http://youtu.be/ZP11bv1xyBo
For the Interested.
Oh I agree! Most definitely! My crane usage is very situational, and Mantis style is my staple. I will always switch back to Mantis for the neutral game.
are there any other good blockstrings you guys are using to switch to crane mid blockstring for counter hit cr.mp xx jyasen?
Seriously: Zangief versus Gen in this iteration equals lol, no? I was up against a decent Zangief masher and it was ridiculous. With Zangief’s new broken green hand you can’t outfootsie him at all, and as soon as you’re downed you’re dead, whereas Zangief has no such problems against Gen. Played against a less than stellar Zangief and won like one out of five games. It’s so damn retarded when I hold my own against tournament level players but lose to a fucking green hand > spd masher. Picked Blanka and beat him one game but then switched back to Gen for matchup knowledge, but I’m clueless. Is this match as much of a joke as it seems to me? It was bad enough back in 2012 but with the new green hand you can’t even zone him out. I really feel “fuck Capcom’s idea of balance”. Oh, and obviously lariat > Gen’s ultras unless you time them perfectly. I already knew that, though.
Yep, I fucking hate it too. It is definetly equal IF not in giefs advantage. He now gets bigger reward from footsies with red focus, and with the new greenhand he can actualy punish cr. mp hands if it hits once. It’s pretty annoying and I’m beggining to wonder if gief doesn’t actualy win this now.
says who? if u can’t react to a 30 frame move on Wiff to punish it or jump up then you need more practice.
not if it’s buffered from footsies or used as a punish.
it’s -2 reversal hands will push him back or just neutral jump or backdash
I think Zangief VS Gen has changed up quite a bit, and in the end it may be an even match-up.
Take this post with a grain of salt because I haven’t really played against good Giefs. I just have this in mind in case I fight Gief players who are actually really good.
Green Hands being able to block any non-EX max range hands on block is definitely annoying.
There are some reasons that makes me think that this MU is not in Gief’s favour at this point, and these are 2 examples:
- Zangief’s st.MP is weaker and is much more prone to getting hit out during start-up. Really good Zangiefs are good at using this, and I think the ground game got easier thanks to this.
- LP SPD having slightly less range really helps Gen, period.
**That being said, ideal range and ideal normals to be used may have changed since far st.LK xx LP Green Hands is mostly safe on hit at -2. I believe staying in between right outside of Gen’s Mantis st.MK and in max range of Gief’s LP Green Hands is okay, though I’ll need more experience with Gief players.
I think Gen’s nerfs didn’t have huge impact in this MU except for hands change and damage nerfs, while the nerfs that Gief has received changes this MU quite a lot. I definitely think the MU got easier for Gief, but I cannot see it being in Gief’s advantage right now. MU itself, however, is much more tiring to fight in general (as if it wasn’t exhausting enough in 2012!). LP Green Hands -> SPD mash is working for now because we’re not used to seeing the new LP Green Hands (so fast! it’s not really easy to whiff a move that has 29f total duration)
it’s 8 2 21 which is 30 frame total. active is the green ball. stay at range that it will Wiff and keep an eye for the green. nothing much gief can do from there except jump which is slower. or command sweep which is sloweeeer.
still same strategy.
I believe it’s 29f. I did some tests and LP GH seems to have 20f recovery instead of 21f. I don’t trust the guides for frame data.
Difference from 2012 is that you’ll have to anticipate GH in order to punish it instead of pure reaction. Most punishes will come from TC2, st.MK or cr.MP so you have to react and press a button within 24~25f, which is very difficult to do unless you’re looking for it. It’s sorta like the new T. Hawk’s Condor Spire except it’s easier to whiff punish due to him having much less active frames.
Personally, I find it easier if I stay in range where I can block and punish GH instead of making it whiff.
Of course, good players will only whiff LP GH once or none in a whole match, which can make you get caught by surprise if it happens.
EDIT: Oh man we’ll have to start using the old threads for these kind of posts
You have to take startup on your moves into account. So if you want to punish with say cr mp xx hands you need to react in 23 frames, and that’s not always the easiest thing when you’re occupied with analysing the distance (will he whiff or get blocked?) and the appropriate punish. Have fun reacting one frame too slow and eating spd into a mixup that depletes your entire meter.
I definitely “need practice” compared to the very best players out there, but I do hold my own against almost everyone (4000-5000 PP AE 2012 players included), yet I find this matchup ridiculous. At anything below the highest level of play it seems to be an auto win for Zangief. Excessive training versus him might change that, but I doubt it.
Street, do you play on XBL? If yes, care for some sparring? I want to take my Gen to the next level and it might be a good idea to verse another Gen for inspiration and analysis of what I need to inprove. I hate mirror matches but friendlies aimed at improving are are somewhat different.
If something is negative on block, you should try to both whiff punish and block punish. First, you’ll whiff punish if the opponent whiffs, and if it ends up making you block your whiff punish will not come out due to the blockstun. Then try to punish on block. It’s something that I recently started working on and it seems to be useful.
My gold member expired recently, and I won’t be going gold til the end of the next month, so I’m afraid you’ll have to wait for a whole month if you want to play me online. I’m rly terrible in online btw.
@DeusMortem maybe it’s hard for you. then find a solution that works for you. I know nothing Zangief has can move him across the screen except green hand so once he moves across 2 blocks of space fast than a jab I know it’s green hand and I punish him for it. at green hand Wiff range that’s the only thing you have to worry about. in footsie range it will hit you or you block it if it’s green hand so u don’t worry about it either. it’s that simple.
I still think its in Gen favor.
Yh
Like an option select! Good idea! I’d like to play you once you have gold again. I’ve never versed a Gen better than myself so I really have no one to learn from “live”. Good Gen players are very rare.
I just realised uh … I’m in Sweden so it would probably lag a lot (even though my net is great).
So far it is. Only played like five matches. Won one. Would’ve won then all with Blanka but I just can’t verse Zangief with Gen. I murdered his shift so he switched to Zangief. Gen can fight TH and Hugo just fine, but Zangief …
Maybe things would change drastically if I spaced myself differently but yeah, I am sceptical.
Regardless of the matchup at a professional level it is quite insane how easily Zangief wins if the Gen hasn’t analysed the matchup fully. If both players go into the game with no real concept if what to do Zangief is going to murder Gen.
I can see the matchup being a bit less ridiculous if I use delayed wakeup better.
The problem doesn’t lie with Giefs who are actually using GH to move. They’re pretty easy to counter once you get used to them. The problem goes with the Gief players who slowly walks forward and does a lot of far st.MPs and far st.LKs buffered into GHs.
Currently I cannot see the MU being in Gief’s favour, but I cannot see it being in Gen’s favour either. Maybe more game experience will change my opinion, since I play like once or twice per week.
Nah, I’m not necessarily a better Gen than you. Until we try 
Canada’s network sucks so we’ll have to see actually.
Yeah, I felt so (green hand spammers not being a problem) in 2012, too, but I don’t know anymore, and that feels truly disheartening. I’ll have to play the matchup more … and hope to figure something out.
My strength lies in mind games and footsies I’d say; I’m not as technical as a lot of players that I win like twenty games in a row against. Keep missing Gen’s one frame b’n’b so I end up doing stupid stuff like cr lkx4, st lk when I want to keep it safe. Feel that’s holding me back from competing here in Sweden. Top players generally do big ass multi one framer punishes, something I unfortunately don’t.
We could try to get some games in but I’m afraid we’ll get lag. Let’s try!
By the way, guys, I’ve started to make use of this roll xx rf > back dash instant air jump back Teiga. It is so much better than the Shitenketsu people seem to rely on off of roll rf. most damaging of Gen’s Ultras plus it sets you up for a near universal cross up Oga with lk version. If they do delayed wakeup just do a crane cr mp before ascending.