uhn… it’s just that with zero I don’t have much trouble getting in cause charged shots are so cheap so I can make my way in almost and I can play lame all along u know… since I don’t really have that much trouble getting in most of the time I keep the Jam session, when I py marvel again I will try some weasel shot… who knows… but Jam allows me to make a better space controll, and all =)
and Yeah, Hulk dont go for many sj. heigh but I usually don’t change my assists for coutnerpick and stuff… just cause I am not used to Dante that much yet…
I will see my vids later so I can see whats the stuff u r pointing ._., I am at work right now XD
Against Hulk I feel like you should always try to zone and if they get in then go for offensive tactics. I played against a Hulk player a few months ago. Here’s my matches. Hope this helps and gives you ideas on what to do against a Hulk player.
[media=youtube]seFrPWLyqCM[/media]
Like I was talking with Dark Sonic, I don’t have any problems to zone hulk, but the problem is that a good hulk will start touching zero from the very start and it is really hard to get away to start zoning…
That beein sayd, don’t want to sound like an ass, but that hulk is pretty bad u know =/… couldnt manage to one hit kill and stuff neither to keep good pressure on all the situations he had… but thanks for the intention…
Good Hulk? No such thing. LOL. But if they start touching you, block and then hyper jump and then command dash to get some space. Don’t risk trying to throw him or teching because the amount of damage hulk gets from a throw isn’t all that amazing. Zero will live.
And look at the game you won. You hyper jumped, got some space, and then blew the guy up. The whole thing is the amount of space you can create against Hulk. His mobility is bad, and the whole thing about his team was the Sentinel assist cover to get in. But honestly, what is the purpose of the dog on your team? It just seems like she serves as a combo extension, and I don’t think the dog is needed on a Zero/Dante team. There are plenty of better anchors/assists with equal or more life i.e. Akuma/Sentinel who could both extend your combos and help you get in. If you can get Hulk off of you, he has few options to get back in. I just added Dante to my team, and I’m using Zero/Dante/Akuma, but I’m switching to Zero/Dante/Sentinel after consulting a much better player than myself.
That last game was where Haggar actually beat you. It looked like you were in control of the match until Zero got hit. The only thing I would say about that is, you would have to bait Haggar, stop attacking, and then wait for him to either go away or become vulnerable to restart your offense. Zero’s normals don’t really beat Hulk, so you’d have to be careful if Hulk tries to protect Haggar. I’ve only hit Hulk out of super armor when it was clear that I hit the standing fierce before Hulk did. The good news is, he won’t have that Haggar bailout system in the next game–and he will actually have to learn how to play defense.
o.o… dude… did u really saw my matches? maybe not in those ones cause I did had a match with him in the tournament before… after an Air grab he do one hit kill on zero… from the start of the match…
and the match I won was the match I got some space, but as I told u, a good hulk when he touches you, he will mixup u like she-hulk mostly, and it is always one hit kill as well…
and about Amaterasu, she is what maintain the power of my team. The main problem was that he had haggar so teleport mixups were out of question, but in a normal match, zero/amaterasu and dante/amaterasu are a really strong pressure, in combos and in special in a mixup on a character entering the battlefield.
It’s so funny when u see his team that it is erally strong against my strategies.
Hulk is the only one who touches zero before the match starts and wil lstart mixing up. Even if u super jump, he can grab u in the air, and one hit kill.
if hulk dies, Sentinel can enter mashing Hard Drive, witch kills my most powerful mixup in a character entering the battlefield using zero/ammy
and Haggar simply shuts down all my teleport pressure/mixup… u souldn’t understimate a good hulk really…
As I was saying, If I got some space, then Hulk was almost free, the matchup simply switched drastically… however at that very match start, I can’t find a really good way to start and get some space without beeing target of mixup. The “best” way to start I find to be thorwn in the ground. Since he can’t do a combo after a ground throw then I will survive indeed, however if he cals sentinel, I am on pressure again…mixup situation again, one hit kill again… kinda sad,…
Grounded throws and air throws are different. If you look at the match you won and the last match you played against him, you were literally winning those because you created space. Everyone plays differently, and there are a number of Hulks who play that way simply because Hulk can’t control space at all, but if you eat an air throw, just about every character can kill you. In the next game that luxury will not be there, but since we’re playing MvC3, instant death for Zero is a huge problem.
I think philosophically and in your application, I disagree with your use of the dog functioning as anchor/pressure assist. I understand what you mean about Haggar trumping your assist. I definitely get that, but after Haggar has been used, you can apply the dog pressure, but I didn’t see you do it. That doesn’t mean you don’t do it usually, I just didn’t see it (I’m not trolling). I use the window when someone can’t call out an assist to apply my pressure against Haggar teams.
I don’t think Hulk is a good character, but I do think he can be played well enough, but there’s a general strategy that all Hulks seem to use–and I’ve never really had a problem with Hulk. The problem that I have with that team is Haggar, not Hulk. Hulk gives me no issues whatsoever, it’s the Haggar assist which is the problem for me. I can almost guarantee that you have issues mainly with the Haggar assist and not Hulk as a character.
If he stands close to you, you can generally get out, by a simple push block. With Hulk, a push block can be done on hit. Or you could call out an assist, like an Akuma which would simply free you up. There are certain assists that you have to beware of like Sentinel, Haggar, Wesker, Akuma, Magneto, and Iron Man. I’m sure the list goes on, but that’s all I can think of right now. Akuma is good because of his priority, and I use him as a functioning get off of me assist.
Hulk’s moves also have start up, but there’s a lot of risk in just doing a medium teleport, but that gets you around that as well. If he’s right next to you, that can bail you out, but you have to time it right and you can get thrown out of it on start up.
I also standby my first statement that you were winning the last match until you got hit–which is typical of just about any Zero player. It’s weird, but I think a lot of people would agree with me there. You were controlling the space, patrolling the air, and in places where Hulk had no options to hit you. The thing about this game isn’t that you even made a mistake, you just got hit and that literally won him the game. That’s one of the biggest issues I have with this game, but I still love it.
Trust me, I’m not trolling you, but I’m just saying that the Zero/Hulk match up is clearly in your favor. If you ever see a standing fierce, you don’t push block because the S usually comes and he has recovery. I’m fairly sure it’s special cancelable, but you push block the gamma crush or whatever that move is called. The instant you get space, you get out of it and control the air where hulk has limited mobility and few options. How do you handle other players who start right next you? What options does Hulk have that Wesker doesn’t? Just super armor, but Wesker is far more dangerous and that match up is more even than Zero vs. Hulk.
With Sentinel on entry, every character on your team is a horrible match up for Sentinel. You could try to move into the corner on entry to mess up a player’s inputs, but you can’t rely on that. For the most part, I’ll let Sentinel give me that space. Baiting a hard drive isn’t the end of the world simply because Sentinel has a hard time dealing with Zero and Dante projectile pressure and mobility. I can’t comment on the dog because I don’t play her, but I know that match up is ass for sent.
Sorry if I am beeing rude on my posts, english is not my main language so sometimes I may not translate my real thoughs the way I want to say.
Anyway, I think you are not getting my main problem. That last round jsut happened, haggar was a problem, ok, but that was not the issue, u know, the main problem is Hulk at the start. a pushblock may save you but it is too risky, if u misscall a pushblock u will take a hit and will be dead.
As I told u and shown u, Hulk will always be close to zero at the start and a good one will be mixing up u like hell on that time. Once u get away, I agree with u totally, its Zero game period.
But until that happen, is really dangerous for Zero to do anything.
And after he called Haggar I didnt go for zero/ammy pressure cause since hulk was on “neutral” state, it is too risky to simply get close. Random gamma crush or gamma charge will be game over, jsut like one of my matches that I took a random gamma charge and zero was over…
I know u are not troling, but u are not focussing u know, My problem is not zone out hulk, but get out of hulks range at the start safelly. Maybe I should post the first match I had vs him in Winners, he just got my zero at first second of the match with an air grab and killed him out of the bat. the second round I tryed to tech hit, but is a goddam risky thing to count on…
and Haggar was a the second biggest problem cause if I get away of hulk, haggar will be blocking my options, but thats not all, haggar also shuts down many good ways to start my match with an option select Shipuuga… it would be a good option if he didnt have haggar…
I know ur position, Hulk is not a that great character and all… when I first played agains him I got more wins vs him then the other way, but at the time his airgrab didnt kill and when close his mixups were not that amasing, but at that tournament he played a lot differently.
I agree that seens like the obvius options were ok liek pushblock and stuff, but I can tell you that I never lose to an ordinary hulk and in the whole tournament, with phoenixes, weskers, wolverines… u call it, that team was the hardest to deal with…
You can push block on hit though. People get hit while trying to push block because they’re being psychic and not waiting until they’re actually blocking to push block. The mechanics of the block system is such that push blocks occur once you start blocking.
it’s just that u can frame trap that u know and bait wrong pushblocks… and if u wait for a hit and get throw, u r on the presure cause sentinel will hold u… just analising that team situation the biggest problem is creating the distance, once that is done, mostly I don’t have trouble…
It can be a frame trap if you mash on it. How did he typically open a match? My whole thing is that you can eat the command grab, he won’t kill you and it gives him too much space to cover. If he throws you on the ground, you can deal with that as well. What you can’t deal with is getting hit by an airthrow or a standing fierce. That’s why I just say block and then go for a push block on hit. Don’t just start mashing it, but pick your moments to push block. I’m not trolling at all.
Well, I’ve only played against one good Hulk a few months ago, but the instant I learned Zero he had issues. I’ve never seen that 100 combo off of a command grab, but I do think you shouldn’t worry about it too much. In the next game XF 1 won’t just kill you flat out and Haggar will be gone. I think haggar is the bigger problem simply because his presence eliminates a lot of your options at any given point. I have a feeling you’ll be fine against this dude in the next game. I’m sorry I couldn’t come up with the solution that you want.
wel… I am trying to tell that he is no ordinary Hulk and all… but I still think hulk will be able to 100% zero since it is zero 850k life u.u… I will have some more tournaments, mostly small ones before UMVC3 come out, but I was just trying to figure out what I could done differently, an more safe option u know, to get some space…
Best option does seem to be a super jump and guess whether the tech or block. The ground is dangerous because of the command throw and haggar beats other options.
Depending on how much damage Hulk can get off ground throw/command throw you might just eat the throw.
I play a good Hulk as well and feel your pain. He just realized he can outjump my jump range
guess a sj is not that safe since u can just miss the tech hit or get counter hit throw if u miss the timing… the best option maybe is beeing on the ground and try to really late teck ground throw… even if u get throw… u don’t die, but u will be on mixup situation… kinda sux that the situation at the start is THAT bad… maybe its fair cause if zero gets away, it’s pretty much free for hulk i guess…
he can make a full combo solo using x-factor after a command throw =)
mike “i belive” Ross beat marn with hulk u.u…maybe not that stragne hulk giving some trouble huh? and I think his hulk is worst then comboman’s one =/ (the one that raped me u.u)
