UMvC3 version 2013: The feedback thread

[WorstPlayer]

Modok needs to do more damage per hi

The hit bubble issue isn’t really a problem IMO other than the fact that the bubble are way larger than the characters and their attacks. They could be squares, triangles, ovals whatever. The problem is Capcom for whatever reason made the bubbles considerably larger than the characters/objects themselves. Why? Cuz Marvel I guess.

Pandora is just a really super situational mechanic in general. I doubt it’ll see a ton of use in tourney play for a long time.

I do agree on the fact that a lot of the bubbles are far lager than they are and things that look like they shouldn’t have a hitbox do. For example, why is Wolverine’s standing H hit boxes RE active for a short time and only hit a small area in front of him, yet Vergil’s standing H extends to a good bit behind him and takes up near enough the full screen in front of him.

Capcom never has been fantastic at balance but so long and derp stupid stuff like this is fixed and un-viable characters are made more viable through small tweaks then I’ll buy another disk of Marvel 3.

You guys do know how much stuff like this cost to do this, something in the region of $1,000,000 was spent on each character in each update of SF4 with while also updating the present cast each time ($10,000 just going to Microsoft cause Microsoft love to charge people to simply patch a game more than once, yeah thanks) and cause the cast in MvC3 is huge I’m pretty sure Capcom had to put a lot of money into updating Vanilla to Ultimate.

So I do find it funny when people think another $40 for an update to a fighting game is ridiculous when most will spend three times that on a new stick or will buy the yearly CoD Update.

1,000,000 where did you find this out?

Each new character added to each version of Street Fighter 4 cost in the region of $1Mill, cause they were built from the ground up and with stuff like hit box contracting, making good quality 3D models, adjusting the existing cast. The people who made Skullgirls needed $150,000 just to make 1 character for a 2D fighter, so with all this stuff that needs to be done to create brands new 3D characters, balance the game to make the new characters work with the current cast and I’m certain the costs go up with no doubt the increased numbers of staff Capcom have to pay.

I don’t see it as unreasonable and I feel it justifies Capcom doing the updates as they did in the past by manufacturing disks to minimize the loss from doing each update.

I question wasn’t how are you justifying it’s where did you get the figures from.

[WorstPlayer]

Alright, so I ran through the whole cast, compiled my ideas and checked out this thread for a bit(so quite a few of these ideas may seem borrowed from comments mentioned earlier in the thread), to see what I could come up with as a full changelist, and I’d say I’m pretty darn happy with these results, although I suppose a few more adjustments could be in order outside of this. I looked to buff more than I did nerf, but of course there are a few characters that still needed a hammer to the face, so… Suffice to say, though, if Marvel were to take on all these changes, we’d have a damn good game on our hands, for sure.

Gameplay Changes

Gameplay Changes

[details=Spoiler]- Reduce and normalize X-Factor time for the entire cast to 16/14/12 seconds(note that the time REDUCES as the level of X-Factor increases)

• Remove the 1P only infinites(do not allow blockstun to return the ability to call assists, for example)
• Remove the TAC infinites(add entering a jump state as one of the triggers for reactivating the hitstun, for example)
• TACs can be reacted to more easily(although you still must guess the direction successfully)
• Successfully countering a TAC rewards you with a TAC(Beta Marvel status)
• Side TAC results in the opponent losing half a meter, instead of a full meter
• All hitboxes need to be adjusted so nonsense like getting hit with Vergil’s coattails on Helmet Breaker, getting shat on by Dr. Doom’s ass on Foot Dive etc. doesn’t happen. Hitboxes need to be made way more intuitive
• Meter gain slightly reduced across the board[/details]

Capcom Cast

Capcom Cast

[details=Spoiler]Akuma:

• Minimum Damage Scaling on Specials: 20% --> 25%
• Ashura Senku cancellable into Normals a few frames before the move ends

Amaterasu:

• Glaive Chop not affected by hitstun scaling

Arthur:

• Fire Bottle Toss adjusted to combo normally while in Gold Armor
• King’s Armor dash capable
• King’s Armor break: Invincible Soft Knockdown

• Slight speed reduction while in X-Factor

C. Viper:
No changes

Chris:

• All hits of Sweep Combo properly hit Spider-Man
• Grenade Tosses Air OK
• Air Forward Heavy: Forward Gunshot
• All Gun Fire specials shoot forward if button is tapped once, angled(up on ground, down in air) if button is held down

Chun Li:

• Minimum Damage Scaling on Specials: 20% --> 25%
• Less recovery time, more durability on Kikoken
• Yosokyaku not affected by hitstun scaling
• Backwards airdash enabled

Dante:
No changes

Felicia:
No changes

Firebrand:

• Dark Fire properly gets maximum hits even at a distance
• Increase time on Chaos Tide
• More hitstun on Hell Spitfire H, but still affected by hitstun scaling

Frank West:

• Slight health increase at Level 3, carries into Level 4 and stacks with Level 5

Haggar:

• Double Lariat assist has more invincibility on use(more than Ultimate, but less than Vanilla)
• Rapid Fire Fist properly gets all hits vs. airborne opponents
• Giant Haggar Press gains invincibility on startup

Hsien-Ko:

• Tenrai Ha receives Forced Ground Bounce property
• Anki Hou has slightly less startup time
• Senpu Bu normal cancellable at bottom of swing arc, keeps momentum
• Walk speed and airdash speed slightly increased
• Grounded forward dash invincibility slightly increased
• Crouching H OTG and Soft Knockdown vs floored opponent, can be cancelled into S and specials like normal but comboing is not possible w/o an assist, like Wolverine’s Slide

Jill:
No changes

Morrigan:

• Dark Harmonizer assist gets slightly more vulnerability

• Shadow Blade assist has slight invincibility

• Astral Vision meter gain reduced to 33%
• Chip damage on Soul Fist slightly reduced

Nemesis T-Type:

• Rocket Launcher startup time reduced
• Fatal Mutation frame 0 at point blank, not so at any other range, similar to Raging Demon

Phoenix Wright:

• Evidence gathering success rate increased
• Maya shield slightly increased durability
• Turnabout Mode Crouching H hits low
• Turnabout Mode Press the Witness assist gains super armor

Ryu:

• Shin Hadoken: Damage 20000x25 --> 21500x25
• Shin Tatsumaki Senpukyakyu OTGs
• Crouching H jump cancellable

Spencer:

• Remove the 20k/80k glitches(unless intended by devs, if so do not remove)

Strider Hiryu:

• Minimum Damage Scaling on Normals: 3% --> 5%
• Minimum Damage Scaling on Specials: 7% --> 10%

Trish:

• Trick “Hopscotch” OTGs
• Trick “Peekaboo” gains usable hitstun even late into a combo

• Trick “Peekaboo” > Trick “Peekaboo” fails to cause any hitstun(this is necessary to accomodate Peekaboo gaining any hitstun)

• Hitstun scaling made slightly more lenient across the board

Tron Bonne:

• Hitstun on Bandit Boulder modified so all hits connect, even late into a combo
• Servbot Takeout X-Factor cancellable on block or whiff

Vergil:

• All “Swords” hypers become the Level 2 DP motion, hold L/M/H during hyper freeze to choose which version(Sprial Swords, Blistering Swords, Sword Storm) becomes active
• Rapid Slash startup slightly(and I mean REALLY SLIGHTLY) increased, hitbox adjusted so whiffing at point blank is more possible
• X-Factor power and speed boost slightly reduced across the board
• Remove Round Trip glitch

Viewtiful Joe:

• Excellent Knuckle Punch animation made into something more noticeable

Wesker:

• Rhino Charge invincible on startup
• Special counters have more active frames
• Down Down Heavy command added to remove shades

Zero:

• Remove Hyper Zero Buster cancelling[/details]

Marvel Cast

Marvel Cast

[details=Spoiler]Captain America:
No changes

Deadpool:

• Cuttin’ Time does actual damage at minimum scaling
• Chimichangas!! window increased

Doctor Doom(and I main this guy so don’t say I’m complaining about him >__>):

• Hidden Missiles assist(on point version unaffected) disappear when Doctor Doom is hit, Doom throws only 4 missiles to compensate and reduce exposure time
• Crouching L cannot Rapid Fire

Doctor Strange:
No changes

Dormammu:
No changes

Ghost Rider:

• Chip damage on all Chain attacks

Hawkeye:

• Increase damage on normals

• Reduce X-Factor speed and power slightly

Hulk:
No changes

Iron Fist:

• Crouching Light and Medium hit low
• S can hit aerial opponents, but has an extremely low hitbox

Iron Man:

• Enable wavedash
• Increase airdash mobility
• Improve hitbox of S so it can connect off a standing series

Magneto:

• Crouching L cannot Rapid Fire

MODOK:

• Killer Illumination frame 0 at point blank, not so at any other range, similar to Raging Demon

Nova:

• Remove DHC glitch on Human Rocket

Phoenix:
No changes

Rocket Raccoon:
No changes

Sentinel:

• Health increased to 1.05 million
• All hits of Hard Drive connect properly

She Hulk:

• Increase distance of Crouching H slide

Shuma-Gorath

• Unsure on how to change, but make it semi-easier for him to get the first hit

Spider-Man

• Hitstun scaling made slightly more lenient across the board
• Spider Bite window increased
• Vitality: 900000 --> 950000

Storm

• Minimum Damage Scaling on Specials: 10% --> 15%
• Double Typhoon startup decreased

Super Skrull
No changes

Taskmaster
No changes

Thor

• Hitstun scaling made slightly more lenient across the board
• Mighty Spark startup slightly reduced
• Mighty Smash H charge time reduced

Wolverine
No changes

X-23

• Two Talon Attacks per air, but not one right after the other(enabling Talon Attack > Crescent Scythe > Talon Attack, for example)[/details]

Features and Additions

Features and Additions

[details=Spoiler]- Add a replay mode

• Add a hitbox mode to Training mode
• Improve netcode
• Add Vanilla Marvel’s menus(main menu, character select screen) as options
• Let’s see a few new stages and characters, of course!
• Add these cinematic movies somewhere within the game!
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ni9L4_zKNrM
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgvguJJ8Ajw
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doarx57Leyg
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UD6Qrxe7jS4
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9OqbiRLaho[/details]

I’m gonna hang on to this list for now, and see if I can’t change it as this thread progresses, to make the ultimate perfect changelog for this game.

If you don’t have anything good to say, don’t say anything at all. Guess they should change this to if you don’t have anything good to type.

[JohnNumbers]

Oh ok…

T___T

brb being the worst human being ever to exist

[ThePhoenixWylde]

Don’t listen to the guy. The only things I would say is that, “Successfully countering a TAC rewards you with a TAC(Beta Marvel status)” I think this could just result in TAC after TAC if people keep countering. The benefit from guessing right when being TAC’d is okay, maybe more damage from the break and the ability to do a combo, say the guy who got broke enters a hard knockdown full screen. I would think only people with full screen levels 3s like Mag, Dorm, Arthur and such would be able to punish.

Then maybe say X-23 to 850,000 and then Zero to 800,000 and same goes for Vergil. If Akuma gets dropped from 800 to 750 then a slight heath decrease for Vergil and Zero should help balance.

Though No.1 priority for Capcom is there is Ultimate Marvel versus Capcom 3 Arcade Edition then they do need to fix the really unnecessarily large and over compensating nature of the hit boxes.

Look at this, it’s old from last years Revelation but how on earth does Phoenix’s standing L hit this much?

Then I would like to see tweaks to character hurt-boxes for characters to be tighter cause I think Ultimate is too vague and overly compensated too much to allow for overly silly combos.

Then maybe Brady games with their next guide will be able to show pics of the attacks and versions showing hit boxes.

[DevilJin_01]

Yeah I still think the hit bubbles are the number one issue with the game and were basically created the way they were on purpose to ensure that newer players could get consistent combos without having to worry about spacingm weight or specific normal usage during the combo.

[ThePhoenixWylde]

Unfortunately it just leads to the stuff being abused at high level play and makes the game lose credibility for being so silly at times. I’m speaking from the side of being new to the games cause I only really got into fighters properly with Vanilla and yeah the over compensating helps at first but then it becomes annoying when you lose to it online cause some crazy rubbish only hits cause the hit box issues.

[_Insert_Name_Here]

Though No.1 priority for Capcom is there is Ultimate Marvel versus Capcom 3 Arcade Edition then they do need to fix the really unnecessarily large and over compensating nature of the hit boxes.

Look at this, it’s old from last years Revelation but how on earth does Phoenix’s standing L hit this much?

Dunno, I feel like the image is taken out of context. It looks weird because Sent’s hitstun animation looks so far away from the actual hit. Can I get a video?

• Successfully countering a TAC rewards you with a TAC(Beta Marvel status)

Forcing the player to switch their character when they don’t want to is a bad idea. Didn’t read the others, this one just stood out to me.

[otter]

[quote=<Insert Name Here>;8034004]

• Successfully countering a TAC rewards you with a TAC(Beta Marvel status)

Forcing the player to switch their character when they don’t want to is a bad idea. Didn’t read the others, this one just stood out to me.

not to mention that it would essentially remove TACs from the game. the player that earned a hit loses their potential combo AND a character!? there is literally no situation where that would be worth trying.

[ThePhoenixWylde]

Though No.1 priority for Capcom is there is Ultimate Marvel versus Capcom 3 Arcade Edition then they do need to fix the really unnecessarily large and over compensating nature of the hit boxes.

Look at this, it’s old from last years Revelation but how on earth does Phoenix’s standing L hit this much?

Dunno, I feel like the image is taken out of context. It looks weird because Sent’s hitstun animation looks so far away from the actual hit. Can I get a video?

It’s during the UMvC3 Revelations Singles Part 2, where the Assist Me crew are on commentary. It’s a hitstun animation so Sent has moved to the right but the fact is, Phoenix slaps her hand about in front of her with her standing light and she’s looking the other way, yet Sent is above her head at the time she is doing her standing light manages to get hit. This is a rather tame example, Vergil, Magneto and Doom love to show off the really silly hitboxes off.

[JuuM]

It’s probably a display bug during cross ups, where the model and hit box is facing in opposite ways.

[DevilJin_01]

hidden missiles is the most exposed assist in the game. super xfc super. rinse repeat and done. morrigan is by far thr best character in the game. dark harmonizer needs to be out longer or more vulnerable. everything about the character is op. air b
fireball followed by air dash not only takes off a lot of damage, but is almost completely safe. it is on the same level as shin akumas double air fireballs from alpha three. marvel at its current stage can be summed up like this

morrigan/insert character/PHOENIX
point character/morrigan/phoenix
really if youbwant to win easily pick it. its like fighting fucking cable without him using bars for ahvb and e with a god mode contigency plan in the form of five easily gainable bars.

Nope. No.

[JohnNumbers]

Well, the reason I suggest countering a TAC = you get a TAC is due to that fact that, in most cases, when a TAC occurs, you’ll be the one in the corner when it happens, meaning that your swapped in character is going to come flying out of the corner and the combo will proceed to become one that’s moving away from the corner(or in the case of side TAC, a combo that starts quite a distance away from the wall, but moving toward the wall), which would be quite more difficult to get a full combo off of, especially if TAC infinites will theoretically be removed too. If we were to add damage scaling and some HSD(for after the TAC counter combo concludes), I think it’d be pretty legit, to be sure.

I’d be down for making a TAC counter be like, a lump sum of 100000 damage or some actual noticeable damage, though

[WorstPlayer]

Don’t listen to the guy. The only things I would say is that, “Successfully countering a TAC rewards you with a TAC(Beta Marvel status)” I think this could just result in TAC after TAC if people keep countering. The benefit from guessing right when being TAC’d is okay, maybe more damage from the break and the ability to do a combo, say the guy who got broke enters a hard knockdown full screen. I would think only people with full screen levels 3s like Mag, Dorm, Arthur and such would be able to punish.

Then maybe say X-23 to 850,000 and then Zero to 800,000 and same goes for Vergil. If Akuma gets dropped from 800 to 750 then a slight heath decrease for Vergil and Zero should help balance.

Though No.1 priority for Capcom is there is Ultimate Marvel versus Capcom 3 Arcade Edition then they do need to fix the really unnecessarily large and over compensating nature of the hit boxes.

Look at this, it’s old from last years Revelation but how on earth does Phoenix’s standing L hit this much?

http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s493/EthanBass/Bullshithitboxes_zps248e699d.jpg

Then I would like to see tweaks to character hurt-boxes for characters to be tighter cause I think Ultimate is too vague and overly compensated too much to allow for overly silly combos.

Then maybe Brady games with their next guide will be able to show pics of the attacks and versions showing hit boxes.

True dont listen to me. Just read what I wrote and take heed.

You buff the living shit out of Chris, give nothing to MODOK. Do nothing with Rocket, Nemesis, Captain America. Buff Hawkeye? Why? Chip on Ghost riders chains? Your basically making some characters more irrelevant than they already are. (see bigs) If Chris had those buffs say goodbye to anyones zoning besides him seriously. Theres a reason why some characters have limited directions on projectiles.

[The_Co-Jones]

The best fixes for Sentinel:

• Health Increase to 1,050,000
• Hard Drive pulls the opponent into its active hitbox to ensure all hits hit accordingly
• Rocket Punch Hit stun increased for all variation except Grounded Rocket Punch L (increase hit stun to Vanilla levels)
• Minimum damage scaling for specials increased to 15% (up from 10%)
• Flight Mode has decreased start up to 12 frames (down from 17 frames)
• Air Rocket Punch can be flight canceled
• Sentinel Force L and M drones do not go away if Sentinel is hit
• Sentinel assist (All variations) now have 1 hit of super armor
• Air M and air H now do damage to the opponent on block (chip damage is set to 5% of moves base damage)
• Human Catapult (all version) now have 32 frames of recovery (change from 41/39/35)
• Decreased start-up on Human Catapult: becomes 1/3/5 (change from 2/6/10)
• Air S gains hard knockdown properties if ground bounce is already used

[JohnNumbers]

See well those were the sorts of comments I was fishing for, instead of ‘goddamn it you suck numbers’ ;))

I do agree though, after giving it a second look, the balance of changes for characters is a bit out of whack, but that’s why I planned on doing it right and revising it based on comments and stuff in this thread.

Also, I apologize for whatever crack I was smoking to suggest Hawkeye should get any buffs…

If we’re giving Chris angled gunshots, then it would probably be too much to give him air OK grenades… so that makes enough sense.
I think Rocket and Cap are good enough as they are, but what would you suggest as buffs for them? And for MODOK and Nemesis?
And as far as Ghost Rider, I’m not saying give his chain super godly XL chip damage, I’m talking just a minor amount(500 - 2000?), enough to put pressure on the opponent to incentivize them to approach, for example.

Is there anything else you’d want to suggest?

[_Insert_Name_Here]

Well, the reason I suggest countering a TAC = you get a TAC is due to that fact that, in most cases, when a TAC occurs, you’ll be the one in the corner when it happens, meaning that your swapped in character is going to come flying out of the corner and the combo will proceed to become one that’s moving away from the corner(or in the case of side TAC, a combo that starts quite a distance away from the wall, but moving toward the wall), which would be quite more difficult to get a full combo off of, especially if TAC infinites will theoretically be removed too. If we were to add damage scaling and some HSD(for after the TAC counter combo concludes), I think it’d be pretty legit, to be sure.

Still, though, you are forcing a switch in team order (something that matters more than some might think), as well as possibly forcing a character with no real TACs to perform an un-optimal combo. I don’t like that.

[YawDan]

I don’t think Ghost Rider’s normals chains should chip. He’d be getting free damage against characters that can’t don’t have the mobility to avoid them or counter, them such as She-Hulk, Iron Fist, Hulk, Haggar etc. His biggest weakness seems to be openness to tracking teleports i.e. Vergils, and unfortunately there aren’t many assists that can help him deal with his problems. I think the best buff he could get would be to nerf other characters in the game to increase his viability lol.

I would have wanted his light and medium normals to start up faster, or for him to get improve recovering overall, but I don’t want him to get exaggerated adjustments, as I feel he has got his uses and good match-ups. But he seems to suffer from perception more than anything else.

I don’t think Captain America needs any buffs. I think he is as balanced as he could be now with the changes made from Vanilla to Ultimate. Though if I were to force myself to think of an adjustment to him, I’d like his light shield slash to always guarantee an OTG just for consistency. And I’d like there to be more assists that covered his hard charging star, as there only a couple of assists that do, and I have to deal with MorriDoom.

[NMumw1017]

I don’t see how allowing Trish’s hopscotch to OTG would be useful for her. I think it’s too slow to combo off of unless they made it normal cancellable. I think the better option would be to make crM or crH her OTG. I love the idea of peekaboo having more hit stun though.

[WorstPlayer]

Ghost Rider buffs?

• No chip damage
• New anti air move allah his spinning chain super but has to be manually spun.
• Hellfire now sends small flame carpet traveling across the screen.

There’s a lot of posts with excellent tweaks to the other characters, the goal imo is not
only to make the characters balanced but a genuine threat with their particular skill set without
taking another characters nitch completely away.

Real quick:

Rocket Raccoon: Rocket Skates normal cancellable, traps stay if he’s hit, small hit box stays small (and doesn’t grow exponentially once he’s hit.)
trap drop when in (tails mode), jumping S can be held like cables grenades to delay explosions.

Nemesis: No damage scaling on tentacle grabs, deadly reach can hit throw into grab, New Omega Red esque d+S, tentacle that hit throws into a grab, 0 Frame level 3. Hyper Armored command Dash (special cancellable), Standing S now OTG’s.

MODOK: Jamming Bomb air Okay, Shields air Okay, Shield is now a button charge special. S. Shield can block 1 hit hypers, air restriction lifted on HBR. Stackable analyze cubes past 9. Analyze cube on hit +1. S analyze cube = full screen distance. S psionic blaster causes stun.

Shuma: Add teleport, increased damage on Chaos Dimension, Eyeball explosion causes hard knockdown. Button charge phase out ability eats super meter quickly, leaves him invulnerable and can move freely.

Captain America: For Freedom! Alex stomp hits mid alla SF4 Alex, Fall in, running command grab, (last throw of his level three)

Strange: Air dash in flight mode only. Bolts Air okay. Spiral esque ground return (non attack)

Task Master: Faster Sword Master swing. Higher Damage on successful counter attacks. Upped damage on super counter attack.

Deadpool: Can block after ninja gifts, any special can be cancelled into ninja gifts.

Okay done dreaming…and breaking the game…

[ironboy89]

What needs to be change.

1. X-Factor speed, damage boost. They unbalanced, they are the reason why XF3 Vergil, Vanilla Phoenix is stupid.
2. Hitboxes. How come Eighting never fixed this problem since…TVC?
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBTdJRtSbRY
3. Netcode. Fix it. It sucks.
4. Wacky Hard knockdown confirms or long ass OTG.
5. TACs, they break HSD in half.
6. The Vita features in a console, so people can see the damn hit-boxes.