UMvC3 version 2013: The feedback thread

Classic Fighting Games Ultimate Marvel VS Capcom 3
101

Okay just rethought a few things and I’m killing time.

Rocket Raccoon:
While hovering Tails style give him a 6 button press option to fire his small gun.
Traps air okay
Traps don’t disappear if hit.

MODOK:
Stackable cubes past 9 (make it a consistent multiplier, thusly giving MODOKS a real reason to do Cube combos)
Jamming Bomb can now be done in the air.
Change standing H, and replace with D/F+H.
Reset MODOKS air options after Air HBR
C.M jump cancellable.

NEMESIS:
Decreased recovery on command throw.
Allow hit throw off of Deadly Reach (just frame)
3 hits of armor on special command dash (cancellable into any move).
Faster Armor activation.
Crouching Bazooka
Level 3 is considered an anti air + ground throw.
Hyper Armor on ALL supers.

Wolverine:
Remove his air super.
Give some invincibility back to Berzerker Slash.
Give him a healing super.

Deadpool:
Allow blocking after Ninja Tricks.
Make Level 3 counter into a level 2.
Give new Level 3 super, where he calls out cable who Hyper viper beams.
Leaving Pool free to move.

Hulk:
Taunt increases hulks damage and causes him to heal.
Change gamma wave input motion to qcf.
Hyper Armor while charging, guardbreak and wall bounce properties on fully charged command punch.

Taskmaster:
Increased Damage on Counters.

Akuma:
Raging Demon Air Okay.
Level 3 from 3rd Strike added.

Wesker:
Return to Vanilla Wesker + eye glasses mechanic.

Super Skrull:
Add Level two where he becomes invinsible.

Dorm:
Purification possible in the air.
Purification assist now tracks.
…

Chris:
Horizontal Gun Shots in the air.
U/F grounded gun shot.

Tron:
Vanilla Version. (minus invincible assist)

Haggar:
Armor on violent axe and command throw variants.

Jill:
Level 3 Serum injection throw super. Causes character to fall out. Staying on screen in an OTG state for 20 Marvel seconds. (No assists can be called during this time.) New active character
comes on screen.

Iron Fist:
Dragon Fang is now a stand alone move, done in the air or ground.

Hsien Ko: Better ground and air dash. Air items.

Enuff madness.

102

Game mechanics:

-Remove TACs, or at least make them the way they were in TvC (one tac = 1 use of meter)
-Nerf X-Factor in matters of speed boost, because that’s the more apparent problem.

Better game netcode aswell.

Not really sure about characters though because honestly what I have in mind wouldn’t really affect anything (nerfs to Zero, for example), so I’ll just leave these two here.

103

Sees Chrisis’s Change list.

Sees no change to Task and Wesker’s hypofunctional counters. Sees buff to ForceField to make it comboable.

Welp I hope Capcom does this time so Magneto is cemented number one. ForceField is broken and the only thing making it fair is the meter/xfactor requirement of the move. If he gets to combo off it meterless Magneto would have the best defense in the game free.

I think alot of you guys are going too nuts on the buffs here. Yes there are characters that may deserve slight nerfs like Viper/Vergil/Zero/Morrigan, but some of the buffs listed are ridiculous. Strange with a 8Way Dash would be terrifying, Tridash impact palms would be extremely scary and his combo potential would be broke. I think the majority of characters are simply underexplored before giving buffs out like that. There are characters that deserve buffs like Tron/IF/Hsienko/Phoenix Wright/She Hulk/Nemesis and the like, but anyone mid tier and above should be left alone.

104

Storm:
+Decreased start-up on Vertical Typhoon and Lightning Sphere
+Increased meter build
+Increased hit-box radius of Lightning Storm

Doom:
-Hidden Missles disappear on hit as assist (not on point)
+Molecular Shield has increased durability
+Molecular Shield has hitboxes at the height of his head
+Gun comes out faster
-Decreased time that the opponent is on the ground after Footdive connects.

Wesker:
+Vanilla Rhino Charge

Ironman:
+All three levels of Smart Bombs travel at the same speed with the same damage and hit-stun, but differ in their arc/trajectory (See MvC2)
+Vanilla Air Dash
+Decreased start-up on launcher
+Knee-Dive?

Sentinel:
+1,200,000 health
+Decreased start-up for Flight
+Rocket Punch moves up to full screen
+Faster air normals
-Increased start-up for Rocket Punch

Nemesis:
+Faster start-up on all supers.

Morrigan:
-Nerf Astral Vision

Phoenix:
+625k health
+Dark Phoenix is a level 3 hyper (2, 2+AtkAtk. The hyper goes away if Phoenix is snapped out or tagged out. Hyper lasts for 15 seconds)
-Levels 1, 2, and 3 X-Factor gives 1%, 2%, and 5% bonuses for speed and attack (respectively).

Dormmamu:
+Purification air-ok
+Faster start-up on non-charged Liberation
+Air normals can be cancelled with an airdash

Doctor Strange:
+2-way air dash
+All normals can be cancelled with Illusion

Spiderman:
+Bigger hit-box and more priority for Maximum Spider

Remove TACs

105

Nah…Forcefield still wouldn’t be that good and Viper would still overall would have clearly better defensive options. It would just make it so it’s a useful move at best. The recovery on forcefield would make it extremely risky to use still as opposed to Viper who can jump cancel on frame one of recovery of things like EX seismo and can always immediately cancel focuses into dashes or EX thunder knuckle into EX seismo with meter. That’s pretty much the biggest difference between Magneto and Viper is that Viper has far superior defensive options. Wolverine can just sit and wait for you to do a bad forcefield and then dive or dash in s.L and you’re all fucked unless you super or DHC which kills your meter and most likely won’t kill him.

It would have to get docked down to like only 5 frames or less of recovery before it gets close to broken.

With Strange it would depend on how fast they make his 8 way air dash. They could make it be a really slow 8 way air dash and then it would be far from broken instantly. Especially since impact palm doesn’t even hit overhead. On top of his only low being 9 frame start up and non rapid fire. Plus the shit ground dash.

106

I honestly think TACs are worse than X-Factor due to how much you can get from it, and how hard it can be to counter it.

I know I may not be the only one but just sayin’.

Not to disagree with you Leaf but, nobody ever said his 8 way dash has to be normal cancellable. They could make it like Nova’s airdash.

Also, I really find it difficult to nerf Viper in a way, she’s really good because of her design in the UMvC3 engine.

107

If they were to make forcefield useful. Just make it take an amount of meter. Or for maximum salt make it work like a guilty gear burst and make it a level 2. The game hasnt been creative with meter since COTA. MSH just turned the snazzy powerups into gems instead.
With all the moves capcom characters have I want to see some canon esque shit from Marvel. Healing factors, hulk rage, and the like.

As for strange, rather than a regular 8 way dash make it like the flying old man in samshow 5. A really long funny arching air dash with a ser duration.

108

Magneto
-cr.H OTG
-Needs no nerf, Magneto is fair. Bring everyone else below him to his level.

109

Nerfing Viper would be a tragedy. She’s the Ultimate sandbox character. Every great game has a character like her in it. Leave her alone. In fact, don’t nerf any of the air dash characters.

Only Buffs I ask for is to give Magneto and Iron Man their Vanilla speed back. If they give Magneto a cr. H OTG that wwould more retarded than when they gave Zero his buster cancle. Magneto does not need that bullshit.

110

You know, I had an idea for a Nemesis buff. If he dies with 5 bars, he transitions into his final form (from his level 3). He would get complete hyper armor for the remainder of the super and all of his attacks are replaced with giant tentacle attacks and grabs. Also, give him a perpetual single hit of armor (ala Marvel 2 Sentinel) on point and assist, faster/invincible startup on Biohazard rush, invincible start up and anti-air properties on his level 3, and 1.3 million health. As of now, he doesn’t feel like Nemesis; he feels like a glorified punching bag.

These changes would compliment his status as a battery and make him more viable overall.

111

I would like to see Morrigan in a MvC3 that doesn’t have Hidden Missiles before messing with her. The assist is the problem, not the character. You will never, ever see Morrigan win a major without Hidden Missiles.

Major changes I want to see:
-TACs are no longer random (cost meter to activate), and no longer have the possibility of removing meter from your opponent (this is dumb)
-TACs no longer generate meter and at most reset hitstun, but don’t prevent it from taking effect
-Ground throw teching now creates enough space between characters to prevent multiple sequential throw-tech series (this is dumb)
-All characters receive good assist options. This game is about team creativity, and it hurts the metagame when some characters are “point only”.

I’ll just talk about the characters I use the most (>10,000 uses) and what I would like to see changed about them:

Dormammu:
-0D3C made useful somehow. He’s a long-term planning character, and it’s pretty sad that one of his options is just not worth using…ever. Sometimes I get it on accident and it’s amusing, but that’s it. Ideas:

  1. 0D3C now hits full-screen and anchors players to the ground (counters characters like Trish, Chris, and Magneto)
  2. 0D3C is not unblockable (it was this way pre-release; I’m not fond of this idea but it’s worth considering)
  3. 0D3C now comes out on F1 a la 1D2C and 2D1C, and has 20 high priority hit points (counters random beam hypers)
  4. 0D3C calls one tracking Meteor to crash down on an opponent - hard knockdown.

Any of these would at least make it worth considering for certain matchups.

-1D0C, 2D0C, 0D1C, 0D2C have some kind of value. 1D1C is useful for certain team combos, and that’s a good thing. They shouldn’t be anywhere near as valuable as the big stuff, but it would be nice for them to have value beyond “something I’m trying to get past”. 0D1C and 0D2C used to OTG pre-release, so maybe that idea can be explored again. They’re by far the saddest option as they aren’t even safe on block.

-Damage toned down a bit. I would like this to be the case for most of the cast. I’m not a big fan of the “ToD combos” that fill this game. I’m not sure why Dormammu needed a damage buff in the first place. He had a lot of problems in Vanilla, and still has a lot of problems, but damage is not one of them.

-Give him better assists. Ideas:

  1. Dark Spell L - basically the Liberation assist, but a little better since you could call it to build up to 3D0C eventually.
  2. Tracking Purification - Strider gets an inverse Purification that leads to full combos, so this seems fine; I would back Morrigan with it
  3. Flame Carpet - probably too good for unblockable setups and OTG options
  4. Dark Matter - it wall bounces, but it only has 1 hit point; I think this would be good on keepaway teams

-Dark Dimension receives some kind of boost. Level 3 hypers should be amazing, and this one is not. I would like to see Devil Must Die set as the standard for level 3 hypers: invincibility, good screen coverage, good damage, leads to full combos. Dark Dimension doesn’t even beat beam hypers on reaction - it’s crap. Level 3s should be about either massive damage (Shun Goku Satsu) or the utility (Penance Stare) - Dark Dimension is neither.

Morrigan:
-Astral Vision remains the same; it’s right in line with other install hypers, but Hidden Missiles makes it too good; it will be fine if Hidden Missiles gets a nerf
-Darkness Illusion is made not-crap.
-Her “ground dash” is moronic. The move is pure suicide. Either make it a real ground dash, or let Morrigan cancel it into an attack within 5 frames startup so it’s good for instant overheads.
-No minimum height on air dashes. Let me Soul Fist L, fly-cancel, and air dash in.
-Shadow Servant is always her THC. Finishing Shower is awful.
-Soul Fist L removed as an assist, replaced with Soul Drain.

She’s fine otherwise. I’d like to see more of her Darkstalkers stuff incorporated, but I’m expecting the bare minimum here. Nooneyouknow has good suggestions, but I’m not confident in endorsing them at this stage. I would like to see how she progresses as a character without Hidden Missiles before evaluating her needs. I doubt anyone who is suggesting nerfs to this character actually uses her. People should stick to what they know. For some of the posters here, that means not saying anything at all.

Phoenix:
-Undo Vanilla nerfs aside from the X-Factor value changes - that was needed. She costs 5 bars, she needs to be worth it. Otherwise I might as well pick Vergil.

Firebrand:
-Hell Spitfire H’s startup time and recovery is halved.
-Hell Spitfire H no longer leaves Firebrand prone when done in the air.
-Hell Spitfire H no longer disappears when Firebrand takes damage.
-Hell Spitfire L replaces Demon Charge H as an assist.
-After a Hell Dive H/M, Firebrand’s direction auto-corrects (it’s dumb that I can’t Hell Claw after swooping past my opponent)
-Demon Charge H is now Demon Charge H (charge) as an assist (i.e. he now has his unblockable as an assist, complete with the massive chargeup time)
-Flight (qcb.S) is removed.
-qcb.S now performs Hell Rise, which swoops Firebrand higher into the air (basically an inverse Hell Dive L - I think it’s dumb that Firebrand can’t fly higher if he wants to)
-All Hell Dive moves now place Firebrand in auto-flight after use; auto-flight has no startup time
-Hell Elevator and Hell Claw no longer have flight startup time, but still have auto-flight.
-Hell Elevator can now be canceled into other specials and command normals, just as the Hell Dive moves can
-Firebrand’s total time in auto-flight after leaving the ground is limited to 120 frames so as to prevent continuous Hell Rise moves (qcb.S)
-Dark Fire now causes a soft knockdown (I can’t even DHC into Chaotic Flame from it, which is really annoying)
-Chaos Tide’s helper summon now performs its H swooping attack regardless of which button you input - the L and M attacks have been removed (completely useless); the hyper now consumes 2 bars of meter (I think this should be the standard for all of the current level 3 utility hypers, but I am worried that it would become spammable now, since Firebrand can gain meter during this hyper)
-Luminous Body now upgrades Firebrand’s fireball attacks along with its previous benefits. Hellfire L/M’s fireball increases to 8 projectile hit points and doubles in width (roughly to MvC2 MM’s uncharged blaster size) - damage increased to 120,000 from 100,000, and Hellfire H’s fire is now Firebrand’s height and travels double its normal distance; I don’t see these changes having particularly strong effects on Firebrand’s point game, they’re more about giving him good assist options a la Zero

Assist Overhaul:
I mentioned this in the beginning, but in particular I really want to see more anti-airs. Right now you have four options against characters that air stall: Jam Session, Vajra, Mystic Ray and Hidden Missiles. That’s it. The number of horizontal projectiles is massive compared to this. I mentioned tracking Purification, but we have other options just sitting on characters for no reason, like Energy Javelin (Nova), Dagger of Denak L (Dr. Strange), Crossbow (Gold Armor Arthur), and Charged Voomerang (Joe). Ideally, the game should allow for custom assists - just let us pick what we want. There are very few moves that would not be acceptable in a custom assist environment. And nothing could be worse than Hidden Missiles.

I won’t bold these because I don’t use the characters, but I would like to see overhauls on the following:
-Storm:

  1. Give her a Lightning Strike that tracks. L version appears 1/4 screen in front of opponent, M version on top, H version behind. Ground bounces when jumping, staggers on ground. Performable in the air.
  2. Typhoon now reaches superjump height and is aerial cancelable. Now special cancelable.
  3. Float now allows assist to be called again after superjumping.
  4. Lightning Sphere can now be performed on the ground.

Now Storm is a beast, and fun to play.

-Shuma-Gorath:

  1. Charge moves gone.
  2. Screen-dependent teleport; appears at the top of the neutral screen at far left (L), middle (M), or far right (H).
  3. Chaos Dimension has a follow-up on par with Dirt Nap.

Now he doesn’t suck.

112

Let’s be 100% logical guys. TAC’s aren’t going anywhere.

Team Aerial Combos was added to Marvel 3 to make combos alot more creative and damaging. This shit has gone too far with the infinites, but they will not remove it or change the whole thing around. Some character IMO rely on TACs to get damage and meter (like Ironman).

The best they can probably do to this game is make it to where TAC infinites don’t exist. TAC infinites are a glitch in the TAC system and this did show how stupid the TAC mechanic is. If they gonna get rid of the DHC glitch, they might as well get rid of this. They MIGHT tone down x-factor a tad bit but Im sure thats it.

Fuck TACs but you just gonna have to learn to like them.

That being said:

System changes:

  • Remove TAC infinites. Make it where Marvel registers that you touched the ground earlier.
  • Slight tone down on the attack power of x-factor. If they kill my whole team, they should use at least SOME meter.
  • More damage for a correct TAC guess. Make it more of a reward for a correct guess.
  • An easier mechanic to make a correct guess. If not the above change, then do this so that people will start breaking these easier.
  • Make so that you can punish assists as they try to leave so that you and/or your opponent has to protect their assists, ala Marvel 2. This was the biggest problem in vanilla. Tron was pretty much unpunishable. Haggar was only punishable for a couple frames. If this change was in vanilla, then it really wouldn’t of been that much of a problem.

Every character in this game should be as good as Wesker. IMO he is the standard character everybody should aim for. Certain characters just can’t do that, but you can at least try. You also have to take account of what is retarded about them. With this being said, I got some changes in mind.

Strider:

  • Increase range of launcher and cr. H so that LMHS doesn’t fuck up at a certain distance.
  • Buff normals and special attacks by at least 15 - 20k at minimum damage scaling.
  • Increase the damage on Legion with all hits by 50k.
  • Make it so that animals can be canceled into satellite (QCB+S) when its already out
  • Shorten the knockdown on vajra on point and assist
  • Shorten lvl 3 x-factor duration
  • 800k health

Sentinel:

  • Decrease on overall damage
  • Increase the speed of his normals
  • Normals do chip now
  • Increase health to at least 1.05 million
  • Air raid disappears when Sentinel is hit

Doom:
-Decrease hitbox or extend hurtbox of footdive

Vergil:

  • Whiffed normals are not cancelable (not even to his hypers)

Nemesis:

  • Invincible 0 frame start up on his LVL 3
  • Better tracking on rocket super

Hawkeye:

  • Less floaty/slow jump

Strange:

  • Better movement. Longer dash.
  • cr. L a low

Dormammu:

  • cr. M extended hit box

There is probably more thats in the back of my head, but thats all I can really think of…

113

The properties of Forcefield is why it doesn’t need any buffs.

It’s a meterless 3f startup reversal that can be made safe by calling an assist before it(Jam Session for example keeps it safe and he can recover in time to confirm off Jam Session, if they stuff Jam FF is activated). It’s throw OSable, and eats everything that’s not a hyper and will be activated by any physical non hyper attack including assists. There is no guessing involved with the move unlike Ammy/Task/Wesker counters(high/low/projectile), it will eat up projectiles and normal moves and on activation is more invincible than the majority of level 1s in the game. Magneto certainly doesn’t need a buff to get one of the strongest meterless no flash defensive options in the game by making it comboable. It’s a good thing that he has to commit when using ForceField or spend bar/xfactor to get the kill. Yes EX Seismo is better, but EX Seismo is broken and requires 1 bar too.

I don’t really want to nerf anyone, and damage output nerfs are kind of iffy due to damage scaling and damage values being whack across the board in this game. The only nerf I’d like is Spiral Sword Durability or recovery nerf because as it is it shuts 90% of the cast from playing. It was designed to counter zoning, but I’m sure he can do fine vs Zoning with just a teleport + a medium or 1 point high durability Spiral Swords.

Idk about giving Strange an Airdash, he was clearly designed with that in earlier builds in mind. I’m sure giving him an air dash along with the potency of his teleports + SoV is a terrifying combination. 100% sure the airdash got removed from an earlier build where he was broke. I think he’s meant to be played with abusing his teleports (ie the MastaCJ). Asking for buffs is a slippery slope and can lead to characters being stupidly broken/derpy.

114

Spidey man- One of the below:

  • Increased hitboxes (particularly on his jump S and C, making them cross up a lot better). This would give him actual, unreactable mix ups.
  • Increased damage on Web balls, (maybe 80% of current soul fists. Chip damage and meter gain scale accordingly). Gives him a legit runaway/zoning game.
  • Ground zip allows him to zip upforward after a fixed amount of time, instead of it increasing along with Spidey’s distance from the corner (maybe fix it to the time currently needed when he zips at 3 character spaces away from the corner). Ground zip is a great tool which would give Spiderman unseeable mix ups… unfortunately all the opponent needs to do in its current form is duck it.
  • Give him an air web throw that starts the same combos as the current grounded web throw. (Ignore this. Stupid wish fulfilment suggestion. Would be cool though cause it compliments his current runaway game by allowing him to start TODs while staying relatively safe.)
115

I disliked a lot of those, but Blistering Swords being the default formation, I like A LOT. I’d even keep his cr. H glitch in if I got that change.
Also, leave Zero and Morrigan alone. Their thing is that they both can get tagged on the derpiest moves. They are balanced as is.

116

Balancing characters is really hard. Although a change in isolation might sound pretty good, it’s hard to know what the rationale is behind it, whether that rationale makes sense, and whether the proposed change will make it through play-testing / tweaking true to the original intent. At best, we’re going to end up with slightly-different-marvel with the same underlying design problems, as patches usually do.

IMHO, the focus should be on minimally tweaking the mechanics that give disproportional advantage to only a select few characters, or have the most probability of making the game stale in the future.

  • TACs, as rock/paper/scissor/lizard as they might be, give characters with low damage the possibility of solving that problem and making them viable. Infinites come with the cost of giving the opponent 5 bars, so although lame it’s not a glaring issue. That said, they should probably go, because history has shown that they can easily break a game (e.g. keep-away team that puts you in low-damage infinite on hit to run down the clock).
  • For the same reason, regular infinites (not XFactor infinites) should go. I can only think of Morrigan atm.
  • Removing OS throws should be considered, since only a few characters abuse them and they shut down several options. I have no idea how without introducing new problems, though.
  • Unblockables haven’t been an issue so far, but as tech comes out, Viper in particular could become too strong. She might end up being able to end the match in one clean hit vs most teams.
  • The RT glitch might need to go.

On the flip side, mechanics that give disproportional disadvantage to characters should be tweaked / removed as well.

  • No random patterns for supers (Strider and Shuma that I know of).
  • No gold armor ticking bomb.
  • No random Hsien-Ko projectiles (Hsien players should speak for me here).
  • Etc…

As for character specific changes, I’ll echo the sentiment of some: Don’t nerf anything, buff the lower tiers. Marvel is a team game, and most stuff is balanced by composition. Strategies that are perceived as too strong usually exist because players don’t want to adapt and change their team to fight it effectively. The best way to make the game more interesting and resilient to stagnation is to make more characters viable, not to butcher the good characters.

Of course, it’s debatable what constitutes the lower tiers, but I think there’s a good idea of what the top 10-15 characters are.

117

I don’t think Spencer’s unscaled upgrapples should become scaled. The idea of reducing the damage to 50-60k is fine, but making it scale would remove so much of his damage output. I mean it’s not like people play the character because he has hard to block mixups. I think people are too concerned with nerfing every character they think is good when they should be advocating buffing the worse characters.

Plus I clearly play the character and would be salty if they nerfed him :frowning:

118

Give him increased capture time on H Web Ball. It’s not really something you can react to and combo off of if it hits. That alone would greatly fix Spidey’s entire character.

119

Wow. That’s a big one. How did I forget that. You can only air throw and air tech throws with forward and backward +H. No more dive kick or helm breaker option selects.

120

hidden missiles should not dissapear on hit
That is a horrible idea. I don’t even use missiles, but I’m just pointing out how bad the idea is. Every person would just switch to plasma beam. This isn’t drones. You can’t cover it on startup then use the drones as a cover for sentinel as an assist. Once you call missiles, doom isn’t protected by anything since the missiles rise vertically. There is no wall of stuff to protect him. That change would make missiles shitty.
Ideal missiles change:
Reduce accuracy of hidden missiles
This would make it less of an auto-momentum shift and would still be good against teleporters and as a defensive option. It would still be good for zoning and rushdown too, but the change would require the player to abuse the missiles by working around them correctly like other assists, instead of the missiles working for the player.