Damn the Old TAC system would have been perfect. Instead of it being a luck, zero risk extremely high reward mechanic it would be a luck, high risk, high reward mechanic. Go ahead and try to get 2-3 bars in a combo while killing any char in one hit but know that I can counter and do the same.
Oh well. I do wonder what players would drop in rankings without TAC’s. Yipes/Combo would most likely be winning even harder since they both apparently hate that system and do fine without. Any frank, phoenix, doom team would fall heavily. Some players seem to rely very strongly on it.
You’re missing the point. For one if you go your route your better off not having them. Why would you create an even more chaotic guessing game of TACs as an answer? It’s a terrible idea on top of a currently flawed one. TAC’s have an intended use, the problem is that the tech exceeded the intended reward. The way TACs were supposed to be seen were:
gain meter, extended damage, steal meter w/ safe tag
3 distinct advantages. However we discovered ways of heavily extending the combo, meaning UP tac is completely irrelevant, next Down TACs became irrelevant because the extended combos already had high meter yield. Your left with the steal meter as the only option with a distinct advantage. The mind game is broken because none of the perks have any contextual use and the reward has become the combo extension that only cares that the TAC doesn’t get countered. That’s why people are bitching (and they should…but they are complaining about the wrong things).
TACs work perfectly fine if the 3 options have valid and practical use and the extensions are drastically nerfed unless 1 of the options is to extend it (which there is, but we surpassed it’s limits). Right now Down TAC needs a buff because it’s eclipsed by the meter gain within the extension anyway, and up TAC needs to be reworked. TAC’s need to be about the benefits and safe tag and not extend the combos like they do. In that case you are looking at TACs as a risky alternative to an optimized combo in trade for different benefits. TACs NEED to do less damage than solo combos outside of stretching a few extra hits if done very late.
In ANY case, a nerf to TACs is infinitely better than the counter with a combo idea. That idea is TERRIBLE and capcom was in the right to not include it. I don’t think people are really thinking when they say that is a good idea. I think people are just mad at how OP TACs are and how the mindgame is flawed and really a guess since the reward is more focused on it simply not being countered to get a stupidly long combo.
Emphasise the mind game (the 3 perks need contextual advantages to weigh in on for the defender to have an idea), Nerf the indirect advantage of huge combo extensions. That’s ALL that TACs need to be fixed.
My money’s on Capcom attempting to fix TAC infinites but doing a half ass job so that people still find ways to do them, albeit much harder, which is better then now when many of the infinites are pretty piss easy.
Also TAC is a complete shit mechanic, I dunno why anybody would defend it. When your dog shits on your carpet you put his nose in the shit so he knows not to do it again, you don’t praise him for it.
I’m gonna mollywhop whoever the fuck asked for this. Nobody asked for this. Why would anybody asked for this?
I mean really, what Capcom did in terms of making the characters is kinda like proudly claiming that it had a threesome; then when you asked Capcom who were the other two, Capcom looked you straight in the eye with a smile on its face and said “Gary Busey and a Donkey.”
I see what Capcom was trying to do with TACs and they’re not a bad idea, it’s just they strayed from their initial intent once we learned to exploit it. TACs are completely fixable. But the fix is in the reward of the attacking player. That’s what needs adjusting.
Although I’ve seen a lot of dumb character change suggestions in this thread, no, TAC sucks and needs to be fixed. Players aren’t developers, sure, but you don’t need to be a chef to know food tastes like crap either.
I think all my points have addressed the fact that they’re flawed (and pretty detailed). But stating something is wrong doesn’t mean you know the solution.
Many of these suggestions fully disregard the intent of TACs. Capcom never intended for combos to pan out as they did. The amount of 1-2 meter TODs and exploits we’ve figured out has easily surpassed the original design of the game. TAC’s were originally a method to extend combos at a risk to the opponent breaking out when damage was not so easy to obtain. They were assuming a 600k combo might turn into a 700k if you did an up TAC or you would down TAC in hopes to get enough meter to DHC. There fix in UMvC was to create a mind game of gain/steal/damage. But the 2 of those options became irrelevant with the extensions we found, you get the damage and meter no matter what TAC you pick…that’s the problem. No mind game and too much reward.
So yes TAC’s do suck and do need to be fixed. But none of these suggestions fix it, they’re knee jerk reactions in spite of the benefit of doing TACs. The fix needs to respect the intent of TACs as a risk/reward option that defines a clear mind game that the defender can make intelligent decisions to bar a worst case option or attempt a read, and for the attack the TACs benefit must be more limited since the safe TAG and immediate bonus of meter gain/steal is already a fair trade off for less damage.
I understand where you’re coming from, I’ve read all your posts. What you still fail to explain is how opting to end your combo with a TAC, a game of chance, a guess that if completed will give you a high reward. Compared to the opponent guessing CORRECTLY on you’re initiated attempt at a gamble, and getting the same reward?
You don’t go to a Casino and gamble when you only have $100 left to your name.
The way I see it, I’m not saying this is the BEST idea to fix our issue but it’s not a bad one, personally I’m really liking Duck’s idea a lot more as I think about it.
Why? If the attacking player wants no risk and all the reward of scoring a hit, then they’ll go for the guaranteed combo and not use TAC. Most of the stuff TAC is designed to do can be done without it. You can safe tag with Alpha Counter, DHC, or some other setup. You already gain meter during a combo. You certainly don’t need it to ToD. If you’re gonna steal meter, that should come at a risk. The attacking player already has the advantage during a TAC. There’s a 2 in 3 chance they’ll succeed where’s a disadvantaged player has a 1 in 3 chance, assuming they’re even looking for a TAC to begin with. If that’s not good enough odds, there’s always Morrigan and her Soul Drain.
Also, Up TAC is not irrelevant. Some characters need a wall and/or ground bounce to optimized their combo. Up is the only direction that doesn’t use one or the other.
I get it, you’d rather nerf TACs to the ground than to make them a gamble. Fine, but don’t say it’s bad game design to have it the other way just cause you don’t agree with it.
The point everyone is missing is the high Reward we are getting from TACs is not the intention of TACs. The fact TAC’s basically work as a 66% reset is an oversight.
TAC’s in vanilla were meant as combo extensions back in a time where 600k was optimal and TAC’s didn’t add 500k+ to that. In UMvC the reward was shifted to the situational benefits with meter hoping that TACs would base around that. TACs were not intended to have this high of a reward so you have to factor that in. TACs need LESS reward, and more DEFINED options. Everyone here is saying giving a huge free combo to a lucky guess fixes the problem. It doesn’t, it just means that the game devolves into guessing for both parties. TACs should be intelligent decisions of risk/reward not gambling on both sides.
WHEN YOU BALANCE TAC REWARD, GETTING OUT OF THE COMBO IS IN FACT A RISK. If I’m only 400k into my combo and I want to TAC to hinder your meter, I take a risk of losing a lot damage for something i might not get. The problem is right now it’s totally unfair to the defender because you have no idea which 3 they’ll choose since no one actually cares about the effects as well the TAC hit stun problem leads to huge damage.
TACs shouldn’t be about chance. They should be trade offs for damage to obtain an alternative benefit like meter steal or safe swaps. Nerf the combo options, buff the benefits. You have a clear mind game and a practical purpose that isn’t a 66% reset. Risking getting comboed to get a reset combo is fighting stupid with stupid. Neither side needs that. THAT’S THE PROBLEM, there shouldnt be guessing.
You might’ve actually been on to something there if it wasn’t for the fact that after stealing my meter, you’re still going to be combo’ing me, gaining more meter while doing so and ending up with the same damage you would’ve gotten if you hadn’t gone for the TAC. Dumb.
…If I say nerf the combo potential…you’re not gaining the same meter and damage. I’m saying buff those perks and limit the combo.
It’s not like I wrote several sentences pointing that out >_> (though im becoming convinced people are skimming my argument and not reading them)
So EXAMPLE of a working current TAC:
Solo: 700k!
TAC’s at 400k mark:
up: +200-350k combo (why cuz it’s damage and your goal is safe swap)
side: +50-100k combo + meter steal (less damage for the meter steal!)
down: +50-100k combo + meter gain (less damage for meter which might get you a DHC)
Defenders viewpoint:
Up TAC: if he wants to safe tag, i want to stop him from gaining solo damage, they must now take less damage to bypass my counter
Side TAC: If I really need meter I’ll block this option.
Down TAC: if they want meter to get a DHC or fuel a team that needs meter I’ll block that
If it worked like that it would make a lot of sense. We have a valid mind game (no guessing, you block the most threatening option and get rewarded if they get greedy) Problem is we have all sides is like 400k+ extensions with a full bar of meter. NERF THAT.
Before you continue to go on thinking that no one’s reading your post and just arguing with you because they don’t like your idea, I’m going to say I get it. The way to actually nerf the TAC combo without exploiting it like we already do is to make any result from the TAC end in a full screen push back into a neutral position. Like Dark Phoenix transforming. That single hit can be looked at as like a basic 200, 350k bonus damage or whatever. Either way, I get it. I’ve read your argument, I understand it, it’s clear. Decrease the reward instead of increasing the risks.
Problem–to me at least, and I know I’m just speaking for myself on this because I’m crazy–is that’s no fun. I don’t want safe bets. I want do or die, live on the edge, I kill you or mess up and end up dead myself. I want the old TAC counter back because it looks cool. That’s it.
Well I suppose my push is to make TAC a utility option as it’s intended. People see it as a damage ante option, and it doesn’t work that way and they’re right to be mad.
