well i guess you could do that even if it doesn’t sound like a true blockstring and the opponent could start taking advantage of it as soon as he figures out… i personally tend to go for “mixups” with sMP frame traps, overhead, scoop, bait reversals, kara throws when i see my crLK > crLP getting blocked, buy hey that sounds like an option to get some chip damage anyway
That’s because Oni is +3 or something on block if he FADCs. If Gen does it at the last hit, it’s probably even on block (or you have to do it at the 2nd last hit which will be +2 on block which means much less chip). Also, Crane cr.LP -> Crane cr.MP has a 5f gap in between if the advantage on block is staying.
Mantis is still the main style no doubt, but Idk Crane looks complete enough for playing mid range game. I do think that knowing when to play each stance will reward a little better.
Cr.mp is a all-rounded footsies normal… decent range, speed, and can now be buffered into roll for combos, chip, break focus, etc.
Cr.mk helps against projectiles and should be a little more important now to buy time for ex roll, and also because focus is nerfed. Cr.mk xx red focus is also possible, can it be used for whiff punishes in footsies?
Cr.hk one of the best AA normals in the game. Gen is no Bison against jumpins thanks to cr.hk and it helps us play defense.
Cr.lp alright tool for hitconfirms and punishes now, in case you can’t make it back to Mantis in time.
Roll good for chip, block strings, focus cancellable for pressure, red focus into ultra should do some damage.
Crane is kinda of low tier in general by itself but now it does add some good stuff when you want to play a bit more lame. Less charge time for safer rolls aren’t small thing. Gen may not need to get in everytime to score damage now…
Oh man I totally forgot about Crane cr.MK into Red Focus. Might be a good way to counter fireballs IF the fireball doesn’t hit you when you go for red focus + if you can finish the match with it.
However, in most cases, I’ll use Crane for situations just like in 2012: walking and jumping. Jump-in normals got nerfed, but I think they’re still better than Mantis ones.
after some deep meditation with soothing music, I hate to admit it but Gen might actually be better in Ultra. yeah the nerfs are brutal and all but for some players it will be better Gen for others it will be hard. so let me throw some light on what I meditated upon
Gen
1F invincibility time on neutral wake-up removed
This didn’t really help much, the risk reward was never in Gen’s favor anyways
Bug that made reversal Focus Attack more difficult to perform fixed
Never had this problem, but never the less its good to have that fixed
Stun increased by 50 (900 → 950)
Well Gen is a 900 health character, so if he is getting stunned he is getting stunned anyways, but still who am I to say no to this.
When Stance Change and Red Focus are pressed at the same time, Red Focus no longer activated
This most likely will not be handy, if you press this in other to focus and tech it will probably get you thrown due to 5 frame stance chage recovery, may be useful if you use down + stance change for four button tech
Mantis Style
Focus Attack hitbox size reduced to position of hurtbox
Even though the range was long I never found myself using it to its fullest due to the fear of it wiffing on me. It happens sometimes and I get punished severly.
Close Standing HP stun distribution changed (15050 → 100100)
Capcom probably thought this combined with U2 stun buff that Gen will be a stun machine, maybe they are right but with or without it Gen will pretty much deal with Balrog to almost a 7-3 matchup level.
Crouching MP damage reduced by 10 (70 → 60)
This one is really the painful nerf, reducing crMP hands to 76 damage from 86 damage, which is pitiful but it could have been worse.
L, M, and H Hyakurenko hitbox slightly expanded downward; recovery increased by 1F (17F → 18F)
I used to think this was a good buff until I reviewed the hitbox data, the first hitbox is located mid, the second high, the third low and fourth mid. now what happens is on crouching the first connects and second wiff, the blow back is so great on the first that Gen keeps waving to the heavens, with the 1 frame extra recovery its approx -10 to -12 on max range. which may force Gen players to switch to crane crMP into jyasen. I dont think Red focus will even connect here.
L, M, and EX Hyakurenko pushback on hit and block slightly reduced
Will be awesome vs Deejay, now Gen will have an easy mini infinite loop with TC2xxEx hands loop which was hard in 2012. meterlessly Deejay should be hit with medium hands crHP or walk forward crMP hands. TC2 med hands crMP hands.
L Gekiro invincibility on frames 1-3 removed
This one is particularly painful, used it vs Balrog and Zangief to great effect, this means that Gen without meter is a sitting duck when under pressure. we can choose to use focus backdash or red focus our way out of danger, matches vs rushdown characters will now demand close to flawless execution in an attempt to keep them away.
H Gekiro causes soft knockdown instead of hard knockdown; button input timing now the same as Ver.2012 EX Gekiro
This one really hurt, because it was awesome vs who ever it worked on. But honestly due to DWU I believe that now Gen will most likely value a soft knockdown after hard gekiro and with the ability to mash out the hit we now have the ability to easily regulate the height of the final kick leading to decent mixups afterwards since they cant DWU soft knockdowns.
EX Gekiro disadvantage on block decreased by 15 frames (-35F → -20F); now causes hard knockdown; follow-up inputs no longer possible on block; Button input timing now the same as Ver.2012 H Gekiro
This is the dumbest nerf ever, but still it happened. So Gen is now given the hail mary status, I wish they made it fadcable but still we have to deal with it. Personally now ex gekiro will be SOLELY for anti air purposes only or after a well placed lead. but funny enough at high levels this is not a factor as any wiffed ex gekiro is punished severly none the less.
Zan’ei (Super Combo) damage reduced by 50 (300 → 250); can no longer be used in air combos
Most painful of the buffs, this will most likely lead to alot more use of U2, a potential deadly setup will rely on mixup after a hard gekiro, if you get a jump in ending with hard gekiro the next combo into shitenketsu will STUN the opponent, allowing for a free EX Oga follow up plus Hard Gekiro for another soft knockdown.
**Shitenketsu (UC2) hitbox slightly expanded forward; when activated at less than 75% Revenge Gauge, does 300 stun; when activated at 75% or more Revenge Gauge, does 450 stun **
I think this buff is more relevant than we want to admit, the range buff will mean you get to connect it on everyone now, and with full stun of 450 it will mean that Gen can now relax and absorb focus attacks and build it up with the ultra dealing more damage than U1 it will surely be of much use especially vs balrog.
Crane Style
Crouching LP advantage on hit increased by 2 frames (+3F → +5F)
This buff is only on hit, meaning that its not really a confirm, when blocked its 0 and with crLP being a 4 frame non chainable normal a plinked crLP throw tech will beat it clean or trade vs 3 frame jabbers. to me this is quite a USELESS buff, the only good thing is that it does 40 damage instead of 20 that crLP mantis stance does.
Crouching HK recovery reduced by 5 frames (29F → 24F)
Great buff, allows Gen more time to adjust after a forward throw to decide when to go for the oga if he wants to. also after a successful anti air gen now has a little more time to move.
Diagonal Jump HP hurtbox expanded downward
Will hurt vs Bison and Guile, but hey we can always walk. what worries me is that this is a decent air to air, but now it remains to be seen how it will be used.
Diagonal Jump HK hurtbox expanded downward
Somewhat irrelevant nerf, using this on wake up meaty situation is possibly the best use anyways, if you are catching a back jump most of the time they wont be hitting buttons and with where the hitbox is you shouldn’t be using this too much as anti air.
**
L Jyasen advantage on hit increased by 1 frame (+1F → +2F)**
Lol, another cosmetic buff, being +4 on counterhit still doesn’t offer anything, unless the opponent has no viable reversal
L and M Jyasen disadvantage on block reduced by 2 frames 3 frames (-3F → -1F ±0F)
Ok buff, but why didn’t they buff the hard version also. the chip from this is almost same for Oga chip.
All versions of EX Jyasen charge time reduced by 10 frames (60F → 50F); last hit damage increased by 10
50 charge is a decent buff will allow for some new combo possibilities and corner carry
So in consolation to myself and anyone else interested, Gen will not be so bad in Ultra. working on some high secret tech. muahahahhaaa
Well U2 on fireballs is almost like a must now, it’s just too good. It’s good in air and in ground so that’s good. No need to do the annoying kara to combo on everyone is cool too.
Double ultra could still be useful if you want to have a lot of options although more situational now.
Also I think I’ll suck with new Gen. But we’ll see. I considered myself ok and now I think I’m gonna be bad but mostly not because gen is bad but because I have to play him differently than I was used to.
I HOPE we don’t need to do kara. I remember amiyu saying that Kara was still needed for EX hands -> U2 when Ultra first came out in arcades.
I’m still gonna do setups to no end, because if they don’t do a delayed wake-up, I still get to do the same ambiguous mix-up.
I can also choose to bore ppl by using the good ol’ Crane j.MK -> cr.LK hit confirm then sweep on hit, Oga away on block, rinse and repeat 
shame on you man. shame on you…!
You know what assassins say: Everything is permitted 
BTW, now that I think of it, Combofiend was saying such a BS when he said he nerfed Gen’s FA because it doesn’t match the animation. I could give him counterexamples and argue all day like “remove SRK invincibility, animation shows the character is there but there’s no hurtbox” or “reduce SRK hitbox, the fist is clearly hitting the gut but hitbox goes all the way to the ground and far away from the actual animation” or crap like that. He should’ve just said “it’s too long, so we made it shorter” instead of just giving out excuses.
Is there a pc mod of those final changes already? I’d like to give some stuff a try.
sadly nothing is true, everything is permitted. hoping for the sweet soft unblockables. if they still exist. just content that Gen will have a very potent pressure game in ultra and the delayed wakeup will help him from getting rushed down vs some characters.
[quote=“ugo_2u, post:325, topic:165685”]
L Gekiro invincibility on frames 1-3 removed
This one is particularly painful, used it vs Balrog and Zangief to great effect, this means that Gen without meter is a sitting duck when under pressure. we can choose to use focus backdash or red focus our way out of danger, matches vs rushdown characters will now demand close to flawless execution in an attempt to keep them away.
EX Gekiro disadvantage on block decreased by 15 frames (-35F → -20F); now causes hard knockdown; follow-up inputs no longer possible on block; Button input timing now the same as Ver.2012 H Gekiro
This is the dumbest nerf ever, but still it happened. So Gen is now given the hail mary status, I wish they made it fadcable but still we have to deal with it. Personally now ex gekiro will be SOLELY for anti air purposes only or after a well placed lead. but funny enough at high levels this is not a factor as any wiffed ex gekiro is punished severly none the less.
It is obvious that these two nerfs are aimed to lower Gen’s upper cut counter ability after knocked down
However, with delay wake up is introduced in Ultra, i think it applies to every character that now we have two options to either use upper up to counter or use delay way up when being knocked down.
I think Capcom would like player to use learn/ use the new technic more offen.
Can anyone have played the game and helps to explain how delay wake actually up works?
Seems to me like they want to switch Gen’s style around, having us rely more on Crane and U2. I like that idea, but to me the buffs weren’t good enought to warrant that. U2 Mantis should have gotten aa status, always connecting fully on airborne opponents, and 450-600 stun instead of 300-450. Also, should’ve given all jyasen +0 on block and and lp version +3 on hit. You need to be close to combo off of it anyway, no? Would’ve appreciated a buff to crane cr MK, too. Quicker startup would have been optimal.
[quote=“aloc, post:332, topic:165685”]
Delayed wakeup is done by pressing a specific button combo. The text “technical” is shown and your character delays wakeup for 20 frames.
[quote=“DeusMortem, post:334, topic:165685”]
11 frames not 20
The buffs are… something. But it’s almost like their general consensus was to make mantis shittier so we would use crane.
Looking at Cody’s knife, Vega’s Mask, and Hakan’s oil as well as Gen I’d say whoever is in charge of SF4 battle design doesn’t really get how to properly balance stance mechanics to make alt stances useful/consistent. Took 3 revisions before they finally got Hakan right and he started out ahead since even in Super the Oil mechanic was really strong. Capcom still can’t figure out how to make Vega’s “remove mask/claw” specials have a use since there is no benefit to not having the claw and the mask is remove is slow and costs meter if you want to do it on demand. Cody’s knife got nothing but gimmicky changes and remains incredibly situational at best due to inability to special cancel any normals or keep the knife during throws or charging focus. As well as the low chip damage on it.
I can’t see why Gen’s crane would be an exception to this design flaw. His crane stance will always be a mixed bag of situational buttons and mostly useless specials outside of mixup Oga setups. At least the mobility he has is in crane is amazing and a couple of the normals are really good in crane stance. I really wish they’d figure out a way to give him something like that Jyasen stuff I discussed or something else.
What makes you say that? I definitely don’t agree with him being high tier against intermediate players. Nah, there are a lot of characters that provide far more effortless wins against such players. Blanka is one such example, though he struggles at higher levels. (I mention Blanka since he’s my secondary. )
They had a chance to fix it by giving that +3 roll, maybe adjusting few normals and giving h. roll atleast -2. It still wouldn’t be mantis. But hell that would be a good step in actualy doing what they’re claiming to do.
Also I’ll be using capcoms new replay upload to youtube system to show off my gen skeelz. I’ll post it here as I also realise not everyone either has xbox or wants to shellout the money, also as it gets released i’ll test if ex hands > u2 works on everyone without kara as I think that’s quite important.
Is ex hands > U2 a one-framer?