I’ve been thinking about the fake fireball for a while now since I wrote that. I’m actually leaning towards letting him have it now. But I don’t think he should get something like Guile’s LP sonic boom recovery frames. That would be too good for a character like Ryu who can do much more damage against bad jump ins than Guile. If it were to have at least the 2nd fastest recovery of any other characters projectile then maybe 24f would be a good place to start. That would make it the same as Guile’s HP boom. Good enough to bait out a lot of stuff, but still punishable by opponents with really good reactions.
As for the Joudan kick. I feel like if Capcom were to give him something, it would be one or the other. I just don’t see him getting both moves. But it’s probably more likely he gets nothing as I have hard time seeing Capcom give Ryu or any characters a brand new move in this game.
Sorry man. Not trying to be mean. Just real. Compared to other characters, both those dps are already really good. Keep doing those dps later until they hit deep…and if you can’t get it, who cares? You’re still anti airing them which is the point. Just don’t trade unless you want that ultra.
You guys already have the ability to make fire ball safe at the cost of two meter, but a fake fire ball would be too op against the anti fire ball ultras in this game
Yeah but you can’t AA every kind of jump in with crouch/late DP. Certain jump arcs you need to DP early or it will whiff. That can be somewhat mitigated by using light DP but not entirely.
I just don’t see why Capcom would want to bork an AA which is so integral to the character’s design and when there are already a million and one ways of getting in on Ryu.
fully agreed. what ryu risks by throwing a fireball is grossly disproportionate to what he stands to gain, especially against vortex-heavy characters like akuma. i understand ryu’s zoning/dp game needs to have inherent counters, but the risk:reward feels very poorly tuned. most likely, you’re scoring chip, meter, and if you’re really good, decent damage when stuffing their whiffed pokes. maybe you’ve even baited a few jump-ins back in your day. but how long can you make your streak of good fireballs last until they correctly guess once? because then you’re eating a combo off their jump-in/focus-dash/focus-crumple that likely deals more damage to you than the sum of your fireballs, or being knocked down and put into the enviable position of having to deal with a ridiculous vortex!
Jumpins aren’t the problem. Jumpins are fine, and legit. What is a problem is a number of Ultras that can punish fireballs fullscreen, sometimes on reaction with no reads required. Some EX moves do the same, they’re invincible from the start and just get the character in for free. The startup invincibility is what allows them to be done on reaction and still sail through the fireball, resulting in crappy gameplay where the rushdown character takes little risk.
Stuff like shoto tatsus or Akuma’s EX Flip aren’t the problem - those need reads to punish fireballs. You try a punish purely on reaction, you get hit by the fireball or in Akuma’s case eat a shoryuken for jumping in late (The flip is nothing but a standard jumpin that travels a long distance - most of the same rules apply. If he jumped early, that is on a read, you’ll be eating a combo or you get KDed by Palm Strike in which case you even have a chance to defend yourself. If the flip is late, you can AA.)
So spoiled. Ryu has never been as dumb in any other game as he is in SF4 and you guys want buffs?
Cr. mk to hado isn’t supposed to combo from any range, it’s already a million times more lenient than anything before it. Omg you guys are whiners.
Ryu’s normals are also stupid good. There’s no reason a zoner should have a set like he does. He’s basically a marvel character in the sense that everything links into everything into a hard knockdown and natural safe jump setup.
I’d be down with improving the fireball game, but it would have to be at the expense of something else.
Ugh, fuck this thread, you guys remind me of everything that’s wrong with these games. The devs try to placate players like you far too much because they’re afraid you’ll bitch and moan when stuff is a little difficult.
i mostly agree, komatik, especially with how certain ultras/ex moves shut down ryu’s zoning game, but with respect to prediction jump-ins, it’s what particular characters get after jump-in to hard knockdown that’s problematic. post-knockdown options necessarily inflate the reward:risk ratio of prediction jumping over a fireball, making the gamble a much more preferable option than it otherwise would be.
Would it be fair if the fake fireball cost meter? One bar? …I’d like to see Joudan return…as well as an alpha style hop kick…or even just steal evil ryu’s…course then is ground game might be a bit…op in some peoples opinions.
-Revert LP DP to its Super Version, the one where Ryu is airborne in the first active frame.
-higher damage for MP and HP DP when it hits while Ryu is on the air.
-Change the priority between hadoken and shoryuken when the their inputs overlaps each other.
-Add 1 extra active frame on its s.LP
-1f faster startup for hadoken (total frame count of the move still the same, so he will have 1 extra frame of recover)
-Decrease U2’s forwarding movement and increase its hitbox around Ryu’s head and decrease its startup time. That may help him dealing with some of the vortexes in the game. Or find an use for it, right now its as good as Balrog’s U2 to me.