new j.mk is causing some interesting fake crossups somehow. deserves more testing.
Ok so I did some testing for you and here’s what I came up with:
Akuma: Trades or wins. Either way, Honda comes out on top. Akuma eats 100-120 damage, you eat 70-80
Evil Ryu: See Akuma. You can’t do it too late or the dive kick stuffs you completely.
Twins: Their divekicks are tooooo fast. Jump back fierce or HB are better options.
Gouken: Unless you hit him at the peak of his divekick, he’ll beat you clean. Just AA with EX Headbutt.
Seth: Don’t try it, lol.
Cammy: I’ve gotten to trade but the threat of EX divekick is scary enough for me that I don’t wanna risk it.
Decapre: she’s not gonna jump in and divekick you, so you can react to her divekicks with HB. just don’t get baited by the fake!
after the cross up dive kick, u can try to do ultra 2 immediately for some characters like yun rufus
Yea, I don’t know what’s going on but I always manage to land fake crossups with Ultra 1, cl.HK, fj.MK.
At first, I wasn’t sure, until I played locally with my brother who pointed out I was doing ‘cheap’ fake cross-ups.
Definitely possible to do against bad cross-up divekicks. Do be wary that the blockstun isn’t very long, so doing a 720 is quite challenging.
As a reference here are some images to judge wether or not you should u2 them.
do u have rufus cammy seth akuma and other dive kicks disadvantage on block photo?
Love the Yang head shooped on there. Good work, Angerus.
I only have Cammy. (nearly impossible to U2 and this isn’t even taking EX into account)
Teyah created them fyi
tks angerus. If cammy divekick hit on your back, you can see that it is Minus 1 on hit, so that I think ultra 2 can catch her even she hits you. My fd can do ultra 2 when cammy uses dive kick attack his front side. Are there any different for cammy ex dive kick?
it is worth noting though that Ex CS has less blockstun in Ultra (theyr reduced the blockstun by 5). So U2 might be more usefull against cammy.
So I tested out AE2012 Cammy and USF4 Cammy doing EX CS from the peak of her jump and Honda stand blocking it.
I did multiple reversal U2, but it never connected, she’s still + or at least 0.
Oh, those charts up there are for 2012 characters, and Cammy’s divekick got worse in USF4. If you reduce frame advantage by 2 on hit & block for her, that chart should be accurate for USF4.
EX CS is different enough to where I’ll probably be making a chart for that. The new EX strike is +1F better on block than the old regular strike, so you can sort of visualize it from the old chart.
Good job Teyah, hope u can make other characters dive kicks chart like seth guoken akuma rufus… for our references. Dive kick is quite terrible in 2012 edition with the safe jump setup.
vs. twins you can use st MK to beat many divekicks
vs. Rufus + Seth you can sometimes buttslam it (hard)
vs. gouken LP headbutt is pretty amazing because it will normally win against both divekick and non-divekick because of the time it takes to start
i was already using u2 vs. Cammy to catch whiffed spiral arrows, never thought of using it against the divekick. possibly could work vs. cross up jump lk too if hits too high. but i think you could look at it like this - if the ex CS is high enough to beat your headbutts, i think there is enough blockstun to punish with u2. if she is hitting too low and being safe then you could have beaten it with an ex headbutt.
Anyone found any uses for ex oicho yet? I was playing online last night and i ex oicho-ed Hugo’s U1. Will try and upload the video when i get back home. Of course i didn’t do it intentionally, can’t remember the especifics of how this was set up, thing is, i wonder if it really has throw invulnerability after all and can really affect grab ultras.
@"Mike Robertson"
I’ve tried, but it’s not possible afaik. Also, if she does cross-up lk, I’m pretty sure you can punish that with a jab/throw (maybe oicho), doing U2 should also work but do keep in mind that the hitstun/blockstun isn’t that big so u have hardly time to input it.
@"Metallus Duende" Yes, I use it mainly on grapplers as well. 5fr startup, 1~5 fr throw invincible.
i didnt realize throw invincible also meant command throw invincible. thats actually really good for getting those assholes off of you
I think is worse now than in 2012. His defense even with new ex oichio, new ultra 2 and the new system still leaves him worse on defense. I think that his offense is better but only in certain matchups in very specific ways. Notably j.mp in a few zoner fights. Other than that it seems many more characters can anti air more effectively against him. His neutral game got a little but noticeably less solid as st.hk got the hurtbox extension. The new frame data on it helps in only what feels like 4 MU’s. While nerf hurts in all of them. Most of his buffs were targeting very specific and very bad MU’s while his nerfs were all blankets. I think he got just a one or two too many of them and now he is worse off than before.
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He needs his sweep to be adjusted as right now its is bad and has always been bad. The novelty of being plus on block means nothing as over 5yrs of sf4 no honda has put it to good enough use to make a problem in more than just a very niche way. Honda use to have 3 GOOD sweeps in his sf2 carnation. Now he has one terrible one. Make it lose 4 frames of adv so it is -2 and lose 4 frames of startup so it is 10. Now it will be able to be comboed into via 1 frame link and it gives it a purpose. This will open up the offensive game to honda which is what he needs in this version:better offense. His defense is less free and should stay that way. Also make sure the new sweep does no more than 80 dmg that way combos into st hk still have a purpose.
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At least ONE version of oichio STOPS CROSSING UP IN THE CORNER.We kept asking and Combofiend did not deliver. This has been in every incarnation of the character except sf4. Jesus help me if they think it would break the game if just one measly version stopped putting honda in the damn corner so he can go fucking hang himself after giving guile the rest of screen AGAIN. Mp or fierce, pick one. Personally mp oichio would be the best choice as it doesn’t do the best dmg and doesn’t have the best range. It never gets used otherwise so this would give one hondas remaining useless moves a practical non broken purpose. This with new sweep would honda better on offense no matter who he is fighting without making any particular MU’s free for honda.
These 2 changes would go hand in hand with blanket nerfs as they blanket buffs and affect nothing other than his poor offensive game in an offensively neutral game. Honda was good, not the best but good, in CVS2 which what Ultra is closest too now. He had better offense,defense and neutral back then. He just needs better offense now to stay fair. Whoever at capcom thinks Honda is OP because"delayed wakeup bro," is full of it…
See, there’s where the 2 months of Honda vs a few years of Honda exp comes into play! I’m still relatively new to Honda, so thanks for the input!
To piggyback off of what Sweaty's saying...I kinda feel like Capcom wanted to turn Honda into an aggressive, high-damage character who has to take many risks and throw away life to get that one opportunity and land big damage. Which is GREAT....if you're playing ST. The meta of SFIV and how the mechanics all intertwine with each other makes it very difficult for Honda to play that way. I love that his combo options for his more advanced combos were made easier so it gives more of an incentive to use meter on combos. Honda probably does the most damage for 1 meter off of a single low hit , but he has to work really hard for it.
Capcom's track record for Honda nerfs is really funny too.
Super Honda: LP Headbutt invulnerable. Beefy ass damage.
AE Honda: Ok so LP headbutt was stupid. Uh....fart?
AE 2012 Honda: FINE YOU CAN HAVE A TEENSY BIT OF INVULNERABILITY BACK
Ultra Honda: Ok so EX Headbutt needs to stop being so braindead! But you can wakeup slower now and you do more damage! Isn't that great? Everyone should play Honda like Mike Ross ( no offense MIKE!). He's the only guy playing Honda right? right.i think that sweep change woudl have been awesome. im just not sure if it has the range. especially with how strong some other characters get off knockdown mixups. either that or make cr HP knockdown. the funny thing about that is you are the only one who has ever used the sweep in a major lol.
the oicho corner thing doesnt bother me too much i usually just buttslam and go for the 40/60 mixup lol. either just double butt or late ex headbutt. would be nice but i doubt id spend bar on it. full inv. would have been perfect imo especally since i cant u2 now with the new input lol. like when cammy whiffs arrow i cant realistically 720 that without buffering… sooo how am i supposed to get it off? i guess i can try to buffer it. seems worthless. as far as inputting it during a blockstun? seems hard to me (but more realistic) you have to react and complete the motion SO fast.
u2 almost seems pointless too now that you can combo from hands RFC u1… the corner carry alone is worth it. i am absorbing peoples fireballs like crazy and it makes honda a threat now against zoners. the buff makes it way better even tho just 1 fr too. 3 bars is better than 4 too for something i was seriously never landing at all and now actually having a use for is sick. also its easier to use u1 as an AA now. on top of that we have char specific we can combo into u1 meterless off cr LP HHS? cant say he is not better in this version. DP FADC is all nerfed too and that was some of the hardest mixup to deal with. shuold probaly consider more ex oicho to deal with ken/zangief style tick games.
Lol I’m with you in the U2, I can’t even do the motion. Sadly I’m having trouble with ex hhs, since I’ve never really tried to use that either. Can get hands 100% of the time but ex hhs never made since nor the timing.
Gave up Honda and started using decapre only to realize most of her moves are unsafe as hell. Might go back to Honda but I said to myself I’m going to pick a more mobile character with way better options. After all these years I’m tired of downback kinda.