability to FADC blocked srk makes tatsu > sweep particularly effective against him, but I can’t help but think that Oni has something up his sleeve that hasn’t been discovered yet. Time will tell I guess. Oh, and his dashes are quite good. Very fast and again, they give the impression and feel that he’s very light on his feet. Wait until you get to control this guy, its a strange feeling.
Oh and lastly - Yun. Again. I am still having real difficulty in this match-up. I’m chalking him up as officially Akuma’s most difficult match-up in Arcade Edition. I try to approach my matches VS Yun players with the intention to try new things and to make an effort to figure him out, but I’m not coming up with much yet. I really want a console release so I can test stuff. Tokido is opting to counter-pick with Fei, which I guess only figures, though I personally want to try and get a handle on this guy. I didn’t have a great deal of luck with s.lp and lk today VS dive kicks.
If you guys have any questions as Akuma players specific to Evil Ryu and Akuma I’ll try and answer them. In short though, I didn’t find either of these guys overwhelming nor in any way superior to Akuma. At least not at this stage. As a long time Akuma player, neither of these new characters really demonstrated abilities that might coax me to use them over Akuma. To be honest, its actually kinda cool how different they both are from Akuma. There’s definitely no blurring of abilities happening between all three.
Oh, one more thing. I think I’ve managed to get a handle on the new cross-up tatsu. In short, your setups into cross-up tatsu remain the same, I just feel that they need to be tighter. Tatsu needs to be executed slightly later so as to negate that slightly extended floaty thing they have going on in AE. Its a tiny change (likely the byproduct of them altering escape tatsu) that requires a small amount of allowance in timing.
Sorry if this is a bit rambly. I just typed a few things up while fresh in my head after a session during my lunch break.
Thanks a lot for the info Gamogo, I was waiting for some solid details vs the new demons.
About E.Ryu, I too thought Akuma > Ryu > E.Ryu, I see him being a lot better if he had 900+ health, but he has the same health as Akuma and I honeslty think Akuma has better tools than E.Ryu, at least from what we’ve seen so far.
About E.Ryu:
- I guess his dashes are similar to Fei’s then, they look fast but in reality they’re not that good.
- Great news to hear his teleports travel distance are shorter than Akuma, they should be a lot easier to punish with walkup > sweep on reaction.
- About his Kara, I assumed he had the same kara range as Akuma since they basically have the same far standing fierce (in terms of Kara range, Ken’s 4, Vega’s 3 and & Akuma’s 2 by counting the small lines in training mode, could his be 2.5 or even 3 for some reason if it felt to be better than Akuma’s?
- Any chance to check if the croner unblockable works on him too? It should be possible to counter teleports with OS tatsu or DF if the unblockable works.
About Oni:
- Great news that we can tatsu > sweep him, so good to hear this after being disappointed that it didn’t work on the other new 3 AE characters.
- Any chance you checked any safejump setups against his DPs? They seem weird and slow but we can never be sure by looks, it would be excellent news for Akuma if his DPs are 5f+
- You mentioned he has a fat hitbox, far roundhouse has a good chance of connecting twice on him even from far away (that’s if it’s even possible)?
About Yun:
- You guys are freaking me out with those Yun info :P, Tokido said it’s Akuma’s worst matchup too, this might end up being Akuma’s first 3:7 matchup =(, hope a new strategy will be found that’s truly effective against Yun.
- I’ve seen Air sweep Yun than jump-in on him with Ryu, this usually safejumps 4f reversals, but he lost to EX upkicks, could this even have 3 frame startup or maybe Air delayed the jump-in a bit?
Just played like 60 games in a row against one of, if not THE, best Sagat here in Brazil.
Nowhere in HELL this matchup is 6-4 Akuma. As for my opinion is definately 5-5.
Vortexes dont give as much damage and stun as in vanilla and, even though Sagat has also been nerfed in Health and Damage, his output is still greater than Akuma’s. Other than that, many times some combos must be stopped to lead to knockdown instead of damage, and your not going to Vortex a good Sagat every day so this knockdown doesnt lead to massive damage always.
That said, c.mk and buffered ultra on a sweep are one of the main keys against him. After the matches i just saw like 20 matches on youtube and i could see that, taking those awesome matches were the Akumas vortex the Sagats to death and it seems Akuma is a god in this matchup, i mean, when Akuma really have to make the game count, a lot of time is spent right in front of Sagat dodging his fireballs with focuses and punishing his attempts to jump-in or what not. The problem is that he has SOOO many tools to deal with this. He can break focuses with ex tiger shots or tiger knees and many times focuses are going to whiff against his long pokes.
If you can vortex him, you’ll win all day and happy.
If you have to play him, it’ll be a boring fireball war until he gets Ultra 2, then everything changes and you have to go in there and suffer to get the knockdown.
Funny thing is, i was just watching some Bonchan matches agains some top Akumas and i could really see them suffering as i just did, haha.
Found something interesting. Akuma can back dash out many Kunai vortex attempts by Ibuki. I have been in training mode for the last 10 minutes as Ibuki (She is my secondary character) trying to find ways to use the Kunai where Akuma can’t back dash and so far I haven’t been able to do this.
Also another trick is to (in a sense) mash focus and forward dash. Both of this result in two different scenarios which Ibuki has to react differently to.
Now it doesn’t completely release you from her pressure she is still able to follow up with a block string, but it does allow you to avoid the Kunai cross up it most cases and that is the most dangerous part of her Oki game. Also if your timing is off she can punish you for messing up. Still
I also found in some cases you can actually punish her Kunai attempt with a HP SRK depending on when she releases it. And these same situations are normally a frame advantage/combo for her on block/hit. They key is that Akuma has a short back dash compared to most characters. As a result he recovers so fast that he can block any follow up attempt by Ibuki.
There are certain Kunai positions that can not be back dashed out of; however, these positions are not ambiguous.
Ok, some more stuff:
Evil Ryu:
- His axe kick special is only an overhead as an EX
- He can link c.lpx2, fs.lp xx lk axe kick
- fs.mp xx axe kick is a two hit combo
- Axe kick is a great pressure tool and works as a good 50/50 when he has a couple of stocks combined with the threat of a kara grab. Evil Ryu has some interesting ground pressure that advances him in this way. Throw in his forward + mk hop kick and you have some interesting pressure
- Evil Ryu’s ‘symbol’ after raging demon (super) looks much cooler than ours - its animated in a much more detailed way. I hope they nerf this xD
- j.hk, cs.hp xx lk tatsu, lp srk, hp srk is a good combo for E. Ryu in the corner
- I retract what I said about his hp shaku doing more damage. It appears to be very much the same as Akuma’s. Sorry. - Try as I might I still couldn’t tatsu sweep Evil Ryu as Akuma
Australia’s best player (former Akuma player in vanilla, Ryu player in Super) ran Evil Ryu through his paces tonight. It was quite a show. We both agree that normal Ryu is a better character and that Akuma delivers Evil Ryu’s strengths better and with more options. We both agree that Evil Ryu is fun as hell to use though.
Oni:
I played with Oni a LOT more tonight.
- His air baits (dashes) are fun to use. Three options: forward dash, back dash and upwards leap. Really cool tools for confusing and baiting opponents into making ‘unsure’ guesses a lot of the time (but not always). I still feel Oni has some wicked potential to be uncovered.
- Oni’s srks all perform the shin shoryuken animation of Gouken’s, including the lp version. They look really cool. Oddly, you cannot fadc his srks on block. Make 'em count.
- Fighting Oni as Akuma had echoes of Guy/Fuerte for some odd reason. Maybe because he can bait us out with air dashes. Its hard to explain. His delayed (chargeable) fireballs also make jump-ins sketchy sometimes. He is able to quickly charge his regular fireballs to incur two hits. Much faster than Gouken from what I can tell.
- Oni’s tatsu feels odd. The fact that you cannot srk after it (corner maybe?) feels very strange. It pushes opponents away horizontally much like regular Ryu.
- I feel like he can be safe jumped. His srk’s don’t have that immediate feel like say Akuma or Ryu’s do. This was hard to test in the middle of the arcade, as everyone was playing somewhat competitively.
- Oni has an OBSCENE amount of moves. Specials, supers, normals, command normals, variations of Ultra 1 (air, ground, anti-air), supers
- His forward throw lacks setup options, but it does buy you a lot of space. I liken it to Gouken’s forward throw, which is a great way to reset your spacing and re-zone.
- His intro and victory sequence are too fucking cool. The way his eyes follow the opponent during his victory sequence before smashing their head into the ground is badass.
- Oni’s U2 (the monstrous shoryuken) is powerful and looks cool as hell
- Oni recovers VERY fast after throwing his U1 without the complete animation. I did this at near point blank to a downed Rose to net me some chip damage. She was still alive, but couldn’t do shit to me in retaliation.
- Oni’s voice has this very weird reverb effect applied to it
As a character I think he’ll place upper-mid. His wealth of options facilitate a varied style and he has many ways to bait opponents out and perform general trickery. I’d encourage Akuma players to give him some time as like Akuma, he shares a diverse range of abilities that are fun to tinker with. Evil Ryu on the other hand is very much as you would expect, but Oni definitely invokes that ‘hmmm’ feeling when you experience his options. I came away from matches every time thinking about different applications for his various moves.
Yun stuff:
- Dive kick c.mpx2, cs.mp xx srk connects EVEN when we are crouching
- Shoulder charge (among one of his many preferred options if the above is blocked) seems completely safe on block. Its possible we can perform a super, but I didn’t want to blow my meter
Other:
- Fei seems better. His normals have some interesting improvements which I think are beginning to show. This matchup will REALLY demand you withhold your pokes and if you do poke, buffer those demons.
- Ryu:Akuma I feel is 5:5 now whereas previously I felt Ryu had a slight edge. Its interesting cornering Ryu now. The dude has trouble getting out. An effective gameplan VS Ryu is to work him into the corner. You can keep him in there for quite a while. Its . . . strange.
- Adon’s wake-up changes are a welcome addition. I flip palmed his ass onto the ground and could lock his wake-up down like a regular opponent. Good times. He’s still a tricky match for Akuma in my opinion, but its nice to now be able to use our vortex on him. Our resident Adon mainer ('sup Ace!) remarked at being subjected to Akuma’s wake-up bullshit, which he didn’t experience in Super. The hardest part? Telling your brain as an Akuma player that it is actually now possible. I still hesitate. Its very odd.
- Its comical how little Guile builds meter from sonic booms now. Cheers Capcom
- Bison’s lk scissor pressure has been eased somewhat due to the extended push-back. I haven’t figured out our best options in response to this change, but so far I’m liking it
- I wasn’t able to connect the focus crumple > c.mpx3 > lk tatsu > c.hk on Abel that was recently discovered in Super. Odd. I’m chalking this up to me being shit however
Tips for Akuma folks playing Super but not yet AE:
- Use mp srk a LOT more. Get it in your muscle memory. In AE it has fucking satanlike invulnerability
- STOP using air tatsus to escape, period. This is gone in AE and its a habit you REALLY want to shake, trust me. I’ve got it out of my system, but it took a few sessions to do so without thinking. You’ll be surprised how often you’ll casually use this.
- As above, start exercising some patience in the corner. No tele, no tatsu escape. Block and identify escape options. This will pay off when you start playing AE as our best escape option is now removed. Keep in mind what I mentioned about Ryu as this applies somewhat to Akuma. Remember we can teleport, but teles are rarely free.
- Invest some time in becoming more familiar with U2. It is now a lot better and combos easier. The character specific whiffs seem to have been removed due to the extended hitbox cancelling teleport into it invokes
- Get your cross-up tatsu setups down tight. I recommend practicing them on small characters or characters with smaller/weird hitboxes. The reason for this is because of what I mentioned earlier with respect to Akuma’s slightly altered cross-up tatsu properties. It asks of a tiny delay for the old setups to function as consistently as expected. I feel that it translates to a stricter timing requirement.
- Get ready to face a lot of Makotos
Sorry if this stuff is perhaps in the wrong area, but it seems kind of applicable. Sing out if you’d like it moved so I can delete my posts.
<3 Gamago! Thanks for all that awesome info! 
Hey, quick n00b question about the AE teleport. Has there been enough changes to it’s recovery that you can use it offensively. Maybe predict a move and teleport behind and punish?