This isn’t quite what I’m talking about. The Ryu thing is you hitting him above his cr.mk at the right distance.
Vega’s attacks have a lot of hurt box on them. The situation I am talking about is if Vega’s claw touches Cammy’s fist at the same time, Cammy wins. Clean. No trade, a straight up clean win. I thought for sure it would whiff since I was sure the tip has no hit or hurt box and I wasn’t all that close to begin with. I was using it to tease a bit, but my friend jabbed me instead. I’m like dude, fuck you, lol. The jab was out of range of her hurt boxes and I was only meaning to use it to do whatever, I had no idea her jab would beat mine clean some how. I wasn’t intending to hit above one of her attacks or anything. Plus, I was out of range of having my knee hit by a low kick attack, so I thought it was safe to whiff out.
His normals are ok but they are not godly. Having an extra frame for reliable combos would not make him OP at all. If they’re really concerned about keeping him at the right range and making him suck up close, then they should have extended the hit box to the tip of the claw so that we can stay at a ranged distance better. If his normals stuffed other character’s normals most of the time rather than trade or get hit, then yeah, I’d say having that kind of jab would be OP. But he doesn’t, and his jab isn’t, and a 2 frame link wouldn’t be.
reason i brought up the ryu thing is because ryu’s cr.mk will hit vega’s hurtbox when he’s extending out his cr.mp and either beats it clean or trades. so it’s definitely the same thing you’re talking about. i even took a look at it on pc with the hitbox overlay program. even if cammy hits you out of it, it’s just dumb luck and she can’t do anything about it to follow it up.
like i said many times, it’s not about having more reliable combos, it’s about hit confirming from a close distance. jab, walk, jab, walk, jab jab combo. this isn’t the style vega should be playing, he’s not a sakura. he’s like a prettier dhalsim. just because everyone can do it, doesn’t mean vega should be like everyone.
take a look at makoto, the best vega in the world, and watch how he goes by without using that link. he never uses it as a hitconfirm, yet he’s doing fine. he also never gets counter hitted out of his jabs, nor did he ever got spammed out of his offense. give him a +5 on hit with cr.lp, and he will go all aggro. it totally changes how one would play when you have such a tool at your disposal.
That’s all well and good, but Makoto, “the best Vega in the world” hasn’t won a major. He’s awesome, reactions and execution are on point, so why isn’t he using the jab combo? It’s unreliable. I saw Zeus lose their local tourney this week because he dropped a couple of those 1f jab links and got knocked down. As @Moonchilde was saying, giving an additional frame of hitstun would not make the move OP. The bad match ups wouldn’t amazingly shift into Vega’s favor, nor do his even/good matchups get better. It would just be a quality of life buff. As you stated, our worst matchups are against characters that avoid the footsies altogether, so being able to combo more effectively off of the footsies that we do land doesn’t make a dramatic swing. It just makes us able to do a bit more damage. We’ll still be a meter-dependent, defensive character that has to worry about accessories flying off while blocking everything properly after getting knocked down. It doesn’t change the way we play that drastically.
zeus plays a bit risky so he would use risky links like that, but not everyone plays like him. makoto hasn’t won a major because winning any japanese major would be way more difficult than winning an american tourney.
yes, i know it’s unreliable, that’s why i’m saying it was not meant to be used that way. makoto knows that and doesn’t use it. i hardly think this is a quality of life buff, this will give confidence in our ability to combo with it so we can play at a closer game. playing a closer game would change how he will be played.
imagine if ken’s st.lp to u2 was a 2 frame link, everyone will use that ultra instead since it would cost him no meter. this will change his meter management so he will dp fadc a lot more. these are hardly “quality of life buff”. 1 frame difference can change pretty drastically, you just can’t see it because you haven’t tested it yet. capcom has seen the beta tests and has seen every vega abusing that buff and that’s why they reverted it. if it really is a quality of life buff, it wouldn’t make that big of a deal to revert it
Capcom reverted Vega’s buffs because they literally have not wanted him good this generation.
It’s ridiculous how much you’re objecting to this and your argument is flimsy at BEST. He’s currently capable of the hit confirm already. Having it be a frame more lenient wouldn’t change Vega’s archetype somehow.
It’s also in line with how they allegedly want Claw played (more offensively.)
He wouldn’t be the only character dangerous at all those ranges, either, and in an edition that was SUPPOSED to make a lot of characters actually strong, and where Vegas old gimmicks from previous games will finally essentially not exist, I would be FINE with one more frame on cr.lp.
I will certainly get along without it, too, but seeing you fight against it with so much bs is a little bananas.
i fight because I don’t believe the intention of Capcom would purposely do this. i’m only here to justify why a company would possibly do this. saying Capcom is stupid, or wants x to be bad is just nonsense to me. you think consumer feedback is just there to LOOK like Capcom is doing work? they’ve seen people abusing it on the spot, it’s not theory fighting.
also it’s not a real hitconfirm when it’s not reliable.
hit confirm would mean if you tap someone, you can follow through the combo 100%. 1 frame unplinkable links have 60-80% CHANCE of success. this is why i don’t deem it as a legitimate hit confirm even if it IS possible.
you might say it won’t change how people will play if they get the buff, but based on beta tests, people were spamming it. i don’t mean be in one spot and pressing the button without fear, i’m talking about walking up cr.lp pressure and not need to care how close they are. try the playing the pc mod v1.0 without using the ex st buff at your local scene for a few hours and you’ll see you’ll play differently knowing you can hit confirm with cr.lp. sure capcom wants him to be more offensive, but they don’t want that type of offense. i guess the crossup and frame advantage on cl.mk was the type of offense they are looking for since they are less spammable.
yes, a lot of characters do have the same advantages in both close and mid range, but vega walk speed and long range hit confirms separates him from the other dudes.
My point is that this is a bad way to play Vega and still is when the jab link is still reliable. +1 just isn’t enough to cover you walking forward without eating a medium or fast fierce attack to the face. Especially not when your fastest moves are 4f at best. This just isn’t a good way to play Vega, even if your confirm was reliable. And as Prof said, the link is still possible and there are people who get it down like 80-90% anyways. The buff would not be OP and change how you play, it just makes the Vega players life easier.
I can understand not giving Vega an additional frame of hitstun on his cr.LP for fear that it’ll make Vega players more confident and less mindful of how he is suppose to be played, but that jab link is a real pain in the ass. If not for counterhits, I would have also listed it as a change I would have wanted to see during those weeks of feedbacks on the Unity forum.
Well, Capcom and combofiend are apparently trying to send the message that they want us to play Vega more offensive and crazy, hence the new crossup and the useless new FADC roll and the useless super buff. The QoL low jab buff would be just the thing, it’s not a real buff** but it would give the Vega players the confidence to actually use jab links without fear of a like ~10% chance of throwing the round.
But yea, it’s not happening so whatevs. Ever notice that Capcom has such a love-hate relationship with that fucking jab link buff? He never had it in SF4, then he suddenly has it in SFxT and he wasn’t remotely OP after people played the game for like a week, (far s.LK was his spammable walk up light attack of choice anyways, c.LP was a crouching move that you can blow right through with a tag launch if you were trying to pressure with it, god that game sucked) Capcom removed it anyways in the next patch, then almost brought it back for Ultra then chickened out again. Like seriously, if you don’t want us to link jabs, don’t let us link jabs at all.
**I guess you could argue that +5 low jab would let you link into s.LK, and c.MK on counterhit, but yea no that’s not why, they’re just terrified of Vega being good
Incidentally, people are currently playing the console version at the last major event. Some speculate that this is just a test version where everyone is running heavily nerfed, but it looks like the final to me. If anyone was at the London event or has footage of it you can see your final Vega version. It seems like Hugo had his s.HP armor removed too.
What kinda dumb response is that. yes 5 frames on hit will allow easy clp x 2> far s lk> cr hp or c. lp x 2>far s. lk>cr mp…but so what? now we have an option of weather or not to use bar for dmg or save the bar to use actually consider using red focus or super or that fadc shit they gave us.
Give the character some depth and stop with lame answers. They buff the shit out of rcf and cant see that we don’t have a solid combo to lead up to it…Arguing that our charge time is short is also shit cuz it cost a bar to actually use that short charge time…vega has no solid way to finish his combos with a simple special move and actually build meter like ALL of the cast…
I don’t know about u guys but I play on a game pad so I don’t have the select plink stick thing…and SUPRISE!! my miss rate to hit jab on the 1/60th of a second sweet spot three times in a row is a lot more than 10%…
If they want us to play more aggressive then give us some way of starting our RCF pressure… either give us a reliable combo where I can hit confirm into it or reduce the darn charge time so I will only need to get lucky with that 1 frame link once…
are u dense?..how de hell do u apply this jab walk pressure with +1 on block and a silly hit box…opponents can simply use their 3 frame better hitbox jab, back dash, use a move with I frames or simply jump de F$%* back…any sort of movement after jab puts u at 0 and with nothing faster that 4 frame start up then what??..
Anyways this is ure fight guys… Im on abel now and fishing for step kick is hysterical
Preach on Person-Man, when I picked up SFxTK Vega, I was literally giggling with how at how effortless my jabs were, I touch with a jab and I’m guaranteed a combo. This didn’t change the way I played Vega in the slightest, Claw is still Claw. IMHO, they should give us the jab or the iFrames, either one would be outstanding.
