I have a question related to the red focus attack or more specifically the ex.red focus crumple.
I did a quick search but I can’t find this information anywhere. When I crumple someone with a level2 (same as the ex.red focus I presume), at what frame the airborn state starts ?
I did a couple of test with the red focus in mind when the ex.red focus was annonced, but I couldn’t combo with Chun’s ultra1 before the airborn state. So I start to wonder if it’s even possible to crumple and combo chun’s Ultra1 before the airborn state.
i think many of those who started with the SF4 series as their first fighting game may not see the big deal in this yet. wake-up games in other fighters (especially past sf games) are one of the most fun and interesting parts of the game. you start out with zoning, then a knockdown, then you score big damage but it wasn’t guaranteed. SF4 poured acid on this idea and everything got messy.
with OG SF4, people were trying old SF techniques post knockdown and seeing that it was too risky and the opponent was backdashing or easily reversaling out of pressure. the best strategy was to almost always go for an ambiguous cross-up jump in. this dealt with many backdashes and reversals and allowed you to keep pressure and possibly big damage.
as the series progressed, new tech was discovered and things that were meant to make the game easier for beginners were being exploited. things like the buffer window during jumps for OS tech and throw tech windows with cr lk+lp for example.
when you play a fighter that doesn’t have so many ways to escape pressure coupled with good risk/reward ratio, you’ll actually start to have fun even if it’s not a perfect game. not only is attacking more rewarding but even defensive play like reversals are more interesting.
for peoples that keep saying " just adjust to the technical message " her’s what Wao said about it ( he acknowledge ibuki case however ) somone who have hands on the game and not speculating on SRK forums
finally someone of high caliber speak about it, i really dont think peoples understand the implication of such mechanic change, a lot of player gonna be badly suprised the day USF4 drop and they go online ( its not even mention on the trailers )
give me relevant supers , more damage and combos and you can keep this abomination … if they allow edition select online and DWU isnt altered/gone i will never touch it
SF4 offensive/defensive issues stem mostly from how throws work and input windows. If those things were changed it’d be on track to being a much better game.
i don’t know what frame it is exactly, but yeah you can’t get a full ultra charge.
what you can do is do a dash ultra though after the crumple. Blanka has to do the same because the first hit of u1 cannot hit airborne characters. Why you’ll see Blanka players do cr.mk u1 after a crumplebe because it’s actually easier than a dash ultra with awkward timing out of a connected focus.
In CVS2 those shadows appeared as the character was standing. Not before. By then it was too late. In Ultra the indicator appears before the character delay stands.
CvS2 also has the teeny tiny little detail of having much better offensive options in A-Groove, Roll Cancelled Supers and K-Groove damage overall than anything in AE outside of maybe (maaaaaybe) unblockables.
The only things which annoy the fuck out of me are unblockables and “fake crossups”
If an attack hits me in the back and im holding forward to block, I fully fucking expect to block that shit. Other than that delayed wakeup is indeed just a silly addition to slow things down.
If reversal options weren’t so good I’d be fine with crossups and safejumps being kinda garbage. I don’t even know why I’m complaining. I am all for a really slow fighting game in general.
They’re still there. I asked Kim1234 to test Evil Ryu’s SRK, FADC, HK axe kick, double dash, forward jump HK. I forgot to tell him who to test it on, but he tested it on Poison and he said it works. He said he didn’t test out to block it, but I’m pretty sure it’s probably just a fake cross up since that’s what it is against most of the cast that it works on.
I think you mean specials. Roll canceled supers were seldom used in CvS2.
At any rate, a lot of what you listed there were/are also strong defensive options in CvS2 as well. They just weren’t as derpy as FADC’ing a blocked DP.
Roll Cancelling in the middle of Lv.2 C-Groove supers usually gave you better damage than just letting the super finish. That made hit-confirms scarier.
This has been discussed to death already, but I’m glad there’s actually a place on the internet that actually understands wao’s critique and the fault of the DWU mechanic. Anyone who understands SF4 and the real reason vortex is prominent, the defensive options of the game, and the poor damage understand why DWU (implemented the way it is) will make the game much worse. I don’t even understand what people are supposed to “adapt” to: wao has already explained (and this should be obvious) why it’s very hard to create setups that cover both options, barred some exceptions (ibuki.) As if it was hard enough trying to grab people (what with 4button teching/3 button teching/late teching/early teching/backdash/reversal/jump/teleport/etc.), grabs are now even worse since a player can now just take a grab, and then have a guess that’s in their favor (first guess have the attacker proper the guess the wakeup type, then the actual mixup.) Anyone who’s played strong players with a non-divekick/command grab/overhead character without setplay nonsense should relate to that. By basic probability it is very easy to escape any pressure by doing this, which is why wao suggests buffing throws.
There is a lot of irony about the DWU mechanic. DWU will not promote smart play at all: it well promote much more reckless play (eg. mashing backdash/reversal) because of offense now being far more risky. It would alright in a game like ST/3S where you can throw off a player’s reversal timing by doing different setups/timing them different so they screw up the reversal (perfect example is gief in ST, where you can alter the speed/amount of cr.lp’s into SPD, you can do cr.lk/close.mk/cr.mk/etc., or raw SPD or do the standard setup you did earlier, have the player recognize the proper timing to reversal and bait the DP.) But this is SF4, where you can mash down~downforward P through any string and the reversal will come out. With offense already risky/hard to implement as is without setplay, most of the damage will be coming from who gets the most hits out of neutral. DWU does not improve the game’s footsies at all, it just makes the footsie/fireball characters the best; there’s a difference. I’m just annoyed because so many players are thinking wao is personally making complaints as if he hasn’t adjusted, but the reality is he’s already adjusted and probably doing even better than before; it’s the weaker players that will have issues.