Yeah spent some training time learning it… I walked back too far to hit it. Apparently you have you be close as hell… first or 2nd active frame close.
Geez you guys are going crazy over spacing CH.
If you are using CH as a throw tech punish you will be hitting the opponent on your first active frame.
Derp…
Vega’s okie will no longer be safe jumps … ST to build meter after knockdown then either walk up and throw, walk up and Cr.mk, cr.lp, cr.mp EX FBA, or St.lk, cr.lp, crmp Ex FBA, or bait a reversal. Use those strings because you can go from standing position to EX FBA so you won’t telegraph cr.mk by crouching.
Then as a mixup you can add karathrows into those strings and CH as a mixup to karathrows.
You want to be even more derpy CH them after they wakeup without a reversal to make them guess between using reversal and delayed reversal… even better you will probably be spaced far away enough where most characters cannot FADC their DPs because they will straight up whiff…
What can you do with +2, how about throw, bait reversal, instant air overhead, or trade with a 3 frame jab at worst… those are pretty good pressure options for a character without divekick or designed to rushdown.
You guys are being given one of the absolute best and safest throw tech punishes in the game which can link into ultra… (hello cammy)… which leads to more pressure… and is so easy to hit confirm its almost braindead stop being babies and adapt to these new wonderful tools.
speaking of st after izuna drop, if you whiff a heavy st, then whiff a st.lk, it pushes the corpse away far enough where their dp will whiff. if you whiff a cr.lp instead, you’re in throwing distance 
Intresting. Works on all reversals or just Ryu?
all dp except for kens hp and ex dp. it’ll only hit once, so it’s tiny chip damage and he probably can’t fadc it. if you instant cosmic heel ken after the setup, all dp except ex will trade in your favor damage wise. make sure when you whiff the hk st, that you DON’T step forward at all, or else your far lk becomes a cl.lk.
this setup works in the corner as well, but whiff mk st instead, hk st puts you too close in a way that far st.lk doesn’t come out. corner as in your OPPONENT is in the corner. if you want to do the cr.lp grab, you’ll need to do the kara grab.
I explained why they did that to ch a few pages back I think. They want ch to be used in pressure, not to advance and start pressure. If you have shotos OS’ing with mediums you have already half won the fight. A late crouch Mk can still be hopped, a mp has a long whiff animation. A crouch Mk leads to very little and is slightly easier to frame trap.
I have said before that +1 sounds like the right number. The buff (and it IS a buff) will help his offense, but make it more boring.
Wait, how does a cr.forward lead to very little? You can link it to 2 other attacks and then cancel to EX FBA. With CH, you can either ST, or EX FBA.
Ok, so maybe in USF4 CH could lead to some decent damage. I mean, we’ll get to U2 after it. But, instead of EX FBA from cr.forward, cr.jab, cr.strong, you could Super, which will be ridiculously huge damage.
at vega’s kara range, cr.lp after cr.mk will whiff a lot. so unless you are charging before hand, cr.mk to cr.mp is all you get. people usually tech when you inch forward, so to frame trap at kara range, moving forward will make them push a button, but that also means you can’t use cr.mk, cr.mp ex fba combos. i only use cr.mk after a st.lk when i know they are trying to walk back out of your kara range.
Why you guys think that its going to be any easier to do CH U2 in USF4?
The Ultra is now 3f faster. Ok.
But you are pretty much only using CH point blank now… which means it will hit in the first active frame.
Can you do it CH U2 in a real match consistently provided that you hit it meaty?
No? Well, in USF4 it will be 1f harder from a point blank CH.
And yeah, while this CH tweak actually makes it better, at the same time it makes it dumber.
Its a scrub friendly change. This is no bueno, guys.
There are some guys out there that if Claw got a “Press this to win the round” button they would be the happiest guys in the whole wide world.
But the thing here its to make Claw competitive. Not braindead.
Won’t you have 5frames less to charge CH->u2 now, since the total duration of the move went from 32f->27f?
It doesn’t help at all. If you were in recovery during the last 5 frames of CH or not… you are still charging for the Ultra. So it doesnt matter.
nevermind wrong info
I agree with Haztlan, CH-SC is hard enough to pull with when tried from a meaty CH, done against airborne opponents ; we probably won’t be able to pull it out from a grounded point blank.
However :
— CH–SC as a punish should do against grounded opponents from a reasonable range
— If CH-HKST is all we’ve got from point blank CH, that’s already a damaging meterless option, compared to regular whiffy cMK cMP EX-FBA frame traps.
=)
@Haztlan No what Traxus means is that because of the shorter CH there is less time to charge, meaning it might be harder to combo into a charge move with it.
@TriasNT Can’t you already CH-HKST? If you hit confirm you should always be able to get that, right? So the change to CH really doesn’t affect this.
I’m not really sure how much of a difference CH will make. If you always did CH when you knew it would hit, then you were going to get damage. The changes are basically there to make it usable as a pressure tool, IMO I think that’s wrong for a number of reasons, long start up, and so on, that you’re just asking for trouble using it that way. So the reality is we’re getting a nerfed CH on block, but a hit confirm will always be a hit confirm.
It will be harder to CH ST only if they took away frames of startup or changed the juggle after it. Otherwise it will be the same BnB as today.
Yeah what Haz said… it changes nothing in regards to Ultra
Something I want to test because if the hitbox it expanded upwards well have more time (since they’ll be hit higher and falling longer) and potentially actually be somewhat useful against some jumping normals
Well, if this is true: http://www.reddit.com/r/SF4/comments/1rrj5q/the_biggest_single_usf4_change_nobody_is_talking/
Then CH U2 will be another 1f easier.
my muscle memory combos…
Yea that extra frame to confirm/buffer is definitely going to help with ultra links. We might be seeing those a lot more in general.
Well, linking c.lp is going to be way easier, and the rest of his links really aren’t that hard, so overall I’m not really concerned about having to re-learn a bit for the benefit of easier jab chains.
So won’t people just find unblockables by delaying their unblockable by one frame?