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most (not all) people who hate on evangelion have only watched the series once, and haven’t done their research. the whole reason that eva creates such a polarizing love/hate reaction is because of the way the story is told, and more importantly, what ISN’T told. eva weaves a mythology and paints a world that is so intriguing and captivating, but basically tells us that we can only look in on it from a foggy window. part of my initial disappointment was that the series had elements and parts that were so interesting, but were never fleshed out completely and to the point that one could say they knew everything about everything. most fans are left to speculation about why this, why that, where this came from, what so and so’s purpose was…so forth and so on. nothing is concrete and nothing is kept within the boundaries of white and black…which is pure genius when you think about how the AT field kept people feeling like themselves, limiting their perception of reality to whatever they wanted to see or were able to see. in terms of references for the sake of references, i don’t think (again, everything feels subjective due to the nature of eva) that was the goal. the story borrows a lot from religion and psychology, but for the most part, rewrites it to further add intrigue to it’s own mythology. take religion for example…it references more than one, but in doing so, takes pieces of each to make it’s own…one that we think we are familiar with since it references actual religions, but then are left wondering more about the one they made up. we are left to our own devices when we want to figure out eva, and no one will ever truly and completely have all the answers. i’ve watched the series about 15 times and it still leaves me with questions…not because there are loose ends, but because i just want to know so much more about the world it has created.
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cowboy bebop can be credited for a few things:
best soundtrack…yokko kanno and the seatbelts are friggin’ awesome
spike is probably the coolest anime character ever
the story is told beautifully, and watching ed and ein go was heart-breaking (especially with ‘call me’ playing in the background) -
i liked berserk up until it started to become urotsukodoji
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mahoromatic was so painful to watch, but for all the right reasons…an absolute MUST WATCH
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gantz voice acting sucks balls. the story is intresting but the characters…i wish they would all just die since they’re so annoying (ironic, huh? since i love eva and even i admit, shinji is such a retard. what teen wouldn’t want to pilot a giant robot and hand around fine-ass asuka?)
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akira put me to sleep…i honestly thought the movie should have ended 30 minutes earlier
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gunparade march is another great surprise. you see pictures of giant robots, but the story is really about the pilots, and in the end, you care more about seeing them interact than you do about giant robot battles and big explosions.
it’s funny that you hate on advent children but show love to pixar. advent children did things that pixar is still trying to catch up to. check the incredibles extras, and you’ll see animators talk about a scene where edna is holding a shirt and puts her finger through a hole. they’ll say how hard it was to create something as simplistic as cloth being draped over something solid. they bragged about how they were able to accomplish such a hard task and how incredibly difficult it was to achieve that sense of realism. really? check out hojo on his wheelchair when he first meets cloud…dude’s face is all about being draped in cloth and the scene is 10 times as long as the scene with edna.
btw, the tifa fight scene was epic, and in no way should she have even come close to losing in dead fantasy
only good shounens are naruto, hxh and fma.
anime has become gay sincen 10 years or so ago.
there are almost no great series or movies coming out, worst is character designs gone down the drainer.
worst of all is people who like this metrosexual bs and shitty animes, its what i believe is the cause of all this bs. why bring out something good if this is sufficient? excactly.
also boti is the best action/samurai manga ive ever had the pleasure of reading.
bleach and op are shit.
eva > that gainax drill new bs anime that my lil bros where so fond of.
ninja scroll still hasnt even remotely been challenged in cinemas when it comes to action animes (shit as far as action “animes” or “movies” go, its still pretty much unchallenged).
also urotsukadoji or however you write was pretty good back in the early 90’s. the first 2 series where good imo. now its all sex in anime or fake ass action. any chance for something like this again (adult with action)? the characters in earlier animes felt way more fleshed out and real compared to the generic fucks we got nowadays.
good animes and movies do come out, very rarely. great ones, even more rare.
also to the guy that said this:If you want to see an actual entertaining collection of fight scenes strung together by thin plot, at least watch something that doesn’t take itself too seriously.
my answer would be real movies by tony yaa. thin plot and stupid story bound together by the best action ever seen in a real life movie.
Wait a minute, you’re comparing the technical achievement of a dude who sits in a wheelchair who does nothing, but with a hood over his head, with actual cloth interaction!?
You sir, don’t know what you’re talking about.
Even though I haven’t really liked or cared about anything Pixar had done after The Incredibles which I think is pretty much the best animated movie, anime ever, comparing them to Advent Children is bullshit. Besides, “Pixar is still trying to catch up to them”? How about Advent Children catch up on Pixar’s storytelling skills?
Anime sucks, unless you’re 15. Ronin said pretty much what I was thinking.
Oh and fuck any manga that starts out good, but somehow turns into Dragonball 1.3 or something.
You know what would be a great technical achievement? If Square leveled up their story telling capabilities to that of Pixar. They can make pretty shit all day, but if it sucks, it sucks.
Also, Eva does blow. Just like specs said, symbolism for symbolism’s sake doesn’t mean ANYTHING.
“Is that a cross? That’s symbolic of christianity!”
“No, it’s just a cross. And despite having things like the Spear of Destiny (We just named it something else) and having shit like Stigmata show up, we don’t really mean anything by it. We were just doing it to do it.”
“Man, that makes NO fucking sense.”
“THAT’S THE POINT! BY NOT HAVING A POINT IT HAS A POINT AND THAT MAKES IT DEEP AND THOUGHT PROVOKING RATHER THAN STUPID!”
anime fans every where squeal in delight because they think they’re onto something deep, when in fact, all those symbols meant nothing.
“OH MAN, EVA IS SO DEEP. AND I KNOW IT’S DEEP SO I’M MUCH BETTER THAN THOSE WHO THINK IT’S GARBAGE! THEY’RE JUST UNENLIGHTENED!”
Yeah.
the pixar folks were saying how hard it was to animate and render cloth interacting with a solid object. edna’s hands and finger through mr. incredible’s suit versus the cloth over hojo’s whole head, it’s movement due to speech, it’s reaction to his movement and the amount of screen time for both events is what i’m comparing.
the the incredibles being your favorite animated movie, maybe your opinion is a little biased, but you are entitled to it, so it’s fine with me. the topic IS unpopular opinions so we’re bound to butt heads.
the problem is that square’s stories are all based off of video games, and remember, we like our video games to come with outlandish fight scenes, incredibly powered bad guys, leveling-up montages that power up our main characters, and a whole slew of other elements that would be considered impossible/unreasonable and otherwise ridiculous. we all saw what happened when an rpg that tried to keep it relatively real (loosely speaking, of course) happened…mother earth was an underground hit but didn’t really make it as big as the FF series or dragon quest series.
symbolism just for the sake of symbolism wasn’t what happened…it was more along the lines of, ‘here’s a widely recognized symbol, let’s use it, but not have it stand for what people know it to stand for…when they research things like the lance of longinus, they’ll see things referenced like hitler and the piercing of christ’s side, but we’ll pick and choose what we want to use…everything else is negligible because we’re sculpting our own mythos here’.
i see what you guys are getting at though, and again, it all comes down to preferences and clearly, different things appeal to us.
UUUUUGH. See? This is why you don’t understand:
Hanging cloth from something has been done for ages. It’s relatively easy(and I do mean relatively) to do, because you’re just putting it on top of something and letting it settle down. This dude was just sitting around and talking, whilst an, again relatively, easy to program simulation takes care of the cloth’s reaction to his movements. His relationship with the cloth never changed, it was just there, settled on top of his head.
Edna, on the other hand, moved her entire hand through a piece of cloth and it had to react perfectly. You can’t physically(to use a very abstract-in-this-context term) animate something like that in CG, because there’s just too much going on so getting the simulation right was probably an absolute nightmare.
The amount of screen time doesn’t mean SHIT. If this was 2d animation, they probably would have made one drawing of Mojo Hojo and just animated the mouth, whereas animating a hand interacting with a piece of clothing would have been a lot more complex and taken more time to do.
In short: you have no idea what you’re talking about, but if you wanna like shit, go right ahead. Roll around in it, suck on it. Blow bubbles with it. End of discussion.
And what you don’t understand is you’re speaking from inexperience and entire subjectivity. Unless you work at pxar or have expeience using 3d animation programs, you’re just venting. If you work in the industry, I’ll eat my words and man up, but if you’re just speaking on your opinion, I would suggest you stop imposing it on me because you are not an authority on anything but your opinion.
We’re cluttering this thread, so if you if you have anything else to vent about, PM me, unless you like speaking only to be heard.
-90% of the drama and arguments between anime fans are pointless
- Moeshit can be entertaining in small doses
-There is nothing wrong with lolis (They must be unpopular seeing as Canada banned them and the UK tried once (don’t think they managed)
-A lot of shounen is bad, but there is some good stuff among the crap
-Blood and tits for the sake of blood and tits doesn’t make a series mature, it just means the kids it appeals to have to jump through more hoops to get it.
-The Umineko anime wasn’t that bad for people who havn’t read the VN
-I’d rank Anime storys in general below books, below visual novels, equal to some games and higher than films and quite a bit of what’s on TV these days.
I agree with basically everything specs said except for this one bit
Come on man. You’d be throwing out too much of the series potent symbolism and dialogue by just choosing to ignore all the very real signs pointing to Spike’s death. Some of this was woven into the series as early as Jupiter Jazz. IE: the star that dies out right before a great warriors death, coinciding the with the very last image in Bebop being a dying star/ Spike’s refusal to ever fully stop living in the past, his implicit goodbyes to the Bebop crew, etc. Leaving him alive would throw all this out in a nod towards our own affection for Spike, not anything actually presented in the show.
2cents on EVA: Things need context in order to be meaningful. Simply namedropping lots of things and trying to steal some of their gravitas without ever meaningfully developing or weaving these elements into your own story is just lazy. It’s like turning in an essay full of amazing quotations. Show your work. EVA has a few interesting ideas, but it’s way too mired in self indulgence to ever really make a good show.
Yes I work in the industry and yes, I have experience in CG too. And lets make one thing clear: you’re the one who brought this up and were talking out of inexperience yourself.
Now let’s get back to whining about how certain things in anime suck and why anime is either all good or all bad, even though it’s being made by different people with different ideas and sensibilities and why the whole notion of grouping anime and manga together like they’re somehow special compared to the animation and comics of the rest of the world is plain stupid.
:rolleyes: I guess I do, thanks.
Steven Blum spits hot fire…and the OG Hokuto No Ken episodes need to make a comeback.
Fantastic. do you feel better?
if you watched 90% of the anime from japan and think it sucks, you must like anime to watch that damn much of it
The wise option would have been to just leave the thread, haha.
Anyway, out of everything I’ve seen, here is what I enjoyed the most:
Cowboy Bebop
Miyazaki films (this stuff is incredible for a number of reasons, but if I had to give one reason it’s just so sincere, there is no bullshit in this mans work)
Vampire Hunter D (I recognize it’s rather weak in a lot of areas, but this is a largely sentimental choice for complicated and girly reasons)
Paranoia Agent
Mushishi
Welcome to the NHK
Full Metal Alchemist
Gundam 0083
That’s called “bad writing.” It’s entirely possible to go too far in telling an interpretive story. Eva has faaaaaaaaaaaar too many plot elements that can only be semi-rationalized with conjecture. There’s no concrete basis with which to interpret that which has been left unanswered in Eva. Everything you say it is, is NOT concretely supported within the source material itself. Ambiguity and symbolism for the sake of ambiguity and symbolism = garbage.
If you want to watch something that THOUGHTFULLY uses ambiguity and symbolism, watch Children of Men, which is, at worst, about 100 times better than Eva’s best moments. For an anime example, try Mushi-shi.
I’d explain how I was talking about Pixar stories being genuinely well-written and thoughtful, but given that you’re talking exclusively about the quality of visuals and whining about someone losing in dead shitty fantasy, I’ll just use this smiley: :rolleyes:
But I don’t want Spike to die. :sad:
I’m a former huge anime fan. Then I grew up.
MOAR:
While I also don’t like the wacky metrosexual look a lot of these anime and video game male leads have, I think you have to look at who they are. Tidus, for instance, might look all prissy, but his mannerisms say otherwise.
Anime fans, like the hardcore convention-attending variety, are, with few exceptions, the dumbest people on Earth. And I thought this even back when I loved anime. Why?
- It’s not okay for an English dub to put the stress on the wrong syllable of a Japanese name (Sa-KUR-a), but it’s perfectly okay for anime to use butchered English (a missile lock being shown as ROCK ON).
- Premise for sitcom sounds stupid… UNTIL THE ANIME FAN FINDS OUT IT’S AN ANIME!
- Every screenwriting book I’ve read says this: DON’T MAKE YOUR CHARACTERS DO SOMETHING FOR NO REASON. Don’t tell this to anime fans, especially when the character in question is a personal favorite.
- Countless other examples, like trying to explain how Superman could kill Sephiroth from orbit to someone who actually thinks Sephiroth would win.
Death Note sucks. …Actually, that’s not entirely fair: Death Note was a great concept squandered by poor writing. What needed more focus: Light’s transition from “scared of but curious about the book’s power” to “irredeemable asshole.” Seriously, I could have written an entire SEASON based on that ALONE, followed by an entire other season of Light’s internal struggle re: killing only criminals vs. killing criminals and anyone who opposes him. There was no need to rush past that and start introducing other Death Notes, other wacky organizations, etc. Needless complexity RUINS things.
If you’re an aspiring writer, don’t try to mimic anime. Seriously.
Tokyo Underground deserved more funding and a better ending. Ditto for Saiyuki, which started strong and dwindled to nothing.
Cowboy Bebop is amazing but Vicious is a stupid villain.
Chromartie High is genuinely clever and does what most Japanese humor doesn’t: leaves the interpretation of the joke to the viewer, instead of having some character freak out and explain it on-screen. This isn’t the fucking Da Vinci Code.
Dr. B and Jesus planned to turn Judas into a Gundam.
DBZ is the best anime of all time. JoJo is a close second.