Raoh: I’m pretty sure I know what you’re talking about, but this is the problem that I was talking about- when your c.H is push blocked, Spidey gets pushed far back, so two things happen to his standing zip:
It takes longer for the zip line to touch the camera corner
The zipline hits the corner at a higher spot, so Spidey flies a lot higher
The combined effect is that the time spidey reaches the opponent, he’s recovered from the assist block stun and can just chicken block whatever Spidey does next.
Give this a shot and let me know what you think about it. I think it does better against push blocks (i’m trying it now with Arthur daggers)
J.H/S (off a zip or air dash) + call Assist> dash in> stand zip
Similar to c. H.+assist xx ground zip, except you get to nullify any push blocks with a dash and keep Spidey close to camera corner. The assist keeps the dash safe.
If they always push block on the last hit of the string, just call the assist earlier or mix it up with web ball. If they pushblock before web ball, you get a safe zip cancel covered with assist for continued pressure. As of what you mentioned, I’ve been doing that already but get mixed results with triple arrows; whiff crosses sometimes. It may be caused by the zoomed out camera view.
For tk swings, I think it’s better to just do sj IAD :s: instead. You get a longer combo on hit and you don’t risk getting air grabbed if you miss the tk input by a few frames and get a whiffed swing. Though the range is a bit short, if the opponent doesn’t pushblock your first jump attack, you can do the sj IAD :s: (or :h: for range) as soon as you land for something like a bootleg Nova, Mag, IM tri-jump pressure.
I was using :l: since it’s the easiest to confirm off and is fastest. The point of tk’ing over IAD is the ability to have a “ground” overhead. Obviously it works a lot better when you have lock down of some sort but being able to dash and do it as well is just as important. For a character who is all highs and very few lows this could at least help him more than his other overheads as everything else has something in between the overhead pretty much telegraphing its coming. It’s not like he has fast startup on dash zip or spider sting
I know this probably won’t contribute much to this thread, but after practicing for a day or two, I opened someone up by dashing in and doing a TK web swing earlier today. I gotta admit, it’s easier/more useful than I thought it would be. Even though I only did it once, the guy I was playing was doing a pretty good job of blocking my overheads, so it’s definitely a more solid mixup than Spidey’s other overheads. Like xero already said, it’s a good mixup because it seems like spider-man is on the ground until he actually hits the opponent. It works in kinda the same way that standing lows might open someone up. When the opponent sees that skull or morrigan is standing, they might not think that a low will be coming. TK web swing is the opposite though, when the opponent sees spider-man doing a ground dash, they might be expecting lows.
That’s some good shit, but you would be sacrificing more damage in combos if you had plasma beam. I think it depends on the other assist that you have. For example, I personally think that beam is better suited for my Spidey/Doom/Strider team because Vajra covers the vertical space anyway, but with Spidey/Mags/Doom I use missiles because Magneto can cover horizontally but not vertically with EM disruptor.
For your team, if you have triple arrow then I think it would be better to have missiles. You would get a nice setup but you wouldnt have any assists for combo extension. On the other hand, you could use poison tip instead of triple arrow though. The only thing is, if Doom is in with hawkeye as the assist, poison tip isn’t going to help him as much as triple arrow when getting in. You probably know better than me about hawkeye, but I would think that hidden missiles would be a better assist for him when zoning.
My main assist are triple and missiles because of the oppressive Hawkeye + missiles synergy and my missile cross tech but because of this discovery, I’m leaning towards using beam. If I happen to switch to beam, I’d change to scattershot assist and look for combos using that instead. I’d also switch Doom and Hawk’s placing so that I get TAC infinites and Doom with scattershot assist (better than Hawk+plasma imo).
Plasma beam allows for overheads and overhead crossups. If your opponent starts to block the overhead by stand blocking, you can just wait for Spidey to hit his body and drop for a quick low or even a quick same sided overhead j.:l:, land to tk swing, all while he’s getting fuzzied by the beam. With the right camera end distance, you can cross up with any input [j. (:l://:h:/:s:)] after the zip drop cross up. Depending on where you hit the c.:h: hitbox, the camera end and the time you get pushblocked, you will get different results which are all in your favor because pressure and momentum is kept and hits can easily be confirmed by either :l: or c.. Afaik, if your jump attacks are pushblocked (air dash + or zip +), you can still hit with the tip of c.:h: for the setup; I think there’s also time to dash in for some timing change.
I told you :lol: I went and pulled the numbers last night. It’s the second fastest overhead in the game if you learn to do it properly. Three frames slower than V. Joe’s (13 frames) and four or five frames faster than the average overhead others have with the next fastest one being 21 frames (Spencer’s overhead). That’s already calculating the jump frames and the 12 frames of startup from web swing putting it at 16 frames.
I agree that Doom would be better second because you have access to his TAC infinites. Also, I think hawkeye would be a better anchor than Doom but you probably know more than me on that topic. The setup with plasma beam would be really nice though because plasma beam has a lot of active frames so it keeps them locked down for longer. I’m just wondering, have you tested the setup against a dummy that is set to advancing guard? It would interesting to see how the set up would deal with pushblocking. Like you said, it probably wouldn’t stop your forward momentum long enough so that you can’t still mix them up.
Second fastest overhead in the game? Damn, that’s faster than I thought. I think it could be especially useful in staredowns, where you can take the risk of calling an assist, making them block a couple cr.:l:, dash up, and do a jump cancelled :l: web swing for a full combo. It is still useful from midscreen when you are about a dash away and the opponent is grounded though, you don’t need an assist there backing you up.
Some other tech that I think we should be looking for (that Raoh mentioned in the original post) is superjump confirms. More specifically, superjump confirms from neutral superjumps. Reliable superjump confirms seems like a big part of spidey that is missing. When certain characters go to superjump height, it sometimes feels like all you can do is try to cross them up when they land or throw out some web throw and hope it hits them. The S.J. confirms that we already have now are really nice, its just that sometimes you might be too close to them horizontally, so you jump passed them in the middle of the combo. I think that neutral sj. confirms might require you to save your air dash and maybe web zip, and I think :h: web swing might be involved. Those are just ideas of what it might look like though.
Ummm sj:h: xx :h: web swing solves the neutral jump issue. Sj:h: delay j:s: j:m: xx web zip j:s: works when jumping towards the opponent. Sj confirms have been solved they just aren’t as easy peasy as people want them to be but they are still reliable.
Lol, pulling the numbers a.k.a. making someone whose trying to go to sleep at 4 a.m. look it up for you while you go to class.
I wouldn’t think of it as the second fastest overhead in the game, since it doesn’t consider things suchs as tri-dashes and other various instant overheads (IAD j.:l: with Logan, Spidey, etc.). However, 16 frame startup is really freakin’ fast, and proficient execution makes this thing look quick as hell when it’s integrated into a fluid blockstring. I think I was breaking 830k for 1 bar using my team (Spidey/Dorm/Akuma) off of a TK’d :l: Web Swing, although I should be able to break 900k if I end the Dark Hole extension going into Spider Sting->web throw link->raw tag-> :h: Purification xx Chaotic Flame.
In other words, TK Web Swing is pretty much the slowest “fast-as-hell” overhead that can still turn into hefty damage.
Well considering all jump attacks are overheads then I wouldn’t necessarily add those in the listing but technically you are right. I was more so grouping overheads together as being able to be done from a standing position but technically you do jump but all the same you get what the hell I was talking about.
When compared to other characters with overheads, excluding jump attacks, it is the second fastest. Only thing about it is it whiffs on short people and requires execution.
i don’t know if this have been post before but when i was messing around in the lab with spidey and nova i noticed that when a character is into web ball capture state he is considered to be in the air, when i used web ball in a grounded opponent and called centurion rush assist the opponent ground bounced, maybe this can be usefull to extend combos with nova using web ball as assist in a similar way to spencer’s wire grapple.
Unless they are standing nova always ground bounces. You can just time nova to hit after a web zip and get a web throw in since web ball is useless after long combos other than resets
I think he means Nova point with web ball as an assist. I still think that there would be too much HSD for web ball to help to extend combos like that though.
I have an idea, but it is kind of useless and risky. When you start a combo with web ball, you generally get lower damage. So I was thinking, what if you could use the web ball to mix them up instead of comboing off of it? The mix up that I had in mind is cr.:l:/s.:l: after the web ball causing them to hit the ground, hopefully they decide to hold back so they roll backwards, plink dash forward to cross them up -> whatever the hell you want to do from there.
Generally speaking though. Why would you be comboing into web ball? That would mean you already got the hit and are now sacrificing guaranteed damage for a mixup. Now if it was during a block string and they tried to do something then I got ya.
I didn’t mean doing a web ball in a combo, I mean like when you sometimes get a random web ball to hit when you toss them around in the neutral. Otherwise it would just be throwing an opportunity away for a mixup that probably won’t work more than once.
/:h:/:s:)] after the zip drop cross up. Depending on where you hit the c.:h: hitbox, the camera end and the time you get pushblocked, you will get different results which are all in your favor because pressure and momentum is kept and hits can easily be confirmed by either :l: or c.