ST is a legendary relic from the past that’s been poorly imitated time after time over a myriad of titles, but never replicated. Guarantee if you were to hop onto GGPO right now, you’d get bodied. You need great execution, reactions and knowledge to hang in ST. If you’re tired of scrub-friendly FG’s with their shitty mechanics, play ST.
Never cared for Virtua Fighter. Not a bad series by any means, but I generally found it boring as hell. Don’t care for the 1-dimensional characters and the fighting system just doesn’t hook me.
You could say that for any game people don’t play much. Is there ANY game people can hop onto right now that they don’t play much and not get bodied by someone who knows what they were doing? What kind of argument is that, seriously?
And don’t pretend that ST doesn’t share some shitty mechanics of its own, variable damage being a very horrid one.
It’s a legendary game, but too many people overstate how flawless it is.
Street Fighter Alpha 3 is the best Street Fighter game. Why?
THE SOUND EFFECTS.
Go to 2:02
Straight from a kung-fu movie. SFA3 counter-Hit fierce is the greatest sound in fighting game history (doubly-so as a post-KO hit).
Variable damage isn’t really that big a deal in Super Turbo. Neither are the variable input windows.
@Zero I think A3 is one of the worst SF games. Sure the sound effects are nice, but the music sucks, the gameplay and pacing is fucked, CC infinites are stupid especially so since you start off the round with a full bar, guard bar while an interesting mechanic is horrible in a game like A3 where your guard can be broken with a CC string that leads to an infinite and overall, I just think it’s a huge step back from A2.
Getting bodied in ST is different than most FG’s. I actually consider it virtual rape. One knockdown can lead to a throw loop, and if the person doesn’t have the execution or knowledge to escape it, then they just lost the match off of one knockdown. I don’t consider many FG’s that unforgiving, outside of maybe getting put into an infinite, but no sane person wants to play an FG with infinites anyway.
I never said ST was flawless. It has problems, but those problems are really small in comparison to modern FG’s.
Actually, low level vs high level a LOT of FGs can be that unforgiving. The only difference in ST is that the kill comes a bit faster due to the extreme damage.
Honestly the only reason I see people praise ST as much anymore is due to the execution requirements involved. That’s it really. But maybe that’s what all games need.
Extreme Damage + High Execution + Good Footsies.
Don’t forget the extremely fast pace at which the game plays. That’s a huge aspect imo, you need to be able to react extremely fast because setups/mixups are going to be coming at you quicker than the majority of other FG’s out there.
I think ST is one of the most unforgiving FG’s around, no other FG I’ve played comes close other than maybe A3/Mahvel games with their infinites, but that’s about all I can think of. More “traditional” SF games like SFIV/CvS2 don’t come close, and the only real scary thing 3S has is Makoto 100% stun combos(not a traditional SF imo, but very few things in that game are scary, whereas just about every ST character can do some ridiculous shit.)
I don’t disagree that ST is super unforgiving, but your earlier argument didn’t really apply. You said that someone who hasn’t played the game much could go into a GGPO room and get bodied which is the case for any FG really.
A better thing to communicate that would be that even high level players can get bodied at any time against players of equal or better skill due to how the game plays.
And honestly, I’m not a big fan of that. I like games that have an ebb and flow to them. A give and take. Now I’m also not the biggest fan of comeback mechanics (terrible ones at least) but dying in 3 seconds isn’t my thing either.
I’m not saying blowouts shouldn’t happen, they have to. Nature of competition. But I prefer to see grinded out games, where each player gave as good as they took and it comes down to the final pixels and final seconds (mostly pixels though, final seconds means someone gets sloppy). ST is so fast paced this never really happens. Other than the neutral game to determine who can get the right read to win outright, it then becomes you blink and someone ends up dead.
I have the upmost respect for the game and what ST has done…but real talk, I don’t like to play it. It’s a great game, legend status…but I personally do not like it. Who knows though, maybe I’m just not a good enough player to truly appreciate the nuance it brings. That I can accept as it would give me motivation to improve as an all around FG player.
FF6 and 9 were the only Final Fantasy games to feature actual characterization beyond paper-thin romance. FF6 is still one of the best games in the series.
Yasunori Mitsuda is a better composer than Nobuo Uematsu.
Alpha 3 is the most complete game of the Alpha series.
The Resident Evil games were never competent survival horror titles, though 1-4 were still leaps and bounds better than 5 and 6.
3rd Strike doesn’t need a re-balancing, it needs to have a smaller roster.
Nintendo is not some paragon of virtue in the gaming industry. It stops by a few times a year- just long enough to drop off a halfway decent first party title- like a bone to what was once its core audience from the days of the cartridge to keep us loyal. Then it goes on to neglect us and make absurd amounts of money off of the casual audience by dumping metric fuck-tons of cute, candy flavored shovel-ware into the market.
Not all of the Team Silent made Silent Hill games were good, and exactly none of the western developed titles in the series have ever been even slightly good.
The Metal Gear series is a bloated, overblown, exposition stuffed exercise in average gameplay.
The Fatal Frame tetralogy is, essentially, Jump Scares: The Game.
The new Dante is a better character than the old Dante.
There’s a lot of give and take in ST. The momentum of the match can change from 1 blocked fireball, one blockstring, one hit, one throw or one knockdown. Two fireball characters can sit there fighting for space for the entire match if that’s what both of the players decide to do, which can be the epitome of a grinded out match, where the only damage taken was chip from an FB.
I do see what you mean, though. I like that the momentum stays in your favor in ST if you score a knockdown, but in other games, there’s such a huge threat of a reversal(since it’s easier to do) or parry/alpha counter/FADC etc, which to me, drastically change the wake-up game to a point where you rarely ever feel safe going for a meaty on wake up. I hate that. It’s definitely easier to swing the momentum in your favor in later games, though.
I say watch some ST matches, you’ll see a lot of changing of momentum between players and characters, and believe it or not, I see a lot of matches that come down to the wire. I say play the game more too, you say you don’t like it, but I think if you spend more time with it, you might change your mind. It’s a different beast of an FG all together, and if you were to give it more time, you just might come to appreciate what it has to offer.
SHUT THE FUCK UP JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!
I don’t care about the branching paths, I just like the pacing, level design, and challenge. My only real issue with the game is that if you don’t make it to a boss with a weapon, it takes way too long to kill them with your pea shooter. While I do find this element of the design questionable, it’s not really a problem for me because most of the bosses are pretty difficult and exciting.
Contra 3 is my favorite. The game is still hype to play through ten years later and a billion playthroughs later.
This is partially true but still a sweeping over generalization. It’s also not really an “unpopular opinion”, many shmup fans feel this way.
Anyway, first off, there are many different design philosophies between different developers, there are many different ways of telegraphing hazards between developers, and there are many different challenge levels that developers of shmups feel appropriate for the experience they are trying to get.
The Gradius series, for example, has almost always had a subtle rng element that promotes reaction. Every popcorn enemy, turret, or anything that shoots those classic little diamond bullets, can fire in several different randomly selected directions, and do so on a random period. They might fire straight at you, or they might fire slightly below you hoping that you’ll run into the bullet while attempting to dodge the straight shot. Point is, you have to react. Furthermore, the difficulty (being based on “rank” as most shmups are) simply increases the likelihood on bullet periods as well as number of bullets fired (among other things, of course). You can see the rng at work if you watch a video of Gradius Rebirth on loop 200, where the suicide barrages spawned by dead enemies fly in all directions with randomized gaps between them.
Another good example is the first windows Touhou (EOSD), which is generally considered one of the least static bullet hell shooters, with patterns that feature heavy rng and require fairly good reflexes to avoid consistently.
That’s just two examples, but lots of shmups aren’t quite static enough that you can call it anywhere near a muscle memory based genre. Even something like Darius, which I consider extremely memorization heavy, has enough dynamic and random elements so that you DO NOT get a 1cc unless you’re playing on your A-Game at all times.
Second, I feel like shmup fans in general don’t really understand “memorization” and that there is a heavy amount of skill in doing it. If you played any shmups back when you were like 7, think back to that. Even if you knew a boss inside and out, you probably died to these bosses millions of time…or at least I did. Fast forward 10 or so years, and now I can pick up those old games and utterly wreck those bosses on my first try in years while barely remembering the patterns.
No matter how much you memorize a pattern, executing your route/plan/pattern still requires skill. I find it incredibly annoying that many people refuse to acknowledge this when discussing “memorization”.
And lastly, if you hate memorization so much, you don’t have to. Believe it or not, you can get better at a game not just through memorization, but by getting better at games in general. There are plenty of bullet hell fans out there who can pick up a new Cave games and 1cc them blind on the first attempt (obviously not something like Bug Princess on Ultra difficulty, but you get the idea), because they’ve played so much bullet hell that their fundamental skill at the genre has increased. Similarly, I 1cc’d Satazius blind on my first attempt, and then went and saw other shmup fans (many bullet hell players, ironically) talking about how the game takes SO MUCH MEMORIZATION and how it took them monthes to get a 1cc.
If the game is telegraphing it’s hazards properly, then you don’t have to memorize. It helps yes, ALL foreknowledge will ALWAYS help, but skill exists in every game and does make a subtle difference.
the F-Zero games are the best racing games I’ve ever played.
fun edit: dmc2 was a good game besides the “story”.
Sonic Adenture 2 hasnt stood the test of time. While back in the day it was great its controls are loose and floaty.
Street fighter Alpha 2 also was the best. Alpha 3 broken.
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The entire Final Fantasy series is crap, FF7 is the most overrated game in the history of gaming. These games are about visual flair and presentation rather than gameplay which is awful. Other than the unrelated Final Fantasy Tactics (created by Ogre battle creator) of course.
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FPS are overrated, not saying all are bad. First person gives a sense of realism and you can aim better of course, however running and dodging are far different than IRL. 3rd person is much better for this.
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Shmups are better than FPS.
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The old mortal kombat games (not 9, haven’t played that) were games that were for those with no skill, since they took no skill to play. Everyone had the same normals, and the universal block game. Without the gore and at that time dynamic realistic graphics, the game would have mega flopped. Still those, such as myself, who aren’t impressed with fan service (gore) or flash knew it was trash from the get go.
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Pokemon is boring as it gets.
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2d is better than 3d.
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Chrono Cross was a good game, despite not being as good as Trigger.
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The ghosts n goblins series is perhaps the most underrated in history.
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doujin fighters are for perverts.
I don’t think “Final Fantasy 7 is over-rated” counts as an unpopular opinion these days lol.
This I would have listed the opposite, saying that both Sonic Adventure games are fantastic and under-rated, as an unpopular opinion lol.
OMG
Thisssssssssss
Stope reading my mind.
Infamous 3 sucks??? Nigga, WHAT!!!
Man, you get too emotionally involved in the smallest arguments.
I said what I said in semi-jest, and here you go truly taking offense. Shit, fuck that shitty ass game. You need a break from the internet.