I mean for Dhalsim’s fierce. You can’t punish it on block, and I agree that guessing that he might throw out a fierce is not a viable counter. If you want to punish Dhalsim’s st. fierce with ultra you can realistically wait to focus absorb it then dash ultra after you confirmed that you absorbed a fierce.
It’s not meant as a guess-counter, it’s meant as a whiff punish for sims who go s.fp happy when you have charge for ultra. I should change it to green.
I should probably add FADC ultra to that, but remind me some of the details. I can’t find the old conversation, was it something like a 1 frame window to pull it off?
A frame window wasn’t discussed, but I suspect it’s way more than 1-frame. There’s a video somewhere of a Jap Chun doing it in-game in Vanilla. From my testing vs. focus dashing through Ken’s sweep for example, I was able to connect cr. mp (10 frames) before he could block. Dhalsim’s st. fierce would probably be more or less the same.
Basically, you bait a fierce punch in focus stance, then wait for him to hit you, dash forward, then ultra. You can either get full charge while you’re in focus stance or get into focus stance after you have full charge. You just need to be able to react to Dhalsim hitting your armor with a dash ultra.
Added, just tested it in training mode and it does seem to be much bigger than 1 frame.
Also added ultra choices for each matchup, feel free to discuss. When both are viable, I list them in order of usefulness. I will add in depth analysis for certain choices later. Suggestions and additions welcome.
amro and walnut
http://shoryuken.com/f253/chun-li-combos-glitches-175071/index26.html#post7303414
I was wrong though. I missed some information
What i learned after (Master guide, Maj sonic hurricane, hitboxes data, wiki srk) is :
1 - you cannot dash-cancel out of the first four frames of a focus attack (uncancellable duration: 4 frames)
2 - If you absorb an attack with a saving attack, you can take action 3F faster than your opponent (you can act during the hitstop of the absorb animation)
3 - heavy attacks cause 12 frames of hitstop
4 - Close range or far range it’s always the first active frame of stand hp which hit you.
5 - the hitstop thing works like that : the first active frame hit the opponent, after that there is a freeze of 12 frames where the both characters don’t move and after that the other active frame appear and the recovery of the move start
I made a gif. It’s more easy to understand
http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/5012/testmu.gif
Now if i resume chun li can move during this freeze 3 frames before Dhalsim if he hit her with stand hp
So Sim has a penalty of 3 frames. He has also a penalty of the last 5 actives frames and of course the 16 frames of recovery
3+5+16 = 24 frames.
About Chun li now. the 4 first frames of a focus are uncancellable. If i suppose Chun li active his focus at the last moment, that means she will start his focus one frame before the first active frame of stand hp.
So she has to wait 3 frames before cancelling the focus.
Sooner you activate less time you have to wait.
For example if you activate 15 frames before the hit, there is no penalty for chun li
So she has at max 3 frames of penalty. His dash forward = 15 frames minus 1 frames
3+15-1 = 17 if you activate the focus at the last moment.
But an early focus the calcul is just 15-1 = 14 (no penalty for chun li)
So if you compare 17 vs 24 there is a windows of 7 frames (just enough for the ultra)
And 14 vs 24 there is a window of 10 frames to punish Sim.
Again i am perhaps wrong
I’m confused by this: 3+15-1 = 17 if you activate the focus at the last moment. Shouldn’t that be 4+15-1 = 18?
I know that when you FADC any move, you have 3 frames of penalty to your dash. For example Cl. HK FADC is +4 advantage because the penalty adds 3 frames to Chun’s dash. So 22 - (15 + 3) = 4 advantage, where if there were no penalty, Chun would be + 7 after focus canceling Cl. HK.
If I am getting what you’re saying… focus dash = 19 frames minimum (4+15). focus backdash is 26 frames minimum (4+22)?
(That’s good to know for focus backdash, since I was wondering if that might be a safer alternative after mk sbk which makes you +2. chun goes farther from focus backdash and it looks like she will be invincible by the time a throw or srk or tu comes out.)
He’s not counting the total frames, he’s counting once Dhalsim’s s.fp hits (so the first uncancelable frame of the FA doesn’t count, since that’s when the hit happens)
More i think about this less i’m 100 % sure about those calculs though :wonder:
The only sure thing is the quotes
From Super Street Fighter IV - Shoryuken Wiki Main Page
From a translation of the master guide in 2008 http://shoryuken.com/f241/street-fighter-iv-master-guide-165219/index10.html#post5648479
ZOMG. THIS ANSWERS the question I have had about FADCing ALL ALONG.
I never understood why it appeared I could Focus Ultra a move that had less recovery time than the time it would take for Chun to dash and Ultra, but the Hitstop thing explains a lot.