at least im not the only one who thinks the redhead undeserved nerfs… jean and dark jean are fine, the way dark jean abuses xfactor is whats broken. at this point they need to go back to the color swap days and make jean a normal character and dark jean the weird bullshit character.
Ok i hate Pheonix a lot…and despise the fact that almost everyone plays her…but i still think all of that nerfing is stupid…
A lot of other characters are getting nerfed along with phoenix, I feel that Dark Phoenix will still be powerful but will have to work harder to get. People keep saying that snap back is going to be a sure kill on phoenix now, but the thing with snap back is that u have to get hit. Instead of losing your point character when u get touched, you lose phoenix. Ur point character is still alive.
I feel that people will have to be less reliant of phoenix in UMVC3, when you lose phoenix you dont fret because you still have 2 characters. there are plenty of occurrences where 2 characters were all you needed to win a game.
Then there are times where your 2 point characters die and you are down to just phoenix with 3 meters. You can’t run away anymore but xfactor lvl 3 phoenix is still a force to be reckoned with, just like sentinel or wesker. Better yet you can now activate it in the air.
The point I am trying to get is that phoenix can still be viable on a team, don’t make it a big deal when u lose her, there are a lot of occurrences of people losing their point character and coming back with their last 2. Phoenix may not be “top” tier or whatever word you want to use but I still see her doing well competitively. I can actually see her as a good 2nd character in which u can TAE her in and have her build meter by using assists to mix up. When dark phoenix arises, I may save my xfactor for after she dies and im down to my last character.
Im glad to hear that she is getting those nerfs…
I have seen the full evolution (from day 1 to EVO) of the phoenix’s teams, and they are pretty much stuck in the same patern…
Super jump, 2 or 3 salty balls, repeat until you see a gap or something then teleport and random traps, no skill required.
Thats the 90% of the phoenix teams…
Just so everybody knows what we are talking about, lets review the evolution and what has Phoenix has added to the gameplay…
( the nerfs are going to change that, because lets face it, that kind of game lowers the quality of the game/expierience/community/tournaments overall…)
The evolution goes something like this…
from the classic use of her as an anchor (getting to 5 meters and not using any specials) to the Viscant changes (user her as soon as you get 5, then when you get DP, change to another teammate and use the team normally) to the Tokido way of using her (as part of your team and not as your only hope to win, psicological fuck up type…) to finally the Viscant adjustments (Strong battery character + Retarded invincible assist character + Phoenix = i win EVO).
This last iteration of the phoenix team is the strongest of all, it can be used by anyone (with skill or no skill) and has the best defense and offense available for her. This team cannot fall to rushdown attempts (haggar and tron herp derp), has a lot of mixups potential (depending on the battery), and gets DP more consistently than any other version.
So of course i was glad to see her extremely effective run away getting nerfed, phoenix teams will have to evolve into something real to get DP out…
Am I the only one who thinks she just got off with a slap on the wrists?
These nerfs aren’t going to do shit to her. She will still be S-tier and will still be the cheapest char in the game. Mark my words
As has been said before, the problem was XFC D. Phoenix and there have been no changes to that at all… therefore nothing has changed.
Your kidding right? Her lower health makes it difficult to be effective rush down since now bnb combos are enough to kill her without a hyper. In one of the vids from UMvC3’s latest build, she died from 5 lances from Arthur in his golden armor while she was advance guarding. ADVANCE GUARDING. Oh yeah, thats gonna be just a slap on the wrist. If anything its gonna force players not to use her unless she has 5 bars.
She died from most lvl 3 hypers, now she can probably die from a lvl 1 hyper. As for her salty keep away, it’s gone. Now she has to attack to survive. She can’t shoot TK shots and teleport either from the air to keep her safe. If anything Capcom want’s Phoenix users to use Dark Phoenix. Not to mention those nerfs crossed over on to Dark Phoenix too. The nerf on her one air special is justifable and though the health nerf is questionable it helps keep Dark Phoenix from appearing. And with the TAC meter killer, Dark Phoenix shouldn’t even appear in all matches anymore.
“Just a slap on the wrist…” Do complainers sit down and think about why things were nerfed and buffed on a character?
lol dead phoenix let it all out man
Arthur’s golden lance during lv3 xfactor does 78k damage on vanilla when blocked…
5 of it is almost 400k damage, In Vanilla, Phoenix dies in six of those.
I think Phoenix’s health nerf does almost nothing… I play Phoenix a lot, and most of times, even without that nerf, she won’t survive the first hit anyway, if it’s a random super they just DHC and kill, if it’s their last character, she’ll turn into dark phoenix anyway…
If it’s a random hit that does not lead to a combo, she’d survive in vanilla and will still survive in ultimate…
It’ll be relevant for chipping in some cases, but with air xfactor being possible I hardly see this as a big issue.
If you have to use X-factor to keep Phoenix from being chipped out on a welcome set up, you won’t have it available to block chip or health drain with Dark Phoenix. That’s a pretty large change.
Well… as the game is today, Phoenix is just chipped to death from some welcome setups…
most of them with 2 or 3 meters and xfactor, but still…
those setups are rare, and most of time you’ll just die for some mixup and not 100% chip…
i don’t think that 70k HP less she has now is make so much difference and she’ll be killed constantly by chip on her way in.
Pretty sure 70k leaves her in range for Rekkoha XF(1) Rekkoha actually. That takes level 3 x-factor right now. The number being tossed around for the health nerf at Evo was 100k, which would bring her down to 320k. Which still works out mathematically with the lance damage you provided - 78x4 is 312k, which would require a 5th hit. The original statement stating 5 lances also did not specify x-factor or not. The point is, her health is likely dropping far enough that you won’t even need to attempt a mix up on her anymore, just Hyper XFC Hyper. The health nerf will change nothing combo wise at all, it’s not like she even requires a hyper to kill unless you start from a throw right now. It does make it significantly easier to just chip her out, which will force earlier x-factor usage. Until we get training mode though, there’s no way to know just how severe the health nerf is. All speculation has it between 50 to 100k, and both are enough to cause problems. All current chip damage welcome set ups require 4 bars and/or XF3 that I’ve seen.
:eek:
Spoiler
Skip to 14:00
[media=youtube]0_SoLco9Qtk[/media]
she’s in the whole vid
[media=youtube]tI2d49HTEO4[/media]
whole vid
[media=youtube]WkawTGgfhb4[/media]
Well all right, she still good with well trained Phoenix players.
Sucks for noobs
XF based chip setups are irrelevant because of air XF any way. If they wanna burn their XF…just burn yours. The only shit that’s going to matter anymore is like trap based Spider Man style shit. Spider Man has been doing more damage to Vanilla Phoenix than XFC chip will ever do to Ultimate Phoenix. He doesn’t require welcome setup and doesn’t care if you have 5 bars, you still lose both characters. If they wanna burn their XF early…whatever. Long as you still get 4 characters your chances of winning are still pretty good. You’ll get 4 characters, they wont and also wont have XF. Non XF DP with healing field is still a big problem against a team without XF. Just a problem that will actually require some work to use.
TAC meter killer…any good Phoenix team is going to be mashing forward counter any way. If anything Phoenix teams will be using forward tags on other teams because it gives them the chance to mix up into stealing meter from the opposing team. If I was a Phoenix player I’d welcome the meter stealing because now I can mind fuck people as to whether or not I’m going to steal their meter and give them less chances to snap her in. Plus if they try to TAC my team all I care about is not getting meter stolen. Unless Phoenix is already dead you’re just going to protect the meter any way. I find it pretty funny that Phoenix players haven’t immediately been like “meter stealing TAC…hell yeah!” LOL. If Phoenix team lands first hit they can start building and stealing meter from the opposing team off the bat so they’ll be left with less chances to snap in to begin with. As a matter of fact that will probably be one of the new opening strats for Phoenix teams if they land the first hit.
What Capcom did was nerf regular Phoenix’s point play so it’s harder for Phoenix herself to net the meter she needs to get 5. Making the standard character that some people found fun to play less interesting to play. For those that liked to use standard Phoenix as a character…yeah the ability to use that character in a solid fashion has diminished. Which pretty much was the only way they could do it with Capcom’s ideology of making Dark Phoenix the ultimate goal of Phoenix. They dont want you putting Phoenix on your team unless you’re playing for Dark Phoenix. Considering super jump to salty ball x 2 to teleport beat 60 plus percent of the cast for free (including other S tier characters)…I’d say it’s for the better of the game.
I kinda feel sorry for those that liked to play standard Phoenix as a point character since it will now pretty much revolve around D3athw1sh style load her up with assists in the front and pray BS but, if Capcom wants Dark Phoenix to be the center of her gameplay then nerfing regular Phoenix is the only way to balance things.
For those that play Phoenix for the standard tourney viable “play for Dark Phoenix” mentality, their game is mostly unchanged if you account everything. They’re just playing for the 5 and it wil most likely still be easy as hell to build 5 meters with Phoenix’s minions.
yh i wasnt so bummed about TAC because well like deviljin said if u catch em in a combo u can either A.) Steal their meter thus destroyin any chance of snap in then if the hit u with a combo they could be so desperate to steal a meter 2 snap her in B.) gain a meter and help her out
wait phoenix players are complaining their char got nerfed hard?
You honestly can’t tell me you didn’t expect it.
Complaining, bitching, whining…Wasn’t it the same when they annouced nerfs for other characters as well?
The air nerf was expected , but the health nerf wasn’t. You would think that with all of the Dark Phoenix complaints they’d at least tone her down. But they decided to lower the life on Phoenix. Which now makes sense now since Dark Phoenix is still OP in XF3 and she still has the feathers to play keep away if need be and still rack up damage in combos with them. And as DevilJin said, Capcom wants to push for Dark Phoenix play more then regular Phoenix.
fundamentally one hyper should kill phoenix
I mean reg phoenix is still relelelelelelelele good, and dark phoenix is still obscene. They just nerffed her keepaway, her offense is still insanely good.
except they took out one of her main mixup options… Air salty ball into teleport… This is the main problem that the “1 move in the air” nerf will bring… it’s bigger than the zoning nerf, imo.
if they just limited salty balls to one on screen at each time and removed wallbounce from Dark Phoenix’s traps, Phoenix would probably be ok.
I don’t use Phoenix and I never will, but the one fireball in the nerf is a blessing, meaning that she can’t frustrate rush down characters as much anymore. As a bonus it’s easier to keep the offense on her when she drops her guard.
they took away her easiest mixup option, she has an 8 way air dash and a wtfbbq superman psycho crusher, use them