UMvC3 version 2013: The feedback thread

Should we do something more official, like have every character forum develop a list of realistic changes since they know more about the in and outs of each character, and then after two weeks or so, compile all of it into one design document along with general system changes and get it Capcom? Seems like without organization it’s just a bunch of random shouting about nerfing Vergil and Zero without much foresight. We need essentially a community representative with a full, poured-over change log, like Viscant or Shady K or something to get it to Combofiend or somebody connected with Capcom to push it into someone important’s desk, otherwise all of this excitement won’t really go anywhere.

I’m just worried that we’re getting hyped over a random comment a developer unrelated to Marvel made, and that there are many other obstacles. Without organization, I don’t want Capcom to just see a bunch of zealous fanboyism.

Can Capcom actually make Ryu a legitimate contender please? Not since the days of X-Men vs Street Fighter ( I don’t count TvC) was actually a strong viable character and his “last” solid incarnation was MSHvsSF. Outside of that it’s been a wayside joke with him besides RayRay utilizing him in actual competitive play, but the truth of the matter is that he’s not a great character.

Give him much better options then he does right now, and although I was against this idea prior to MvC3 release all those years ago, I wouldn’t even mind if Capcom gave him an Airdash to be able to become more competitive in the air. Give Air Tatsu a stronger hitbox so it can more dangerous, maybe a slightly wider control of his Shinkuu-Hadouken. Capcom could possibly even give him stronger zoning capabilities with his projectiles so that if he is not going to dramatically improve offensively that he can zone and position (ala Cable like or how Ryu would be in the legitimate SF series). I wouldn’t mind this change since it would create more versatility of play in a game that is heavily rush down oriented.

I don’t feel that I’m asking for a lot when I say Make Ryu competitive please. It’s frustrating when you are a Purist player however you refrain from using him is because their are multiple other characters who can do what he does but simply superior on all facets. Capcom, please make your Poster Child a Contender.

Also, I disagree completely on removing Morrigan from being able to build meter in Astral Vision, just simply make her gain less then half the meter build of what she does right now. This makes it so that the frequency of Astral Vision is cut down, but that it can still be viable. I don’t want to see Morrigan nerfed to the damn ground, because I would still like to see her as a strong viable pick, not just a useless character on the roster after the update.

To me, I would hate to see many of the strong characters go to mediocrity or no existence due to random complaints. Do only slight tweaks to the strong characters while focusing most on making the uncompetitive characters stronger and more viable as picks.

My thoughts:

First of all, system mechanics should be the first consideration. Character specific changes would need to come after since the universal changes can have a big effect on the strength of certain strategies.

-Remove X-factor completely

-Remove TAC’s completely

-Change meter build to 70% of what it was in Vanilla instead of the current 80%.

-Re-evaluate everyone’s min scaling, such that there is a much bigger discrepancy between longer combos and the abcs abcs garbage. Everyone should probably have at least 15% minimum scaling, but have the scaling be much steeper at the start of a combo.

-Make throws 2 buttons, add a wfiff animation and significantly reduce their range (or fix weird hurtboxes). Re-evaluate who can and can’t followup their throws since it makes little sense now. Make it so normal throws no longer beat command throws (seriously, fuck you Capcom for letting this go by).

-Nerf all teleports and any move that is a canned unreactable mixup (berserker slash)

-Nerf the the dumber sword hitboxes, remove unnecessary properties like negating projectiles.

-Improve hitboxes and startup on some of the more gimped normals

-Make it so your character absolutely cannot turn around mid chain. You misjudge a chain, your character should fucking die, not be rewarded for having no sense of spacing.

-reduce initial hitstun slightly, but make the hitstun timer run slower that way you can still do longer combos. This will make hitconfirming a little less stupid

-Remove the hard knockdown on footdive

-Leave missiles as they are, Doom being out there forever is a HUGE weakness. Not only in the sense that it’s punishable, but also because the defending point character has few recourses if your second character has a safe DHC since they won’t have that luxury while Doom is being hit.

If you must nerf missiles, make it so a reticle appears on the ground where the missiles will hit from the moment they are released. Right now, the homing property only kicks in when they loop back down. Making missiles disappear if Doom is hit would make them completely useless.

-Make it so drones don’t disappear on hit anymore.

-Boost Sent’s health to 1.2 million.

-Nerf Vajra somehow. It’s incredibly stupid coupled with some of the teleports. Maybe make it a soft knockdown?

-no meter build during Astral vision, reduce the damage on soul fists from 90k to 70k.

-reduce the damage on supers (make it so fully mashed is the same damage as from Vanilla)

-boost everyone’s life by at least 30%

-Timer also 30% longer (may need to change back to 2 out of 3 for tournies, but hopefully other changes would make it so this is ok)

-cannot call assists while rolling or teching out of the air.

-castrate Vergil and Zero

-If you need to remove unscaled grapples, change Spencer’s minimum scaling to 20%. People don’t realize there would be practically no reason to play him over other characters without this.

-get rid of moves hitting behind characters either by fixing hitboxes or hurtboxes. I realize this mostly happens because Capcom didn’t want combos to drop, but fuck man, part of a fighting game needs to include using your judgement to see when something will and will not work.

This is a list of changes that I might like to see, just some ideas I had. If the character has “no changes” its because I think they are perfect in their current form. If they are not listed, I do not know enough about them to have an opinion.

Overall system changes:
X-factor gives no damage or speed boosts, just increases the maximum scaling
X-Factor duration changes due to how many characters left
TACs reset hitstun back to 0, but it grows normally
Cross over assists have universal invulnerability on coming in
Grab input retooled
Make all install supers gain 1/3 meter while activated (swords, devil trigger, luminous body, berserker, etc)
Be able to select which THC you want after you select your assist
Wall and ground bounce assists are always forced, but only as assists
All fixed range assists (Vergil’s cutting ball thing, Dorm’s pillar, etc) home in on the opponent with the closest range of the attack
Remove meter changes on TACs
If you guess on a TAC, it reverses on the other player (like pre MvC3)

Akuma:
Give him the ability to perform the beam hyper in a THC (when he is not on point)

Amaterasu:
Bloom assist made slightly faster (match the new Morrigan and Frank ones)

Arthur:
Give a dash during golden armor
When armor breaks have it do a slight “explosion” for pushback (armor flying off) like Deadpool’s failed teleport into a soft knockdown
Slight speed increase and damage decrease when in boxers

Captain America:
Sheild slash should return when it hits something or someone (like it does in the comics)
Less recovery on shield slash throw
Make cartwheel super cancelable

Chris Redfield:
Something to help him close the gap, I like the idea of SRK+S to throw a “net grenade” like Hawkeye’s hunter arrow
Be able to throw grenades in the air

Crimson Viper:
No Changes

Dante:
No Changes

Doctor Strange:
No Changes

Dormammu:
No Changes

Dr. Doom:
S foot dive ground bounces but does not put in a hard knockdown (unless in launch state)
Hidden missiles disappear when doom is hit

Firebrand:
Increase minimum damage scaling to 20%
Remove unblockable but do something else with the charge, maybe make it invincible or something

Frank West:
Remove level 1 and level 5 Frank, leaving him a three level character with level ups at 20 and 50 hits
Drink assist should come out and recover quicker (Morrigans should be a bit slower, and Ammy and Frank’s should match it)
Also just for fun: SRK+S can be his shopping cart move (the assist)

Iron Fist:
Keep launcher hitting low, but also make it able to hit airborne opponents

Iron Man:
Fix his ground dashes so he can cancel them into moves sooner
Make smart bombs S+A and then make them all H smart bombs, but have different ranges
Fix his gimpy launcher
Make Proton Cannon less punishable on hit and block

Morrigan:
Meter gain assist is slightly slower coming out and leaving (Ammy and Frank’s changed to match)

Nemesis:
Reverse SRK+S = 45 degree down rocket that OTGs
Biohazard rush has invincibility on startup (through the first punch) and no hyper armor
Hyper combos scale at 60% instead of 20% (They do 320k and 360k if all hits were unscaled)
Command grabs have follow ups (similar to spencer) L is ground bounce, M is wall bounce, H is restand
df+H is up angled deadly reach (from a crouch)
Assists change:
Remove rocket launcher and add in angled rocket launcher
1.2 mil health
Level 3 starts up faster (frame 0 after flash like ghost rider’s) and has the option to be ground, air, or capture depending on the two buttons you press. Changable like Taskmaster’s arrows

Nova:
Slightly slower acceleration on air dash
Make his red life moves able to use or not use red life (hold L for a bit, M for more, H for all)

Phoenix Wright:
Remove bad evidence (this way it depends on what evidence you have for what you can use)

Sentinel:
Higher health

She-Hulk:
Back to Vanilla?

Strider:
Ragnorok as a weaker lvl 1 hyper

Super Skrull:
Backwards aerial dash
Rolling hook input changed to S+A

Vergil:
Swords super becomes forward facing swords as default
Remove round trip glitch
Increase landing lag on Helm breaker a bit, remove teleport follow ups and S follow ups from it

Zero:
No soft knockdown on lightning
No buster cancel on special moves (except teleports)

What would fix morrigan is restoring her soul fist damage back to 70,000, maybe even lowering it to 60,000.
Damage is what fuels her meter build.

Felicia needs a forced Ground bounce. Too many of her attacks ground bounce the foe. All of her normals/Specials need to have counterhit properties to make her a counterhit character which would make her a unique choice between wesker and wolverine. Faster Charge attacks

DP attacks need to be faster as assists, so more characters can have a viable assist.

Tone down damage so reset characters are actually useful.

Xfactor burst added.

Slides returned to Vanilla state.

Buff Iron Man’s mid range tools ( i.e Speed of his specials, and H normals.)

Rocket Raccoon net trap either lower start up on stays active upon hitting rocky. Give Rocket Wall traps or an air trap

Arthur Lower startup/recovery of Dashing attack Allow soft knockdown after armor, give speed boost, nerf damage given for no armor

Fix homing attacks so they actually hit. Increase active frames. make them go away on hit

Give Trish ThunderBolt air only. lower startup of Low voltage L, Round trip and give her back her air actions.

Give Hawkeye a double jump or a wall jump

Increase Hitbox on Mystic Smash, Faster Charge attacks and air dashes for shuma.

Increase startup of zero buster.

Add more recovery to Viper’s ex attacks. Let viper DHC in with Ex attacks.
more later…

remove X-factor damage buff. XF speed boost, regardless of lvl, adjusted to current lvl3 XF speed. XF current time limits remain unchanged.

remove tac infinites, remove tac meter gain/loss and instead provide damage buff in all directions, and if your tac is broken opponent gets an air series combo with no HSD with all hard knockdowns reverting to soft knockdowns until opponent recovers out of counter-combo.

No character should be able to do more than 700k damage off 1 meter, and no less than 550k. Damage done by additional meter usage is also scaled. Hyper punishes will be of great reward. This is a passive buff to high health characters as well. With a more reset heavy game, meter build should be slightly nerfed.

Some obvious character changes are morrigan astral vision not giving meter (soul steal ok though) and damage is reduced by 25% during astral (75% normal damage for morrigan and her shadow so still adds up to more damage), opponent falls faster from zeros lightning (removes loops, makes for more legit confirms, still great character), vergils swords are lvl 3 with it’s extensions being their own lvl 1 independent hypers or have swords have less priority over other hypers like ouroborus or taskmaster arrows. Wolverine’s fatal claw throws opponent upon final hit so it cannot be chained.

buff hsien-ko dash speed (all dashes)

chris needs anti-air gunshots

phoenix wright assist gains armor with turnabout (1 point so that it can beat out normals and punish, but still allow him to be punished for bad calls).

buff certain fireball assist durability (ryu, akuma, chunli)

Give ryu fireballs varying speed based on atk button pressed (L-H slow-fast)

Arthur needs a dash

arthur gold armor and deadpool teleport bust give soft knockdown instead of HKD

return vanilla she-hulks slide

return point trons game to vanilla trons

sentinels health boosted to <= thors

buff phoenix to 750k (don’t forget, damage normalization and xf doesn’t give damage boost, dark phoenix wouldn’t be too big a deal.) Remove all anti-phoenix tech aside from soul steal.

give iron fist a ground command grab, 1 that hits standing, 1 that anti-airs, and 1 that can be comboed into putting opponent in standing position and ends combo for a reset.

not sure what else. doom needs a nerf on his assist but i’m not sure how much of a nerf. Not that hidden missiles is a big deal, but for balance purposes, this assist still outclasses everyone elses.

Don’t know enough about other characters to know what they truly need. Something also needs to be done about the game timer. If we are to have a fairly legit game, the timer currently would give timeouts all the time if the other balances i listed were considered.

I like the idea of discussing character buffs/nerfs in their respective character discussion threads. Should we focus this thread on non-character specific changes/system mechanics?

Phoenix Wright Specific Balance Adjustments:

Iron Man needs a better ground dash bare fucking minimum.

You can’t nerf throws in this game except for maybe making them impossible to combo off(which wouldn’t be a bad idea). If throws were worse the offense would be completely unstoppable.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

As for me, here are some of my suggestions:

Nova
(below is a post I made in the Nova forums about how it could work out)

[details=Spoiler]Random buffs that came to mind in the lab:
Give Nova a beam for his projectile…his super is so why not his regular ones? He does some little ass fart for a blast (w/out using all red health)
EITHER:
-Make it so the non-red health ones start up slower (like bolts of ballsack slow but JUST A BIT faster or unibeam kind of speed) and more red health = faster start up (like disrupter fast but a little slower) + the regular properties they already have. Also make it like plasma beam/unibeam: farther = less damage
OR
-Make it like Spencer’s armor piercer: closer = faster start up and vice versa (farther = longer start up). Red health just buffs damage and gives it the same properties as right now and the opposite of plasma/unibeam…farther you are, the more damage it does…it makes sense imo…reward for being able to successfully do it from a distance…He’s an energy manipulator…Maybe if they do this, a nerf could be if you do it with a H pulse infront of you, you blast it away (that way the “reward” of more damage for distance isn’t broken and the slower start up for distance doesnt make it usless from a distance) and possibly have the shield cause a trade of some sort? Something like if you do a no red health beam with a no red health shield, the shield is gone and the beam is regular…red health shield and no red health beam, part of the shield’s durability get blasted and the beam is regular. This way with 1 shield on screen w. red health you get a max of like 1 shield, 1 beam, 1 javelin before you gotta put up another shield.

-Maybe only characters with a crouch height of like below Nova’s abs can duck it without red health and the red health one can only be avoided by like Wolverine and smaller? This way it isn’t as wack as bolts but still usable during the game.

-Make the slowest vesrion of the new beam an assist instead of his wall bounce rocket punch. As the assist, only red health buff can be more damage…no stagger or wall bounce

-It would be mad cool if he could absorb projectiles (like Viper’s focus attack) and instead of taking normal damage it chips away at what he has and just leaves red health (like when you hit an assist or when Haggar uses his lariat) but that might be OD.

-Another buff, I would like to actually be able to beat projectiles when I react to them/read them with my PROJECTILE INVINCIBLE SUPER >_<. Not saying I want a fullscreen Bionic Arm but lord have mercy…please just give me the average projectile’s start up frames in frames of invincibility in the beginning or something like that.

-Maybe nerf/adjust his airdash a bit…if we wanna look at the speed ratio as 25-75 (the beginning and acceleration), make it like 32-68 and slightly nerf the overall speed…that way box dash H isn’t so stupid and derpy and maybe this can slow down his instant overhead speed…I’m a Nova player and all but DAMN that shit is ridiculously fast lol

-Adjust the way hitstun deterioration works with him…Like damn…1 extra L, M, or H and his j.S whiffs and shit lmaoo. If this is the case, then slightly nerf his all around damage…adjusting his hitun can make double fly-unfly and things of that nature pretty free…This will also compensate for tweaking his fireball which might not work in combos the same way…with a beam and the adjusted air dash…uh, let’s not give Magneto players a new main XD.

Overall, I feel like these changes would make Nova bit more viable in other spots and give people FORCED to play Magneto and Doom a little more of an option for an assist. It’s not that much of a bad look either because they have to sacrifice using M Centurian Rush for unblockables/combos to get a beam while possibly having a free slot to replace the projectile assist they were using…more team possibilities. Imagine if Yipes was still able to play Dante Vergil Nova because of this?[/details]

Taskmaster
Buffs:

  1. Increase the hard knockdown duration on his counters/unblockable follow up ender and his forward throw. It is really tricky to get an OTG off of these things.
  2. Decrease start up and recovery on his physical counters. Possibly give them a “holdable” property like Ammy’s counters BUT, make it like his arrows where you can hold them, but after a certain point, he just releases automatically.
  3. JUST A LITTLE more hit stun on his arrows
  4. this one is A BIT of a stretch…I can live without it Someone posted earlier about giving his super counter a crumple state after…I kind of like that idea but it might make him a little OD

Spencer
TBH, Spencer is fine as he is…he just hits hard. Maybe just a more input leniency for his attk+S zip. I play pad so sometimes it can be really hard to actually hit both buttons at the SAME TIME which causes random TAC’s when I do combos.

Thor
Buffs:

  1. Adjust the hitboxes on his normals…please lol
  2. Hardknock down after mighty punish (allowing Mighty Thunder after it)

Iron Man

  1. Adjust his movement overall. His movement is so awkward and can be problematic for combos/neutral…at least in my opinion
  2. I kind of wouldnt mind if his normals that have the little beams on them could neutralize certain projectiles.

Vergil
Nerfs (duh)

  1. Make Helmet Breaker unsafe on block
  2. Decrease the amount of hits SS does. I really don’t mind Vergil being a 2nd slot character for DHC, but I think what makes them SO OD is the fact that swords gives you a chance to do so many moves…and this results in the OD damage
  3. Fix the stupid ass hitboxes on his normals
  4. Why does his H or w/e beat projectiles? Come on now >_>
  5. Decrease the buffs he gets in XF. TO BE REALLY HONEST, the only thing that makes Vergil such a fuckboy is how stupidly derp he becomes in XF lvl3. Those that play him legit more than likely have him second anyway. There is no reason why 2 Character Shell w/ anchor Vergil should be so stupid.

There’s other things for me but I would basically be reiterating stuff other people have said for certain characters. Overall, my stance is like almost everyone else. SLIGHT NERFS to the S tier and buff everyone else.

With balancing a game, I’ve always been a fan of fixing anything thats broken, as in specific moves, regardless of character tiers. Then balance from there. Mostly just buffing the low tiers like crazy.

why do people want soul fist durability lowered , alot of shit beats them

I don’t understand
I don’t mind her building meter in astral but if she dont get it it needs to be there when she tags out

Current State of the Game - Currently the game is still very open to much of the cast unlike MvC2. However 2 archetypes tend to dominate in high level play for the most part: TOD vortexes and Space Control Lockdown. The TOD vortex is the standard 1 combo kill with an ambiguous reset on incoming. Space Control Lockdown is using characters like Morrigan or Vergil to constantly keep the opponent pinned down till you open up. Typically these teams follow the concept of not letting the other player play once things get rolling, which leads to hype comebacks…but generally braindead gameplay once this establishes and turns into a dexterity competition. Gimicks and team tech have begun to thin out fundamentals and neutral game is occurring less and less with how far damage and synergy has come since Vanilla day1.

So what concepts are breaking the game?

TODs are too easy to accomplish and build - TODs make perfect sense in marvel, however currently a lot of characters can accomplish them for little effort, resources, or team consideration. Capcom took strides to lessen meter gain in attempts to lower damage output and nerf Phoenix indirectly, however combos and unexpected no-hitstun extensions have evolved too far and typically most teams can deal 1 mil with a single meter at start without need of X-factor. If your character can’t, simply adding a character like Vergil or Spencer, a free reset gimick, or a TAC infinite can give any character a free TOD. Team synergy to accomplish this is a good thing, but we are seeing it become too commonplace with too many mixes. Resources and shells need to be planned more carefully and give the player narrower options if they must have a TOD. There needs to be a sacrifice in utility or some other area to justify an easy TOD with a single character or pairing.

This has lead to making the game less deep by invalidating the need for neutral game resets, managing resources, and making characters who should do TODs invalidated by characters that shouldn’t by design (EX: hulk vs zero…why does zero get self 1meter TODs and hulk has to use a specific team???). We also have some characters that deal too much damage for minimal effort, making optimal combos laughably pointless at times (EX: doom s.HS, sjc.MM,footdive,footdive (x3!)).
**
Incoming vortexes** - This is by far the worst problem in UMvC3 right now. In combination with easy access TODs, it’s not uncommon for wolverine or zero to open the match up with a hit and literally end the fight in 3 combos with 2 incoming vortexes. For the opponent, the incoming is a guess…it is not a skillful block unless the attacking player messes up and leaves an indication of the side to block. What we have is far too much reward for being hit and no real options for the other player. Sometimes these can be inescapable, give the attacker more free set ups to keep attacking even if you block right, etc… Basically the skill is purely in how ambiguous the set up can be crafted, but for the other player there’s no real level of training that can prepare you for high level set ups that are truly ambiguous.

A simple fix of letting incoming choose a direction to emerge or placing a temporary scaling penalty to a combo if hit (similar to a throw which scales damage and hitstun remaining). The offense deserves neutral game advantage, however they do not deserve a free setup with no consideration to the actions of the second player. This is a two player game, not a combo video. You shouldn’t be rewarded for a guess scenario that wasn’t set up in neutral game. Calling jam session and running under the opponent who can’t even see you is not exactly a skill intensive effort that should yield a free TOD followup because they guessed wrong. The incoming opponent is already disadvantaged by a lost teammate and a 4 second penalty denying them access to assists, alpha counters, THCs, DHCs, hard tags, and a forced arc of movement.

Some characters have excelled beyond their design - I think the worst case of this is Zero. Zero has high priority normals, great movement, self setting cross ups/mix ups, gimicks, auto correcting safe buster, etc… This character is blatantly designed to open the opponent up and have a dominating neutral game. The trade off was low damage and low life…however with TODs so highly prevalent, life totals have become more meaningless and Lightning Loop has now made Zero one of the most efficient self sustaining TOD vortexs in the game for very low meter limitations. The character has exceeded his role as a low damage mix/up and heavy priority character that would need a heavy hitter normally to deal damage, burn 3 meter, or depend on drop combo resets. The character now doesn’t need to focus on those problems and has a free pass to build teams to fill his other gaps, leaving no real weakness to the character unlike others who must pick and choose what they can or cant have in the end.

This is simple a matter of forcing characters into respective archetypes. Strider is a great example of how Zero should work out. He possess great neutral game advantage and very solid assists, however he must work really hard for damage or burn resources that may not guarantee a full comeback. He is a balanced. As well reset heavy characters should not be out damaging heavy hitters like Hulk who must work hard to get in and land a hit.

X-Factor offensive perks - I fully believe in the concept of a comeback factor in UMvC3. Why? Because without it the game snowballs as you lose utility. It cripples the opponent too much after the fact. The solution however needs to work as an equilibrium…not a get out of jail free insane mode. The idea behind it should be one that is more defensive in nature not offensive. Right now it can be used as an offensive tool for insane dmg buffs, speed to dominate neutral game, and worst of all punishing the opponent on block for a free kill. There’s a lot of room for thought, but at the end X-Factor should be about aiding survivability and compensating for loss of utility of an assist. Concepts to play with are more healing, less damage taken, armor, buffing only hyper dmg or certain moves not normals, bursting out of combos or adding hitstun penalty if you get hit, both characters return to neutral (canceling an attack but removing the freebie punish factor), etc… X-factor needs to balance the playing feel, not hand you control.

TACs - In short TAC infinites need to go, but more importantly the concepts of TACs don’t work. TAC’s give 3 specific perks and a free character swap out. The idea is that the 3 perks will give a mindgame of wagering at risk of dropping the combo. Up - more dmg, down - free meter, side - steal meter. Now combos have made up and down completely pointless since you will likely deal more damage and gain enough meter to make it a mute point. The side is the only true perk that gives the defending player a coherent mind game. If the offense doesn’t care about stealing meter, they likely don’t care what option they pick so long as it works. The mind game is broken, we are now just guessing.

TAC’s need to accept the trade off that you broke the combo and the swap out and immediate perk should be more than enough with a small ender after wards to wrap it up. This means the up and down need to be reevaluated. Down should provide more meter or something related, and up needs a whole new perk added to it. Perks that would create a solid mind game of utility between the 3 are: regen red health, dmg or speed buff after the combo ends, snap back, debuff to opponent such as slow, etc… So rather than be about guessing it becomes more about locking out the option you dont want your opponent to get. This also means the combo following should be very limited as the rewards are already justified for the attempt.

Unblockable/inescapable vortexes - This is a gray area, sometimes this is justified by needing a very specific team that can fall apart to make it a risk/reward, but sometimes they can cheat the game and win the whole match. This is mostly still in relation to incoming, but beyond the initial incoming attempt there’s some dirty vortexes that can repeat to get easy TODs and too many free set ups. There should be unblockables indeed, but in terms of free setups they simply just need to be looked at. Being hit by an unblockable should come at the price of doing something wrong in the neutral game to get set up.

**SOMETHING TO REMEMBER **- The FGC adopts a wonderful concept of “adapt, don’t nerf”. However I feel this is a philosophy that makes a better player, not a better game. At the end of the day you need to ask, does current tech add depth? Or invalidate options and make it more shallow? Buffs can fix neutral game and output issues, but sometimes rewards and options are too strong with disregard to what the other player can do. I see UMvC3 as intensely over buffed. Giving you tools to fight zero or vergil doesn’t change the fact they output way too much damage and gain too much reward once you are hit or blocking. Basically it’s like firing at the hip with bazookas right now. We need to see neutral game options become more prevalent and free kills and set ups become more justified. I think it’s fair to say that sometimes the character makes a bigger difference than the player more often than it should.

  1. Keep the concept of TAC infinites the same, but just make it so after a certain number of hits you are forced to break.

  2. Once you kill a character with X factor, make it so that it only lasts 5 more marvel seconds from the point when the next character comes in, regardless of what level. Also tweak some of the damage boosts that some characters get get, but keep the speed boosts.

  3. Reduce Zero and Vergil’s Minimum scaling so that loops are still possible but meter positive TODs are not.

  4. Reduce durability on Vergil’s Spiral swords.

  5. Reduce Morrigan’s fireball damage by a bit.

  6. Make it so you can see where hidden missiles are going to land.

  7. Give Dante st.l back.

There are other things that are annoying but not really dominating to the point where I’d say nerf it.

Also please restore original victory theme. The new one sucks a lot of ass.

oops, my bad preppy. forgot this thread was here. repost.

personally, i think a lot of problems can be solved by simply making a few system tweaks.

  1. how do people feel about empty meter building?

  2. i think something needs to be done about aircombos not causing flying screen unless they are initiated by S. currently, some characters are without adequate tools when they’re at superjump height (i.e. ghostrider, ironfist). those characters can easily be given tools to fill in that gap, but i feel a system tweak in addition to new tools would add more overall depth to the game. a new system could be introduced similar to mvc2’s where a certain number of sj air attacks (ex 4 or more) that end with a flying screen activator cause flying screen, but any number of hits less than that amount (ex 3 or less) won’t, even if the combo ends with a flying screen activator. so as an example, if sentinel does sj.MMHS, it’ll cause flying screen, but if he does sj.MHS, it’ll cause groundbounce instead. keep in mind, these are for NON-S-INITIATED AIRCOMBOS. aircombos (and exchanges) initiated with S follow the same rules as they do now.

  3. also, in umvc3, if you launch your opponent while they are above you, your followup superjump may not have enough vertical trajectory to do a full aircombo. in mvc1, iirc, if this same thing happened, the game would allow you to superjump higher than usual so you were able to perform a full aircombo series. something like this could be added to umvc3.

  4. i personally don’t have a problem with air exchanges pausing hitstun, but tac infinites should obviously go.

  5. air exchange color coding improved. we all know how.

  6. in addition to that, i’ve been thinking about how exchanges could be reworked considering people don’t like the way they are currently. maybe down exchange remains the same in regard to gaining 1 meter, but at the expense that if your opponent successfully guesses/reacts right, their character gains the opportunity to combo you back a la pre-release mvc3. side exchange remains the same, deducting a meter from your opponent, no free combo for your opponent for successfully escaping. up exchange…i don’t know yet.

  7. vanilla lifebar HUD, with ultimate xfactor icon. perhaps also, each team glowing a different color when their respective xfactors are active. this way, mirror matches are a little easier to discern from one another when both players have xfactor in play.

i have some other ideas for new alternates and new moves as well, but i’ll leave this as is for now.

Here’s a few ideas I came up with. Granted, I was thinking of a possible sequel when I wrote these, so take these with a grain of salt.

General changes

[details=Spoiler] Arcade mode: Boss Rush mode (details later)
Time Attack Mode
MVC1 mode and MSH mode

VS mode: Vs. Com mode & Com Vs. Com mode
MVC1 mode and MSH mode

Training mode: Hitbox display from Vita version
Meter gain displayed in data

Mission mode: Customizable missions for each character
Tutorials for each character

Heroes and Heralds: Retool or adjust card effects
Add offline vs mode

Online mode: Improve Netcode
Tournament Mode

Gallery: Add intros from previous game and extended intro

Options: More customizable Music options

System Changes

General: Forced states no longer reset the amount of Ground or Wallbounces
Hitboxes and Hurtboxes readjusted (character specific)
Attacks give 25% of normal meter gain on activation
(character specific) All install hypers cost 2 meters and restrict meter gain on hit.
All assists become forced states
(Wallbounces always wallbonuce, etc.)

TACs: TACs have priority over another (Down>Up, Side>Down, Up>Side)
Sucessfully beating the opponent’s TAC creates a forced state that can be comboed off of.
Hitstun Scaling is no longer infinite. It instead resets to the minimum, and increases faster.
Up TAC removes 50% red life
Recovery from whiffed TACs increased to 15 frames and can’t be effectively XFC

X-factor: X-Factor strength and speed boosts remain static across all stages
of XF1
X-Factor strength and speed boosts readjusted
(Suggest XF2 strength, XF3 speed)
Remove health regen, increased damage scaling, chip resistance.
New types of X-factor with specific boosts
Examples: Double minimum damage scaling
Damage recieved is reduced by 50%
X-Factor speed boost is doubled (20% becomes 40%)
Increase minimum hitstun scaling
Regen Health
Gain a set amount of meter
Character-specific bonus to X-factor based on character style and gameplan (Think MSH gem’s SP powers)

Possible New characters:
Marvel: Thanos(boss mode), Onslaught(boss mode), Apocalypse(boss mode), Sliver Samurai, Black Panther, War Machine
Capcom: Pyron(boss mode), Seth of Gill(boss mode), Sigma(boss mode), Jin Saotome, Gene, Edward Fokker [/spoiler}

re-post from other site:

"so i will make some points that must be addressed about Thor:

proposed buffs

  • mighty thunder is useless. Give mighty thunder some pushback and decrease the double startup time. Also, decrease minus frames disadvantage on block
  • make mighty tornado slightly less punishable on block
  • make mighty punish an air-ok hyper if possible
  • make mighty speech dash cancellable, or cancellable in some way. That or decrease the high recovery time
  • improve his cr.H, s.H and j.H hitboxes and/or startup and recovery frames. make s.M less punishable on block.
  • increase the spark L/M/H hitbox size right below/in front of Thor so that it doesnt miss on Morrigan/Frank/Amaterasu
  • make mighty smash L 0 on block
  • if possible, give Thor the ****ing hammer throw move from the comics, probably at the cost of his hammer normals range and hammer specials for a brief amount of time
  • slightly increase startup of spark L and M so that it doesnt completely lose to disruptor, hawkeye arrows and psionic blast in the ground
  • increase spark L soft knockdown hit-box area so that it can be more reliable to go for spark L relaunches (this must be a direct consequence of making spark L not whiff on morri, ammy and frank though)
  • make air strike H an OTG or make his regular air-grab to cause more hard knockdown time so that Thor can follow up it in some way (or make it linkable with air-dash down mighty thunder at least). Not fair that Nova can test all his normals then follow up an air grab with one of his two instant OTGs, or that Dormammu and Dr Doom can easily follow up regular air-grab, but Thor can’t in some way.
  • make mighty hurricane L and M active frames to be 2 as the H hurricane is.
  • make cr.M faster so that it can be used how its supposed, as an anti-air
  • if possible slightly tweak forward dash so that it can make Thor move faster in rushdown
  • increase mighty punish knockdown time

nerfs

  • slightly decrease the fixed damage output of spark M and H (assuming some characters like Zero and Hulk get the same treatment)
  • take out TAC infinite
  • nerf dormammu and doctor doom in some way

system changes

  • make regular grabs a 2 or 3 frames thing, this way command grabs can compete with the braindead mashing forward + H
  • take out the command grab vs regular grab negation glitch. Give priority to the command grab over 1 frame snapback and regular grab so that Hulk f+s.H dont completely beat Thor mighty hurricane H
  • take out the df + H divekick + air-grab option select, its dumb

those are proposed changes, of course im not hoping that everything will be addressed, but if only 1 of those changes go in it will be ok for Thor.

I would like to see meter gain doubled, maximum meters doubled to 10, and costs of supers (and their effects) adjusted to Lv1, Lv2, Lv3, and Lv5.

Storm has three supers that all cost one meter, and as a result her Lightning super goes virtually unused because the meter is considered better spent on Elemental Fury or Hail Storm. By expanding it to 1, 2, 3, or 5 meters, this allows for more freedom in balancing the supers - a super can be blatantly better or worse than the rest, but now has a higher or lower meter cost to compensate.